Ladies, a reminder, please cover some things up.

[1still_waters]

Sometimes I wonder where you should draw the line. One cannot always run from temptations - they will catch up with him sooner or later. Honestly, I believe that it is up to the individual to decide what they want to wear for themselves. We are not the judge nor do we know on what basis to judge. What is 'lustful' for one man may hardly be worth a second glance for another. When the standards are relative, I think it is best if we look at our own selves and look to bring our body under subjection.

There is a certain subjective individual aspect to this issue. But I think we jump from the premise of "some of this is subjective" to the conclusion that "anything goes" or "why even try having some sort of reasonable objective standard". Then from that premise you end up with people walking around with major body parts showing.

There is a healthy objective reasonable standard in there somewhere, and we shouldn't allow a certain amount of subjectiveness to prevent us from having some sort of standard.

 

[1still_waters]

Yeah, I did that; and I was vilified. So why are you considered to be a man of God giving a kind reminder, and I'm labeled an angry feminist? It's the same action.

Well there are thousands of posts on this forum, and it's nearly impossible to know why people react to this one, at this point in time in a different way than they react to the other thousands that are on this forum.

 

[MissCris]

It's not at all unreasonable to request that ladies cover up all of their lady bits. The parts of us between our collar bones and our knee caps (or even mid-thigh, at least) are nobody's business and don't need to be displayed. Men know what's under our clothes *gasp* and some men have a hard time not thinking about it. Why not show a little compassion and respect- for ourselves as much as anyone else- and cover those parts properly?

I often find that women who wear very low-cut tops are the ones who complain the loudest that a man won't look her in the eye when he talks to her.

If a woman doesn't respect herself enough to keep her private parts private, it's awfully hypocritical for her to get angry when men don't respect her.

 

[DuchessAimee]

There is a certain subjective individual aspect to this issue. But I think we jump from the premise of "some of this is subjective" to the conclusion that "anything goes" or "why even try having some sort of reasonable objective standard". Then from that premise you end up with people walking around with major body parts showing.

There is a healthy objective reasonable standard in there somewhere, and we shouldn't allow a certain amount of subjectiveness to prevent us from having some sort of standard.

People like to pretend there are lots of gray areas in life, that most things are in the eye of the beholder. They say perception is reality, which basically means "my universe, my rules". However, personal perception isn't reality. Like you said, there are hard and fast rules for some things. The bible is quite clear about that.

 

[JesusChica1991]

Pfffff, I often have no problem with covering up. It's actually more comfortable for me anyways. I don't understand what this obsession is with showing off so much skin. I'm not saying that women are clearly responsible for antagonizing those temptations but as a sister in Christ, I think we can show each other mutual respect and help each other out whether we are men aiding for women or women being helpful aids for men. Sometimes, I leave the house with the mindset of thinking what I would wear to a gathering if I physically saw Jesus. Would he appreciate the cleavage that some women flaunt? Would he appreciate men showing off their undies because of sagging britches? Would he appreciate booty shorts that women like to wear? Personally, I think he would be somewhat disgusted if he saw me seeing that.

 

[Ugly]

Yeah, I did that; and I was vilified. So why are you considered to be a man of God giving a kind reminder, and I'm labeled an angry feminist? It's the same action.

For one you call yourself a feminist.
Second you often find small things to go on big rants about leaving the impression you're an angry person.
So... an admitted feminist who often turns innocent or well intended statements into telling someone they're gender bashing is going to leave people with that overall impression of you as an angry feminist.
That's my guess as to why.

 

[Misty77]

For one you call yourself a feminist.
Second you often find small things to go on big rants about leaving the impression you're an angry person.
So... an admitted feminist who often turns innocent or well intended statements into telling someone they're gender bashing is going to leave people with that overall impression of you as an angry feminist.
That's my guess as to why.

Then maybe what I'm trying to say is that I'm so deeply wounded by men for over 30 years feeling entitled to condemn me for being too slutty, too fat, too homely, or whatever else. I didn't start out a fighter; I was made into one in order to survive.

What I'm saying is please stop hurting me. Please just accept me and stop trying to judge me.

 

[violakat]

Modesty is something that as Christians we should strive for, if for nothing else then it's mentioned in the Bible frequently. Probably the most famous text comes from 1 Timothy 2:29 "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with modesty and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;" And while that doesn't specifically mention men, I think it could be applied to men as well.

Proverbs 7 also mentions women who dress like prostitutes coming after men with crafty intent, and in fact warns men to avoid women like this. Again, the reverse could also be applied.

Modesty is not something that is not just a man or woman issue but a God issue.

While most cultures differ in what they consider modest, the standard of covering certain areas of the body was already in place soon after the fall of man, when Adam and Eve both realized their nakedness and covered up. And what did they cover up, they very things that Stilly is mentioning here. In fact, you see in most cultures that is the very thing they do cover up. There are some, I think, that maybe not so rigid, such as some African or Native American cultures. But for the most part, you cover up.

There is a very simple test that I was taught early on by a fellow teacher when we were talking about dressing modestly. She said if you bend over and look into a mirror, what you see is what students will see. So if you don't want people seeing what you see, then cover it up. Simple as that. After doing this, if you are still unsure if you are modest enough ask someone you know you can trust to give you the truth. It might relieve your mind.

 

[1still_waters]

I think you are missing my point. By telling us to cover up, you are implying that we aren't. That is accusatory. And you have not pointed out particular offenders so it's kind of a blanket blame. Since modesty is a relative concept--and I do think that most of us would define ourselves as such--it is leaves us to wonder who or what you had in mind.

For example, you can see the straps to my sun dress in the silly pics thread. Do you consider that immodest? I am now having to wrack my brain to figure out if you are talking about me. Were any of my pics immodest? Did I accidentally show cleavage when I was on cam?

If there is a particular offender, then talk to her privately or have one of the female mods talk to her. Don't spread mass blame.

Think of the reverse scenario. I can't just come in and say that some men are guilty of an ambiguous but harmful sin that is causing the women to stumble, so all you need to be more careful. If I say anything close to that, I would be label bitter, crazy feminist, angry woman, etc. So why does a man feel entitled to scatter blame upon the women, many of whom he calls friends, and walk away with a stamp of piety?

On the other hand, I can understand why you may feel this way.
You're a user of a Christian forum, and you see a male admin making this post.
You might think, "A male admin making a post about this issue, maybe it's an issue on the site. Maybe I did something wrong."

I totally understand that type of reaction.
It's a reasonable reaction.

But if there were users doing things on mic/cam that needed addressing, more than likely they would be contacted individually.

My post was me being me, and not being admin-1still_waters addressing some over arching issue on site. But I totally understand how you could view it that way.

 

[Atwood]

IMHO:

OK Batman, you accuse women of dressing in an untoward fashion.
Topless nudity is increasing. I won't be surprised if in 10 years it becomes rather common.

Of course it is also quite possible that in 10 years the Rapture will have happened, & the USA will be nothing but a smoldering radiation pile. Nudity will probably continue round the world, with the exception of Islamic countries.
But I am no prophet.

 

[1still_waters]

IMHO:

OK Batman, you accuse women of dressing in an untoward fashion.
Topless nudity is increasing. I won't be surprised if in 10 years it becomes rather common.

Of course it is also quite possible that in 10 years the Rapture will have happened, & the USA will be nothing but a smoldering radiation pile. Nudity will probably continue round the world, with the exception of Islamic countries.
But I am no prophet.

In all seriousness, I see my USA becoming more and more like those tribes we used to see on National Geographic documentaries.

In those documentaries people walked around in the nude, had extreme piercings, extreme tattoos, and odd marriage situations. Yes I know it's a very broad brush stroke comparison.

The odd thing is, some of those tribes are now Christianized, and maybe they'll be sending missionaries to tribal USA in another 50 to 100 years.

 

[Misty77]

In all seriousness, I see my USA becoming more and more like those tribes we used to see on National Geographic documentaries.

In those documentaries people walked around in the nude, had extreme piercings, extreme tattoos, and odd marriage situations. Yes I know it's a very broad brush stroke comparison.

The odd thing is, some of those tribes are now Christianized, and maybe they'll be sending missionaries to tribal USA in another 50 to 100 years.

I think some of them already are. . .

 

[JesusChica1991]

Stilly, Idk if you are familiar with the Waodana tribes that Steve Saint worked with but I saw the amazing transition between the pre-missioned group and the post-missioned generation. I find nothing wrong with their huge piercings. In fact, I find them intriguing to look at...just nothing I would get for myself. BUT, there was a documentary about the group that marked the evolution from what they considered clothing to what they wear now.

 

[Pipp]

All I have to say is amen stilly and what is with the new fad of women of all shapes and sizes going out in public without a bra on. It is horribly indecent and not in the least bit attractive. I have noticed though that people are now dressing as much if not more for comfort than for looks. Moral of my story : LADIES DON'T GO IN PUBLIC WITH OUT YOUR UNDER CLOTHES ON !

You may now return to your regularly scheduled post reading.

 

[persNickety]

I dunno going out without a bra on isn't that bad, depends on many factors (size and choice of clothing), but when I gotta a bad back ache- screw it, I need comfort over function

 

[Loveneverfails]

I think the OP was nicely balanced. As a young woman I am not ashamed of having a female body. It's not an evil creation inherently designed to make men stumble. Female bodies are just as fearfully and wonderfully made as our male counterparts. Men and women alike are responsible for their own thought life.

BUT...I have no desire to show the entire world parts of my body that I consider "private". That's why they're private. I put forth effort to dress with dignity, while taking other things like location and occasion into context. I really think that's the best I can do.

 

[lil_christian]

Also...if the points made within the OP do not apply to you, then just simply disregard this thread and know that you and God are good in this area.

I'm not offended by this thread because A) I know stilly and his intentions. It's not to boss people around or tell people what they need to do and what not to do. He's just giving out a general, simple, loving reminder to those that aren't so careful to be careful with what you wear in pics and on cam. True, there are some that do not care, and it doesn't matter what you say or how you say it. They will dress however they please (it drives me nuts, but it's their life, not mine. All I can do is pray for them). Then there are some who don't realize what they wear inside their home is not always appropriate to the outside world. They're just going by what they've known and need to be told. Usually once they realized that the way they dress isn't the best, they usually change it.

B) I don't dress immodestly, on or offline, so it doesn't apply to me. I don't need to be upset by the fact that there ARE immodest women out there, even here on CC and that they DO need to be told to cover up. I have peace with God that I'm not one of those women. So I don't need to be upset. Even if I were, I'd pray, fix it, and move on. Still wouldn't need to be upset over something so painfully simple that's been made into a complex issue.


EDIT: Please know this isn't aimed towards anyone. It's just a general statement for someone that MIGHT get offended by this thread. There are always going to be a few that do get upset.

 

[Rachel20]

Once upon a time, I used to be among those people who would be offended when people would tell women how to dress.

After all, I am from a country like India where these things still happen-

Trinamool MP Tapas Pal's shocking rape threat: Will ask our boys to go and rape CPM women : North, News - India Today


As a young schoolgirl, even in a school uniform, there have been men who've been absolutely disgusting with their actions. In India, the tendency to blame women is always there. The onus is on the woman for dressing up and preventing ''lust'' and if anything happens, it's the girl's fault.

While some of you can grimace at how really ''primitive'' and ''regressive'', we might appear, I have to say I had a culture shock when I came to the United States.

Everywhere I turned, I saw women with absolutely skimpy clothes with little left for imagination and if I looked away, I would see a couple in an intimate, inappropriate embrace.

While I could appreciate these women for their confidence - it's like cellulite be darned, these women have no qualms losing their clothes, I don't.

I feel guilty right now, because I know for certain, that I speak to a few people from this very site and I have been vocal about my adventures and funny stories of my encounters with skimpy women.

I've mostly been amused and a little repulsed to be honest.

However, if I as a woman, feel that some of the clothes worn is to the point of indecency, I wonder how men would feel about it. Straight, heterosexual men.

I LOATHE it when any man looks at me in a way that is improper or gaze for too long. I've experienced it so many times, while fully covered that I would vomit on a man who does that.

What my mind can't comprehend is don't these women feel anything? They probably appreciate and want men to gaze at them in that manner.
They've probably been conditioned to think that this is what is attractive, this is what is beautiful.

But as old Indian grandmas say (I can't believe I am referring to them), men just like the women that come easy for a short while but want to be with the one that isn't.

That is hypocrisy.

Like it or not most men themselves are shallow.

Ask a man what he looks for in a woman - is it looks or the heart, and if it were a mutually exclusive set, would he choose beauty over the mind? You'll be surprised what's in their heart of hearts.

Maybe there are men who don't care about these things, but they are a minority.

Let's just be honest with ourselves about everything. Don't blame just the women. Blame the society. Blame the other gender as well.

So while India might have its share of disgusting attitudes towards women, the west has its share of disgusting attire.

Maybe though, as Christians, we can find our own identity and dress modestly all the time. Maybe after a point of time, it will be our mark of distinction.

So what if everyone wears bum shorts? I think long maxi dresses or wraparound skirts, or printed skirts to your knees can be worn with flair. Fashion is all about expressive ideas and a unique identity stands out among a herd.

Less is more, doesn't really apply to clothes.

And unlike my grandma, I would like to say this, keep it classy, not trashy

 

[Fenner]

Lately a topic of discussion in my house has been modesty. My Daughter will be 8 soon and my Son 9. We have seen a lot of poor choices in clothing this summer. We go to an amusement park pretty close to our house on a regular basis. It's sort of our summer thing, we don't travel a lot, so we get season passes and do stuff there.

Memorial Day we went, it was a sight to be seen. Women in very short dresses, super high heels, one woman you could see the bottom of her breasts because her shirt was cut so short. These slits up the sides of dresses, you could see underwear. My daughter was asking some questions because she doesn't see me dress like that. I wouldn't. For one, it's a park with rides and you're more than likely going to be picking cotton candy out of your clothes at the end of the day. You're walking around in a FAMILY park, it's not a night club. Comfortable shoes, shorts that don't show your butt and shirts that cover you.

Not to much to ask. I've told my children, no it's not appropriate to dress like that, even if you are going out to a night club. When you can bend over and the world can see what they shouldn't, no not appropriate. I've emailed the park twice this year complaining that their modesty rule isn't being followed and there is nothing done about it. Maybe I sound like an old pilgrim, but to bad. I don't want to see your goods. I don't want my kids to see your goods. Wear appropriate clothing period.

 

[Fenner]

I haven't seen any inappropriate pictures or dress on CC, just for the record.