Why and How Single Christian Women Should Start Pursuing Men

[Misty77]

Ruth didn't have to show interest for Boaz to start pursuing. She had to respond to the pursuit in order for marriage to happen, but that is what courtship is all about.

I am always impressed with your passion and how well thought-out your ideas are, even the ones I don't share.

I used to understand the Book of Ruth the same way as you. I highly recommend The Gospel of Ruth by Carolyn Custis James who offers amazing insight into the culture and traditions of the times. It's too long and involved to try to explain it here. The main point being that Ruth was a little more bold than you might think. The whole book is really the story of Noami's redemption, which is emphasized by beginning and ending the story with her—a Hebrew literary device called bracketing. Carolyn's book made sense of the more curious parts of the story.

 

[mystdancer50]

I am always impressed with your passion and how well thought-out your ideas are, even the ones I don't share.

I used to understand the Book of Ruth the same way as you. I highly recommend The Gospel of Ruth by Carolyn Custis James who offers amazing insight into the culture and traditions of the times. It's too long and involved to try to explain it here. The main point being that Ruth was a little more bold than you might think. The whole book is really the story of Noami's redemption, which is emphasized by beginning and ending the story with her—a Hebrew literary device called bracketing. Carolyn's book made sense of the more curious parts of the story.

Firstly, thanks.

Secondly, yes, she was bold, AFTER Boaz showed interest in her. The Bible states it plainly enough. I don't need to read a woman's thoughts on it, as her book was written and researched through her filters. Ruth did not seek out Boaz until he had first obviously shown his interest in her and Naomi learned of it and told Ruth how to respond.

Thirdly, yes, it is about Naomi. Ruth was only blessed due to God wanting to restore Naomi and Ruth abandoning her culture's gods allowed her to be blessed and to be a blessing in return.

 

[Relena7]

This would all be well and good if Ruth had, in fact, been the one to initiate the friendship, but she wasn't. Boaz noticed her, asked about her, cared for her and when Ruth told her mother in law, Naomi then told Ruth that Boaz was the kinsman redeemer and told Ruth what to do and then Ruth obeyed her mother in law. Ruth did not pursue Boaz first. Boaz pursued Ruth and then Ruth responded to that pursuit.

Different culture, different time. It is just how things were done back in those days and in that part of the world. They don't represent the ultimate morals of everything. Cultures back then had flaws too, just like ours does, I'm sure.

 

[mystdancer50]

Different culture, different time. It is just how things were done back in those days and in that part of the world. They don't represent the ultimate morals of everything. Cultures back then had flaws too, just like ours does, I'm sure.

God and His Word and, yes, the morality therein are still relevant, regardless.

And, the point of the Ruth discussion is that the man in the video is using Ruth to justify his belief that women should initiate and pursue a relationship with men on a "friendship" level because that is what Ruth did with Boaz, which, when reading God's Word, we plainly see that it is Boaz that initiates all initial contacts, making the man's point void.

 

[Liamson]

Aside from trying to justify an objective position, by pulling out scriptures that seem to correlate loosely with a man's authority and leadership, why can't a woman befriend me or approach me?


Is there some mechanism within women that says, that says, I should never reach out to a man that I admire?


I would be okay with the concept of a man doing everything in a relationship, IF there was a logical reason why women can take no initiative.




Boaz was being a NICE GUY (CH.2) ; (See: Nice Guy threads)

Ruth Chose to sleep at Boaz' feet.

It was Ruth who took Romantic initiative.

If anything it could almost be argued that Boaz married Ruth for Naomi's land. But that is another story for another time.




My issue with all of this is not the initiative even, Its the reciprocation.

In Christian culture women are taught that men lead, men take initiative and men provide for the relationship. What the practical application of this translates into looks much like men doing everything.

When I initiate a romantic foray, the expectation is that, if there is interest a sort of mutual investment should occur. I should not have to spearhead any and all relationship progress. My willingness to show up with flowers, create exciting dates or simply express the idea that "I like you" should be reciprocated if there is interest. Not simply in a "Me too" fashion but in a way that says, I really do.

In christian circles, I have always been the only one who goes out of his way to surprise, organize and communicate intentions and expectations. The expectation is that I will simply keep doing what I'm doing without expectation for anything in return, because I have control of the relationship. And eventually, when I cut them off and let them go, they wonder what happened or what went wrong. They wonder why I don't bring flowers, coffee, lunch, tickets, or candy to work anymore.

I realized that its not a relationship, for them its more like an entitlement.


I wish romantic relationships were more like friendships in christian circles. Less formality, intentionality and obligation. I want someone to come over, not because I told them to or because its expected of them, but because they want to. I want to be with someone who can take initiative and doesn't need to be prompted or insulated from taking any chances of their own.


Ruth took a chance on a nice guy, who was a good man. Even if it was by simply taking the initiative to repay his kindness with love, it was more than we see in today's culture.

 

[thebelievernchrist]

I think you answered your own question. love....you say these things of love on-line. right. then just let your heart speak....its not man nor women you have to pls. it's the father....so relax and say all the beautiful thi gs that come flowing out of you heart.

 

[thebelievernchrist]

god .made you who you are and he doesn't make mistakes..

 

[OGM]

You make some very good points Liamson. Besides times change...we now have women leading some of the Fortune 500 corporations. They are natural born leaders that don't tend to take a passive role in any aspects of their lives...including marriage.

As of 2012, I believe the Unied States Army had around 21 female generals. A lot has changed in the past 2000 years.

 

[mystdancer50]

Has God changed? Has His Word changed? We are not called to be like the world and its compromises, but to be sanctified, set apart, like God, following His way and design.

 

[Liamson]

You make some very good points Liamson. Besides times change...we now have women leading some of the Fortune 500 corporations. They are natural born leaders that don't tend to take a passive role in any aspects of their lives...including marriage.

As of 2012, I believe the Unied States Army had around 21 female generals. A lot has changed in the past 2000 years.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Seriously...get real. I will be alone as long as I want to, no man is gonna convince me otherwise.I am a good woman and I always been loyal but I always get treated badly so i am not taking the chance anymore. Men can be my friend. I hate relationships and just because I am a single good female does not mean I need to run out looking for a man. I am not sure how you want to interpret proverbs 18:22. Sure I will be his friend but I am not going to love a man again and I do NOT want men falling for me. they always do and it ruins the friendship.

Hi there ma'am, I am sorry to hear that. It is unfortunate to hear that you have always been treated badly. The truth of the matter is that not everyone who says that they are a Christian really are.

For a relationship to work, both parties (man and woman) need to work at the relationship. And both man and woman should be equally yoked. They should both truly be Christians. And their relationship should be based on the word of God.

What a Christian man needs to do is make sure that the Christian woman he is interested in and is pursuing is one who fears the Lord and loves Him and His word.

And a Christian woman should make sure that the Christian man that is pursuing her is truly a Christian. And that he loves the Lord Jesus Christ and His holy word.

 

[AsifinPassing]

I really feel un-offended either way. Who cares who initiates?

 

[wisebeardman]

idk about others. but IMO. I would have better luck playing chicken with a train and winning then chasing after some woman. at least with the train I have a chance at victory.

 

[Praus]

As of 2012, I believe the Unied States Army had around 21 female generals.

That way when bad things happen we can blame the woman instead of the actual responsible parties-> Janis Karpinski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A lot has changed in the past 2000 years.

Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

 

[KJV15John11]

idk about others. but IMO. I would have better luck playing chicken with a train and winning then chasing after some woman. at least with the train I have a chance at victory.

Huh, Ive had some interactions with women that was like getting run over by a train. I'd say it's even money.

 

[Chey60]

Any man you have to chase you so have to make the first moves always.. Not Gods order. I don't need a relationship that badly.

 

[Descyple]

The only thing a woman has to do to pursue me is to throw a loaf of bread at me that has each individual slice covered in Nutella!!! I would marry her on the spot.

Special note - whole wheat bread is preferred!!! It's healthier!!!

 

[Chey60]

Aside from trying to justify an objective position, by pulling out scriptures that seem to correlate loosely with a man's authority and leadership, why can't a woman befriend me or approach me?


Is there some mechanism within women that says, that says, I should never reach out to a man that I admire?


I would be okay with the concept of a man doing everything in a relationship, IF there was a logical reason why women can take no initiative.




Boaz was being a NICE GUY (CH.2) ; (See: Nice Guy threads)

Ruth Chose to sleep at Boaz' feet.

It was Ruth who took Romantic initiative.

If anything it could almost be argued that Boaz married Ruth for Naomi's land. But that is another story for another time.




My issue with all of this is not the initiative even, Its the reciprocation.

In Christian culture women are taught that men lead, men take initiative and men provide for the relationship. What the practical application of this translates into looks much like men doing everything.

When I initiate a romantic foray, the expectation is that, if there is interest a sort of mutual investment should occur. I should not have to spearhead any and all relationship progress. My willingness to show up with flowers, create exciting dates or simply express the idea that "I like you" should be reciprocated if there is interest. Not simply in a "Me too" fashion but in a way that says, I really do.

In christian circles, I have always been the only one who goes out of his way to surprise, organize and communicate intentions and expectations. The expectation is that I will simply keep doing what I'm doing without expectation for anything in return, because I have control of the relationship. And eventually, when I cut them off and let them go, they wonder what happened or what went wrong. They wonder why I don't bring flowers, coffee, lunch, tickets, or candy to work anymore.

I realized that its not a relationship, for them its more like an entitlement.


I wish romantic relationships were more like friendships in christian circles. Less formality, intentionality and obligation. I want someone to come over, not because I told them to or because its expected of them, but because they want to. I want to be with someone who can take initiative and doesn't need to be prompted or insulated from taking any chances of their own.


Ruth took a chance on a nice guy, who was a good man. Even if it was by simply taking the initiative to repay his kindness with love, it was more than we see in today's culture.

Liamson.. gosh there is so much wrong with this message..sorry don't mean to be a debbie downer but let's get the bible story straight first..

Ruth laying near Boaz's feet wasn't necessarily a romantic gesture...it was more a gesture of ownership.
It was custom in that day for the next of kin of her husband to have dibs per se.. but she was letting Boaz know that he actually had dibs in her eyes to marry her..
instead of her next of kin. She was doing what today would be called letting the man who was already interested in her know she was interested back.. Boaz was more than likely interested in Ruth romantically but because he was not in line for her hand he could not pursue in that way so he just did the next best thing and made sure she and Naomi were provided for.
So you have all that wrong..
Also let's talk about your circles you say are the christian circles you heard of..really I am not sure what circles you have run in but they sound more square..

Nowhere in any scripture or marriage teaching that I have heard in my entire christian life has their been a teaching that said men initiated everything.. Pursuit of a marriage partner? Leading the home? yes.. and there is good reason for this...
here's why.
Do you remember the garden??
Do you remember when Eve was talking to the serpent?
where was Adam? oh yes,..he was right there... probably listening eating some popcorn..while this serpent enticed and deceived his wife.. and then it says Adam rushed to her defense and took the serpent by the (whatever the serpent had back then) and cast him out of the garden thus saving the day and become the woman's defender and protector..
oh wait.. scratch that..reverse it..
that didn't happen did it? no.. he sat there and allowed this serpent to to do these things and said nothing and did nothing..pure laziness... (apparently man's inherit nature as we gather from this telling)..
so then Eve, tells Adam to take the fruit that God told them not to eat and he says "..uh.. OK".. and eats it..
then not only does he NOT take the blame, make the sacrifice etc.. he points his finger at his wife throwing her under the bus.."LORD IT WAS THE WOMAN YOU GAVE ME" oh yea also blaming God for having given a defective woman to him..
sigh..
so remember God curses the woman and the man saying that because woman's desire is for you (which btw means to control..the same desire is in the same book when God tells Cain "sin's desire is for you but you must rule over it"...)
but you must rule over her.. and of course when Jesus comes that ruling turns into leading, protecting, cherishing , covering and loving..
hence.. men as leaders.. men as pursuers.. God wants them to step it up and do what they just didn't do in the garden..

but see..it doesn't end there..
who said that women couldn't take initiative once the relationship begins.. if man and woman are to show love to one another?? then they would serve one another and in serving maybe the woman would sometime call the guy, text him or say hey you wanna go here? and once married.. why couldn't she initiate intimacy or prayer or anything else.. and why wouldn't she if she saw her husband do something ungodly not just win him without a word but lovingly reprove him if the case called for it and it was not disrespectful? and why couldn't she discuss things with him, decisions needing to be made so that maybe he could get to make a even more informed decisions because she has something to offer that he might not have thought of..?

So, all you have to do is pray to God that he places a woman that is right for you in front of you, or two or three..
choose which one you fancy, and pray that she responds..if she does, you win her heart..you have found a good thing and you can both initiate to your hearts content, with you being her covering, protector, provider and lover..

 

[Liamson]

Liamson.. gosh there is so much wrong with this message..sorry don't mean to be a debbie downer but let's get the bible story straight first..

Ruth laying near Boaz's feet wasn't necessarily a romantic gesture...it was more a gesture of ownership.
It was custom in that day for the next of kin of her husband to have dibs per se.. but she was letting Boaz know that he actually had dibs in her eyes to marry her..
instead of her next of kin. She was doing what today would be called letting the man who was already interested in her know she was interested back.. Boaz was more than likely interested in Ruth romantically but because he was not in line for her hand he could not pursue in that way so he just did the next best thing and made sure she and Naomi were provided for.
So you have all that wrong..
Also let's talk about your circles you say are the christian circles you heard of..really I am not sure what circles you have run in but they sound more square..

Nowhere in any scripture or marriage teaching that I have heard in my entire christian life has their been a teaching that said men initiated everything.. Pursuit of a marriage partner? Leading the home? yes.. and there is good reason for this...
here's why.
Do you remember the garden??
Do you remember when Eve was talking to the serpent?
where was Adam? oh yes,..he was right there... probably listening eating some popcorn..while this serpent enticed and deceived his wife.. and then it says Adam rushed to her defense and took the serpent by the (whatever the serpent had back then) and cast him out of the garden thus saving the day and become the woman's defender and protector..
oh wait.. scratch that..reverse it..
that didn't happen did it? no.. he sat there and allowed this serpent to to do these things and said nothing and did nothing..pure laziness... (apparently man's inherit nature as we gather from this telling)..
so then Eve, tells Adam to take the fruit that God told them not to eat and he says "..uh.. OK".. and eats it..
then not only does he NOT take the blame, make the sacrifice etc.. he points his finger at his wife throwing her under the bus.."LORD IT WAS THE WOMAN YOU GAVE ME" oh yea also blaming God for having given a defective woman to him..
sigh..
so remember God curses the woman and the man saying that because woman's desire is for you (which btw means to control..the same desire is in the same book when God tells Cain "sin's desire is for you but you must rule over it"...)
but you must rule over her.. and of course when Jesus comes that ruling turns into leading, protecting, cherishing , covering and loving..
hence.. men as leaders.. men as pursuers.. God wants them to step it up and do what they just didn't do in the garden..

but see..it doesn't end there..
who said that women couldn't take initiative once the relationship begins.. if man and woman are to show love to one another?? then they would serve one another and in serving maybe the woman would sometime call the guy, text him or say hey you wanna go here? and once married.. why couldn't she initiate intimacy or prayer or anything else.. and why wouldn't she if she saw her husband do something ungodly not just win him without a word but lovingly reprove him if the case called for it and it was not disrespectful? and why couldn't she discuss things with him, decisions needing to be made so that maybe he could get to make a even more informed decisions because she has something to offer that he might not have thought of..?

So, all you have to do is pray to God that he places a woman that is right for you in front of you, or two or three..
choose which one you fancy, and pray that she responds..if she does, you win her heart..you have found a good thing and you can both initiate to your hearts content, with you being her covering, protector, provider and lover..

Its a cultural thing here locally in Idaho. For men to simply take a woman by the hand and lead them from first meeting all the way to the finish line. And it sort of leaves women on Autopilot. Also labels are big here too. So is the formality of dating. But its odd because, it sucks all of the life out of it. If I haven't said something or done something, people think there is something wrong. And honestly, there is but, I can't inspire someone to be spontaneous, creative, inventive, or adventurous. They have to believe in it for themselves. Here they have books and stuff to back it up, they pull out passages about how a man should chase a woman. Which that is all fine and good, I just don't know how I'm ever going to fall in love with someone from here.

I say this because, I didn't start dating when I lived here in Idaho. I started dating in Florida. The Christian subculture for dating there was very different. I spend the better part of every weekend and most evenings I had with one woman. Our response to when people asked if we were dating was usually something like, "You ask too many questions." The relationship grew naturally as trust grew. It was innocent too. There was no, "Well this is the third date... should I kiss her?" Or even the popular, "We are never going to kiss until we exchange vows." We were like a lot like children, who know each other's parents well enough to invite ourselves into one another's house. And it was the essence of that, a child like playfulness, enthusiasm, and curiosity that kept us together. Valentines Day 2005, who gets the biggest Bouquet of flowers in the whole hospital I worked in? I did. (^_^) The most electrifying feeling in the world was walking back to the car from Disney World and grasping her hand in mine, knowing that right there in that moment, everything was perfect.

Since dating the 2 women I did when I lived there, here in Idaho, I have only been on the giving end of romantic gestures. Dates are sterile interviews over coffee about life goals and expectations, followed by movies. Multiply this times 2-3 months, add going to church and bible studies and that is the way the cookie crumbles. Whatever happens happens because I made it happen, until I simply can't imagine spending another moment wasting someone else's time or robbing them of the time they could be spending with someone who could receive the love they have to share. Meanwhile, my expressions, gifts and ideas go completely unnoticed, or are simply incomprehensible. Until eventually, I grow weary of trying to build a house I don't want to live in. So I let them go.

Frankly, due to my interpretation of the Song of Solomon, I don't consent to dragging someone to the altar through some sort of romantic coercion.

The Song of Solomon

I don't want to find "a wife" or "a woman suitable for marriage" so that I might fulfill my social obligation and bear children.

I want to find a woman who will be my favorite human being in the whole wide world. I want us to fall in love and never be parted. I want to be captivated by her thoughts, her imagination, her beauty, her curiosity, and her wisdom. I want to write to her. I want to sing about her. I want to dance at the thought of who she is to me. I want to run with her. I want to swim beside her. I want to challenge her. I want to learn from her. I want to laugh until we think we pass out. I want to cry, until there are no more tears left. I want to live out the rest of my days, not bound by anything greater than the love we have for each other.

If she is as common as you suggest, than I am blind, deaf, immune to her charms, and utterly oblivious.

 

[Rockbysea]

Firstly, thanks.

Secondly, yes, she was bold, AFTER Boaz showed interest in her. The Bible states it plainly enough. .... Ruth did not seek out Boaz until he had first obviously shown his interest in her and Naomi learned of it and told Ruth how to respond.

The interest Boaz initially had in Ruth was not a romantic one. It’s stated that Ruth found favor in the eyes of Boaz because he received reports about her loyalty to Naomi, a close relative. Ruth 2: 10-13

Then later it was Naomi that instructed Ruth on a strategy to let Boaz know that she’s interested. So Ruth must have been interested first in Boaz otherwise she would not have cooperated with Naomi’s plan. And Boaz’s response to her advances was one of surprise because she didn’t go after the younger men. So his initial interest was not romantic because he believed that she would consider him to be too old for her. Ruth had to use Naomi’s bold strategy to go after Boaz to get his romantic interest.