Why most Christians are going to hell?

[Lanolin]

I think a person can be self deceived into believing they are born again when they are not. I don't want to be self deceived.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

this is where you actually need to DO what Gods will is for you.
if you have a genuine relationship with Him then you will know exactly what that is.

Jesus had just spoken from chapter 5 the many things God wants believers to do and how to act. Its not just driving out demons and performing miracles. Thats only the start of it!

 

[crossnote]

I think a person can be self deceived into believing they are born again when they are not. I don't want to be self deceived.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I was referring to those who have actually been born again...they will know it.

As far as that passage from Matt 7 goes, those people were not trusting in Christ alone, but rather in their 'good works'...‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

 

[Seeking-Christ]

I was referring to those who have actually been born again...they will know it.

As far as that passage from Matt 7 goes, those people were not trusting in Christ alone, but rather in their 'good works'...‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

How do you know that they didn't think that they were born again? And then doing good works?

James 2:14-26

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

 

[crossnote]

How do you know that they didn't think that they were born again? And then doing good works?

James 2:14-26

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Being born again has little to do with faith/works as it has more to do with a new heart, new desires and a new perspective in seiing things.

(Jer 31:33) “Instead, this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days”—the LORD’s declaration. “I will put my teaching within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
(Jer 31:34) No longer will one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them”—this is the LORD’s declaration. “For I will forgive their iniquity and never again remember their sin.

(2Co 5:17) Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, and see, the new has come!

(1Co 2:12) Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God.
(1Co 2:13) We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
(1Co 2:14) But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.

 

[Gideon300]

This, I am not too sure about. I mean, I certainly wish people who are far from perfect or who have faith issues/questions go to Heaven. However, I have heard teachings such as if you don't bear the cross, you won't go to Heaven, etc.

There are two salvations. The first is instant, irrevocable and has nothing to do with us. It's God's business. All we have to do is accept God's gracious gift of life through the sacrifice of Jesus, His death and resurrection. If we do this from the heart, not just a mental exercise, we will be born again. Then God begins the process of the second salvation. Because this is rarely taught, there is a great deal of regrettable confusion.

The second salvation is the salvation of the soul. Being born again means to receive a new spirit. We are made alive when before we were dead. The soul is basically mind, emotion and will. Before we were saved, all we had to go by was the soul. The spirit part of us was dead to God, even though it still existed. You can see the operation of the human spirit in young children. Very often they go by intuition. They may take a dislike to someone for no apparent reason. Yet their dislike turns out to be warranted. This happened in my family. My parents became friends with a man to the point where they wanted us to call him "uncle". All four of us kids revolted. The man turned out to be a user, a real jerk. We had no logical reason, we just knew.

When we are saved, we still have the habit and memories that parents, educators and the world impose upon us. We are programmed to be independent, pride is supposedly a good quality and rebellion (especially in this era) is admirable. Those characteristics are in opposition to God's ways. We need to depend entirely on Him, we need to humble ourselves and rebellion is as bad as witchcraft.

Carrying the cross means that we deny self will in favour of God's will. Sometimes this is really hard. I had to let go of my children, which was like a sword piercing my soul. Yet I had peace after I made the right decision. We do not see things as God does. He knows what is the very best for us. The more we allow the cross to work, the less the soul has the strength to resist God's will.

Some Christians cling to self and do not allow God to work. Others realise how self is the inner enemy that must be resisted.

Most Christians obsess over sin. There is a far more subtle enemy, one that can appear to be righteous but in reality is opposed to God. Jesus rebuked Peter. Peter wanted to spare Jesus from the cross. How "noble"! But how wrong. Peter's good intentions were in exact opposition to God's will. The question is never, "Is this a good thing?" It is always, "Is this a God thing?"

We will receive rewards from God according to the degree that we cooperate with Him in this life. This life is all we have to prepare us for the next. The wise person is willing to forsake pleasing self in order to gain rewards in the next. Our eternal security is assured. Our rewards and placement in heaven are not.

 

[crossnote]

There are two salvations. The first is instant, irrevocable and has nothing to do with us. It's God's business. All we have to do is accept God's gracious gift of life through the sacrifice of Jesus, His death and resurrection. If we do this from the heart, not just a mental exercise, we will be born again. Then God begins the process of the second salvation. Because this is rarely taught, there is a great deal of regrettable confusion.

The second salvation is the salvation of the soul. Being born again means to receive a new spirit. We are made alive when before we were dead. The soul is basically mind, emotion and will. Before we were saved, all we had to go by was the soul. The spirit part of us was dead to God, even though it still existed. You can see the operation of the human spirit in young children. Very often they go by intuition. They may take a dislike to someone for no apparent reason. Yet their dislike turns out to be warranted. This happened in my family. My parents became friends with a man to the point where they wanted us to call him "uncle". All four of us kids revolted. The man turned out to be a user, a real jerk. We had no logical reason, we just knew.

When we are saved, we still have the habit and memories that parents, educators and the world impose upon us. We are programmed to be independent, pride is supposedly a good quality and rebellion (especially in this era) is admirable. Those characteristics are in opposition to God's ways. We need to depend entirely on Him, we need to humble ourselves and rebellion is as bad as witchcraft.

Carrying the cross means that we deny self will in favour of God's will. Sometimes this is really hard. I had to let go of my children, which was like a sword piercing my soul. Yet I had peace after I made the right decision. We do not see things as God does. He knows what is the very best for us. The more we allow the cross to work, the less the soul has the strength to resist God's will.

Some Christians cling to self and do not allow God to work. Others realise how self is the inner enemy that must be resisted.

Most Christians obsess over sin. There is a far more subtle enemy, one that can appear to be righteous but in reality is opposed to God. Jesus rebuked Peter. Peter wanted to spare Jesus from the cross. How "noble"! But how wrong. Peter's good intentions were in exact opposition to God's will. The question is never, "Is this a good thing?" It is always, "Is this a God thing?"

We will receive rewards from God according to the degree that we cooperate with Him in this life. This life is all we have to prepare us for the next. The wise person is willing to forsake pleasing self in order to gain rewards in the next. Our eternal security is assured. Our rewards and placement in heaven are not.

Do you have any Scriptural backing for this theory of yours? Or are you speaking of justification (1st) and sanctification (2nd)?

 

[Gideon300]

Do you have any Scriptural backing for this theory of yours? Or are you speaking of justification (1st) and sanctification (2nd)?

God's people are still being destroyed for lack of knowledge..........

1 Peter 1:8 & 9
Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy, now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

James 1:21
Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save your souls.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are spirit beings that have a soul and inhabit a body. To be born again is to have a new, live spirit where Jesus is pleased to dwell. He will not dwell in a dead spirit, which is why "invite Jesus into your heart" is not the real gospel. The soul is not instantly transformed. It is a process that takes a lifetime. The body will be transformed at our physical death or when Jesus returns to take us home.

This is the very much simplified version. Change the word "save" to "deliver" and you will get a much better picture of what the salvation of the soul means in practice. It is Luke 4:18 in action.

And this is not my theory. I first came across this teaching around 45 years ago. God has been working it into my life since the day I was born again. Progressive sanctification is something that Baptists teach. Oddly, at least some of them reject the idea of the salvation of the soul. Since that phrase is in God's word, unlike "progressive sanctification", I don't understand their problem. Perhaps its a throwback to times when they believed that soul and spirit are the same thing.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

There are many Bible verses that tell us to flee from sexual immorality and pray for God's Grace and Power to overcome it totally. It is a battle, of course, but remember there is a crown in Heaven (cf. Rev 2:10) as a reward waiting for those who overcome, as the Lord promised. Keep praying, keep striving, and don't allow any impure images in any setting near you. By God's Grace, you will overcome it.

1 Corinthians 6:18

Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.

1 Corinthians 7:2

But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

Ephesians 5:3

But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;

1 Corinthians 6:13

Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body.

1 Thessalonians 4:3

For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;

 

[Lanolin]

There are lots of books in the church library about the issue, especially for men, that could help as its probably NOT something that men find that easy to talk about amongst themselves.
Wheres women can talk about such things, or anything really...or do find it easier

Once in the open, not a secret, there is less shame.

Whether its has stemmed from molestation or abuse, or some sort of affair (how many people keep such things secret? )

If we confess our sins He is just and faithful to forgive our sins and He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Rememeber the woman caught in adultery, It wasnt just HER sin, it was also the sin of the men throwing stones at her. Jesus didnt condemn her. He forgave her and said to her go, sin no more.
He wouldnt have said that to her if he didnt believe she could stop sinning.

He gave her grace. This is what God gives us.

 

[Live4Him3]

I was referring to those who have actually been born again...they will know it.

As far as that passage from Matt 7 goes, those people were not trusting in Christ alone, but rather in their 'good works'...‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

It never ceases to boggle my mind when people make such claims as this.

"Good works" had absolutely nothing to do with these people's problems.

Here was their real problem:

Matthew chapter 7

[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
[28] And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
[29] For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Far from allegedly trusting in their good works, these people were WORKERS OF INIQUITY (vs. 23).

"Iniquity" literally means "inequity" or that their ways were "unequal" with God's ways.

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=iniquity

iniquity (n.)

c. 1300, "hostility, malevolence; a hostile action," from Old French iniquité, iniquiteit "wickedness; unfavorable situation" (12c.), from Latin iniquitatem (nominative iniquitas) "unequalness, unevenness," figuratively "unfavorableness, unfairness, injustice," noun of quality from iniquus "unjust, unequal; slanting, steep," from in- "not" (see in- (1)) + aequus "just, equal" (see equal (adj.)).

And how were their ways unequal with God's ways?

They were unequal in that they claimed to be good trees, yet they were bringing forth evil fruit.

They were unequal in that they called Jesus "Lord", yet they weren't doing the will of his Father in heaven.

They were unequal in that they heard Jesus' sayings and didn't do them.

If such is true, AND IT IS, then how were they able to prophesy in Christ's name, to cast out devils/demons in Christ's name, and to do many wonderful works in Christ's name?

The answer is found in the word "wonderful".

The underlying Greek word which is here translated into English as "wonderful" is "dynamis", and this is the same exact word that Jesus used to describe the "power" (Acts 1:8) which the disciples were endued with from on high on the day of Pentecost.

My point?

One can have a GIFT of the Spirit and function in it, yet not be bringing forth any of the FRUITS of the Spirit in that they are a WORKER OF INIQUITY.

Judas Iscariot, for example, immediately comes to mind. Judas cast out devils/demons and healed the sick, and Jesus said of him that it would have been better for him if he had never been born.

Anyhow, seeing how Christ is the vine, AND HE'S A GOOD VINE, if we're truly branches which are attached to this vine, then we should be bringing forth good fruit. Again, as Jesus said, "You shall know them by their FRUITS"...and NOT their gifts.


"

 

[Lanolin]

False prophets..wolves
many charistmatic preachers have turned out to be workers of iniquity. Jim Jones comes to mind, initially using his position in churches to appeal to people with healings and such, and 'social justice' type programs. But it turned out he was a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Many people did not get out till it was too late.
As far as I know, he never dealt with sin problems in his churches. He was all about brotherly love and getting the poor out of poverty and racial integration which was the hot topic at the time. But it turned out he had many wives, concubines and got into drugs and homosexuality as well.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

There are lots of books in the church library about the issue, especially for men, that could help as its probably NOT something that men find that easy to talk about amongst themselves.

I don't think men have a hard time talking about it. At least not in my experience. But there have been a lot of books written about it because it's a hard subject to wrap one's brain around it....

This is an excerpt from a blog that I was trying to write, and then decided not to post.

In my online travels, and podcast listening. I heard that sex is one of the very top things that causes people to walk away from God. I feel that I can completely understand why. We got a God who created sex, gave men a strong sex drive, calls it lust, and then calls lust a sin. Then links it to one of the reasons why many people won't inherit the kingdom of God.

I'm sure someone will argue that I got all that wrong. Maybe I do. But that is how it feels to me.

 

[Lynx]

God's people are still being destroyed for lack of knowledge..........

1 Peter 1:8 & 9
Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy, now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

James 1:21
Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save your souls.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are spirit beings that have a soul and inhabit a body. To be born again is to have a new, live spirit where Jesus is pleased to dwell. He will not dwell in a dead spirit, which is why "invite Jesus into your heart" is not the real gospel. The soul is not instantly transformed. It is a process that takes a lifetime. The body will be transformed at our physical death or when Jesus returns to take us home.

This is the very much simplified version. Change the word "save" to "deliver" and you will get a much better picture of what the salvation of the soul means in practice. It is Luke 4:18 in action.

And this is not my theory. I first came across this teaching around 45 years ago. God has been working it into my life since the day I was born again. Progressive sanctification is something that Baptists teach. Oddly, at least some of them reject the idea of the salvation of the soul. Since that phrase is in God's word, unlike "progressive sanctification", I don't understand their problem. Perhaps its a throwback to times when they believed that soul and spirit are the same thing.

wOw but this thread has gone far afield! Two salvations? Yeah, no, I've read the whole Bible and there's nothing in there about it.

In your effort to justify this belief you stretch scripture more than a certain church trying to justify their musical instrument ban.

I would elaborate, but this thread already has, as they say, more crap than a Christmas goose. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

I don't think men have a hard time talking about it. At least not in my experience. But there have been a lot of books written about it because it's a hard subject to wrap one's brain around it....

This is an excerpt from a blog that I was trying to write, and then decided not to post.

In my online travels, and podcast listening. I heard that sex is one of the very top things that causes people to walk away from God. I feel that I can completely understand why. We got a God who created sex, gave men a strong sex drive, calls it lust, and then calls lust a sin. Then links it to one of the reasons why many people won't inherit the kingdom of God.

I'm sure someone will argue that I got all that wrong. Maybe I do. But that is how it feels to me.

Some men are eunuchs by birth, others have made themselves eunuchs for various reasons. Some men, like Paul, are able to exercise complete self control. For the vast majority of men, none of these conditions will be the case, and it's best for them that they marry. There's a difference between sexual attraction and feelings, and convetous or unbridled sexual lust.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

Some men are eunuchs by birth, others have made themselves eunuchs for various reasons. Some men, like Paul, are able to exercise complete self control. For the vast majority of men, none of these conditions will be the case, and it's best for them that they marry. There's a difference between sexual attraction and feelings, and convetous or unbridled sexual lust.

I'm not saying your wrong, but I listen to an audio bible daily for 9 months of the year. Sometimes I get a little away from it during the two summer months: June and July. But I got no idea how you back up this statement from scripture.

"There's a difference between sexual attraction and feelings, and convetous or unbridled sexual lust."

I listened the audio book of Every Man's Battle, and they even seem to go so far as to say that even imply that even having a wet dream is lust. They believe that if a man sees a woman, and then looks a second time, that is lust. So they try to get all men to bounce their eyes. Try doing that when your talking to a woman. Always made me wonder: How does a woman feel when she sees the guy bouncing his eyes away from her.

The only Christian book I have found so far that suggests that Sexual Attraction and Lust is two different things, is a new one called: The Great Sex Rescue. Which is mainly written for women. It suggests that the way Lust is being taught in Churches, which is mostly based on "Every Man's Battle" and other books like it, is messing up men, and therefor also messing up women as well. It's a very interesting read. In my case it was an audio book. But still, a very interesting thing to think about. But my problem with all of this stuff is, it seems to be a symptom of the fact that Christian people can't seem to figure this stuff out. It is like you get so many different voices going at once, that even if someone is correct, it makes no difference, because nobody can tell who is correct.

I know that some people say, the holy spirit will guide us. That is a problem because here we are just about all believers and yet we come up with different ideas on this stuff.

Dude I've been troubled by this Lust thing since I was 13 years old! I'm 43 now, and still troubled by it.

 

[crossnote]

God's people are still being destroyed for lack of knowledge..........

1 Peter 1:8 & 9
Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy, now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

James 1:21
Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save your souls.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are spirit beings that have a soul and inhabit a body. To be born again is to have a new, live spirit where Jesus is pleased to dwell. He will not dwell in a dead spirit, which is why "invite Jesus into your heart" is not the real gospel. The soul is not instantly transformed. It is a process that takes a lifetime. The body will be transformed at our physical death or when Jesus returns to take us home.

This is the very much simplified version. Change the word "save" to "deliver" and you will get a much better picture of what the salvation of the soul means in practice. It is Luke 4:18 in action.

And this is not my theory. I first came across this teaching around 45 years ago. God has been working it into my life since the day I was born again. Progressive sanctification is something that Baptists teach. Oddly, at least some of them reject the idea of the salvation of the soul. Since that phrase is in God's word, unlike "progressive sanctification", I don't understand their problem. Perhaps its a throwback to times when they believed that soul and spirit are the same thing.

Anyways, I like your signatures

"Lord Jesus did not come to make bad people good. He came to make dead people alive" (GK Chesterton)
"He who has the Son has the Life" The question is, "Does the Son have you?" Jesus is Lord
When animals stop eating meat, so will I.

I've come across many 'teachings' in the past 50 years, but I compare them to Scripture (that's why I asked my first question).

 

[crossnote]

It never ceases to boggle my mind when people make such claims as this.

"Good works" had absolutely nothing to do with these people's problems.

Here was their real problem:

Their real problem was that Jesus 'never knew them', He says so in vs. 23...

(Mat 7:23) And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

It's not rocket science, they were not born again; they didn't have God's Spirit.

And how were their ways unequal with God's ways?

They were unequal in that they claimed to be good trees, yet they were bringing forth evil fruit.

They were unequal in that they called Jesus "Lord", yet they weren't doing the will of his Father in heaven.
spirit and were at enmity with God. Again, it's not rocket science.

If such is true, AND IT IS, then how were they able to prophesy in Christ's name, to cast out devils/demons in Christ's name, and to do many wonderful works in Christ's name?

The answer is found in the word "wonderful".

No the answer is found in the word 'deception' they were deceivers. Ever hear of NAR? that's a good example.

My point?

One can have a GIFT of the Spirit and function in it, yet not be bringing forth any of the FRUITS of the Spirit in that they are a WORKER OF INIQUITY.

Judas Iscariot, for example, immediately comes to mind. Judas cast out devils/demons and healed the sick, and Jesus said of him that it would have been better for him if he had never been born.

Anyhow, seeing how Christ is the vine, AND HE'S A GOOD VINE, if we're truly branches which are attached to this vine, then we should be bringing forth good fruit. Again, as Jesus said, "You shall know them by their FRUITS"...and NOT their gifts.

I like this better...

1 John 4:1 (KJV) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

A born again Christian will NOT be thrown into everlasting fire, period.

 

[Lanolin]

hmm
well I havent read that book

so not sure what its really saying there or if its biblical advice about bouncing eyes?!

I think generally women can tell if a man is looking at her lustfully rather than in admiration or simply seeing her for who she is.

I mean its not like this its more like this and maybe some drooling over certain body parts. like if you staring at her chest when you talk to a woman thats not actually a good thing.

then theirs the
but, it could be their eyes are just itchy.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

hmm
well I havent read that book

so not sure what its really saying there or if its biblical advice about bouncing eyes?!

I think generally women can tell if a man is looking at her lustfully rather than in admiration or simply seeing her for who she is.

I mean its not like this its more like this and maybe some drooling over certain body parts. like if you staring at her chest when you talk to a woman thats not actually a good thing.

then theirs the
but, it could be their eyes are just itchy.

You should probably read Every Man's Battle, and The Great Sex Rescue. That will give you two sides of the coin to look at. They both back up there views in scripture. But you know how it is, context is king. That doesn't mean they are using scripture properly, just cause one can find something that sounds like it backs up your point of view.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

I think I'm done with this discussion. It seems to have caused more harm then good. So I guess, I'm just going to say "I'm sorry about that."