Will There Be Sex in Heaven?

[JohnB]

Note that Genesis 6 is titled "Wickedness of the World":

Wickedness in the World
6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal[b]; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Based on my reading, it does not seem that God was pleased with angels/"sons of God" having sex with women. Also, Genesis 6, if sons of God means angels (there is disagreement on this), "contradicts" with Matthew 22, where Jesus says angels do not marry. Online reading also suggests that these angels are fallen angels (i.e., demons).

But these angels did have desires.

The other interpretation of the lines of Seth and Cain, the question is than what was wrong with the daughters of Seth? Were they ugly?

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

I went to Lutheran schools.

As I posted earlier, no one argues more for the possibility of sex, ANY possibility of sex, than a group of hormone-laden teenagers. Especially when they are told no at every turn.

I don't think I ever asked it here because my school experience made it seem like such a been there, bought the T-shirt kind of topic.

My job is to find all the questions I hear talked about but no one cares bring them up, because they will be deemed unfit for Christian conversation.

And yet millions of Christians are suffering in silence, because of the very fact that the very mention of their issue is shot down.

I'm the mole that keeps popping up long after it's been whacked. 😁

Jesus said, "Ask, and keep asking..." People might discourage questions, but if you want to know, then keep asking. That's what I've been doing. And as a result, I've been getting many answers. God reveals to those who ask. The only qualification is to ask and keep asking (and to seek and keep seeking and to knock and keep knocking). The last thing God told me about something I've been seeking for years (it's not marriage; I was never seeking that) is to knock and keep knocking. I always ask. My dad hated it when I was little, and people who don't want to know still hate it. I'm not concerned with what other people think though. And God will reward me tremendously for my pursuit.

 

[Magenta]

The other interpretation of the lines of Seth and Cain, the question is than what was wrong with the daughters of Seth? Were they ugly?

The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth,
and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.

Perhaps you need more time to absorb the truth of this.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

I think the husband/wife relationship, and any other relationship such as parent/child, etc. is over after death. Remember Jesus puts spiritual family over biological family.

Just because God puts something over or before something else does not mean the secondary thing is obsolete. The notion is disturbing. Some things that God put 'first' before or 'above' others are man/male/husband before woman/female/wife (Ephesians 5:23); apostle before the other four ministries (1Corinthians 12:28); leaders before non-leaders (Romans 13:1); obedience before sacrifice (1Samuel 15:22-23); love for God before love for others (Matthew 22:37-40); and Jew before Gentile (Rom. 1:16); God the Father before God the Son and the Spirit; and many more. Are the secondary things obsolete just because the first things exist? Will God really cancel the good things He gave to man because the spiritual things are more important? The Bible doesn't say that in eternity, believers will only be spirit (because somehow the soul and the body are just bad); instead, it says that believers will receive a new body.

With wisdom, christians would do well and see above many of these 'impossible things' that 'just can't be' if they started thinking in terms of 'new' rather than 'canceled', because God majors in restoring, not nullifying, broken things.

"He who was seated on the throne said, 'Behold, I am making all things new!” Then He said, 'Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true'" (Revelations 21:5).

Even so (right?), amen.

 

[MsMediator]

But these angels did have desires.

The other interpretation of the lines of Seth and Cain, the question is than what was wrong with the daughters of Seth? Were they ugly?

I do not think the daughters of Seth were ugly, but likely the daughters of Cain were promiscuous.

If the "sons of God" were men from Seth's line, and the offspring were giants, one might wonder if the daughters of Cain were ugly. That leads me to think that the "sons of Gods" were likely angels/fallen angels and the offspring being giants shows this was an relationship which God may have disapproved as evident through the unnatural-looking offspring born. If this was an approved relationship, the offspring should have had some good angelic traits/superpowers, instead they were dumb giants.

 

[MsMediator]

Just because God puts something over or before something else does not mean the secondary thing is obsolete. The notion is disturbing. Some things that God put 'first' before or 'above' others are man/male/husband before woman/female/wife (Ephesians 5:23); apostle before the other four ministries (1Corinthians 12:28); leaders before non-leaders (Romans 13:1); obedience before sacrifice (1Samuel 15:22-23); love for God before love for others (Matthew 22:37-40); and Jew before Gentile (Rom. 1:16); God the Father before God the Son and the Spirit; and many more. Are the secondary things obsolete just because the first things exist? Will God really cancel the good things He gave to man because the spiritual things are more important? The Bible doesn't say that in eternity, believers will only be spirit (because somehow the soul and the body are just bad); instead, it says that believers will receive a new body.

With wisdom, christians would do well and see above many of these 'impossible things' that 'just can't be' if they started thinking in terms of 'new' rather than 'canceled', because God majors in restoring, not nullifying, broken things.

"He who was seated on the throne said, 'Behold, I am making all things new!” Then He said, 'Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true'" (Revelations 21:5).

Even so (right?), amen.

I just think we will view eachother as brothers/sisters in Christ. We may have memory we were someone's wife/husband/child (we likely would). I do believe we will be reunited with loved ones, etc. But, I do not believe we will carry over earthy relationships after death. My views are mainly reinforced with the case of the widow with the seven husbands; who would she have sex with in Heaven or the new earth? Resurrected people do not marry, have sex, or procreate, whether in Heaven or the new earth. I do not see indication that new humans will be born in the New Earth (the main reasons for humans born are to fill the earth and spread the Gospel). That also raises new questions like child raising, will the resurrected continue to have children for all eternity until they are greatly outnumbered by the new humans, etc. (that would be the eventual outcome). No, I believe Heaven and the New Earth are created for the resurrected.

 

[Amanuensis]

But these angels did have desires.

The other interpretation of the lines of Seth and Cain, the question is than what was wrong with the daughters of Seth? Were they ugly?

I believe the women in Cains camp (chapter 4, where it mentions about 3 of these daughters, whose names meant fair, pleasant, lovely etc in Hebrew) were examples of the daughters of men. And that Cain's daughters enticed the godly out of Adam/Seths camp (these were the ones who were calling upon the name of the Lord (sons of God) and of course Adam was literaly the son of God in the sense that he had no father,) and these men were enticed by the wicked women of Cains camp probably similar to Balaam counseling Balak to send the Moabite women into the camp of Israel to entice them to sin. Were the Moabite women better looking? Maybe they made themselves so with makeup and how they dressed to entice. Same thing that is still happening today.

The war rages on. We must resist the daughters of men and the demons behind them.

Many women can make themselves look very attractive with makeup and sexually enticing clothing who are not very attractive without the makeup and all the preparations for a night clubbing.

These daughters of men probably did something similar to entice the godly men to fall to lust until they had all gone over to Cains side and only Noah was left.

I am sure this is the correct interpretation and that the devil is behind the confusion about angels. He does not want people to focus on the real message here because it is still his number one strategy to ensnare people in sin and wickedness. Especially young people.

 

[Amanuensis]

I just think we will view eachother as brothers/sisters in Christ. We may have memory we were someone's wife/husband/child (we likely would). I do believe we will be reunited with loved ones, etc. But, I do not believe we will carry over earthy relationships after death. My views are mainly reinforced with the case of the widow with the seven husbands; who would she have sex with in Heaven or the new earth? Resurrected people do not marry, have sex, or procreate, whether in Heaven or the new earth. I do not see indication that new humans will be born in the New Earth (the main reasons for humans born are to fill the earth and spread the Gospel). That also raises new questions like child raising, will the resurrected continue to have children for all eternity until they are greatly outnumbered by the new humans, etc. (that would be the eventual outcome). No, I believe Heaven and the New Earth are created for the resurrected.

Yes. A sane Christian. Hallelujah. So glad you are here sister. There is no question that we will not care one bit about sex or marriage in the resurrection having graduated to more lofty heavenly ideas and occupations.

Jesus answered that question very clearly.

So many things people are preoccupied with on earth has no relevance in eternity. We must focus on those things that are above. Live lives fully given to knowing Christ and making Him known. Fleeing from all idolatry, lusts, and also being careful to not be preoccupied with things that only have relevance in this life so that they take up too much of our time and attention. Things that cease the moment we are resurrected. Like sex, how we look, who much money we can make and what we can buy.

Let us number our days to apply our hearts unto wisdom. What is the most excellent use of my time? Does what I am doing have eternal value? How can I spend less time on the non eternal and more time on the eternal things?

 

[Amanuensis]

Jesus said, "Ask, and keep asking..." People might discourage questions, but if you want to know, then keep asking. That's what I've been doing. And as a result, I've been getting many answers. God reveals to those who ask. The only qualification is to ask and keep asking (and to seek and keep seeking and to knock and keep knocking). The last thing God told me about something I've been seeking for years (it's not marriage; I was never seeking that) is to knock and keep knocking. I always ask. My dad hated it when I was little, and people who don't want to know still hate it. I'm not concerned with what other people think though. And God will reward me tremendously for my pursuit.

Some biblical topics require that we put things on a shelf in our minds and collect all the relevant data from the scriptures over time before we should feel the need to draw a conclusion.

And some biblical topics do not require that much information before we can take a stand or draw a conclusion.

Jesus clearly answered the question about whether there will be marriage or sex in heaven. I took a stand and moved on decades ago and I am really not sure why you don't understand what he said. But each person's mind has it's own method of filtering data and making decisions so I can't really judge people for not seeing something that I find is simple, unrefutable, and without ambiguity.

No marriage, no sex, like the angels. And probably no sex organs. I cannot prove for certain that the angels reference would suggest no sex organs but I do think that would be what his hearers would have thought was inferred.

I don't think we will poop either or need sewage plants do you?

We will have a different body and similar to angels and the order of our existence, mission and purpose will all be different. Nothing like how we live now. No marriage, no sex, no kids. I am not open to debate it. It's settled forever in heaven. Because of what Jesus said.

But be careful to notice how he answered the Sadducees with their questions designed to trip him up thinking their argument made sense but did nothing but reveal that they had no spiritual understanding.

He said " The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: "

Those Saducees were not going to be finding out what happens in that world. They were not going to be of that number of those found worthy.

Those that shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world and the resurrection from the dead are those who will not be the least bit interested in the things of this life continuing in heaven.

These are the people who are looking for a better world, a better life, a better resurrection, not more of the same. Those who look for more of the same, it is a red flag that they will not be found worthy of that world. There is a serious root cause problem. They have no heavenly minded interests. They don't want to leave something behind. They are like Lots wife. These are not the sons and daughters of the resurrection.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

You are assuming it is false. It could be true. The fact remains, it was not recorded.
God did not broadcast this to occultists. They simply understood Jewish prophecy, apparently better than even Herod, king of the Jews. I understand where the belief of three wise men came from, and again, it could be either true or false. Either is an assumption.

Perhaps it is you who needs to challenge your beliefs.

You did not address the fact that your claim that God did not take
anything away from Adam and Eve after they sinned is erroneous.

The four accounts of Jesus's crucifixion say nothing about Jesus falling three times, so we can't take that from a movie and make it fact. (On the other hand, the Bible isn't shy to disclose that Jesus did not carry His cross the entire way to Golgotha because of His wounds and weariness. This fact just doesn't align with the religious view many christians like to believe which is that since the OT said Jesus would suffer [alone], He would indeed carry the cross, the symbol of His suffering, all the way. How's that for shattering religious mindsets.)

It's only a religious mindset that thinks God doesn't and can't show anything to occultists. (So, God allows occultists to hurt and kill people but doesn't disclose or reveal anything to them for their own good?) The Bible calls the men "wise men from the East". If you follow the history of the East at least in the Bible, these men came from the region of Arabia and Babylon. In that region, "wise men" were practitioners of the occult (and 'New Age'). Daniel knows. He was in Babylon where he was added to the "wise men" and thought to be like them because he was wise. When the king had a dream he couldn't interpret, he called for his "wise men":

"Then the king gave the command to call the magicians, the astrologers, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans to tell the king his dreams" (Daniel 2:2).

Makes perfect sense, because wise men have access to the spirit realm where they can 'find' knowledge that is hidden such as the interpretation of dreams. In the occult and New Age, they practice 'astral travel' and 'remote viewing'. In the Bible, we see God using what the occult would call 'remote viewing' several times. This is because everything satan does was already on God's side first as satan cannot create. Jesus first saw Nathanael by 'looking in on him' from a distance (John 1:43-51). In 2Kings 6:8-13, God showed Elisha the enemy's plans, preempting the enemy. When the enemy king inquired how this was happening, one of his own men (who apparently had access to the occult world) stated that Elisha was receiving knowledge about their plans. So, while Elisha was 'looking in' on the enemy (God's way), his enemy was 'looking in on him' (using occult abilities). Isn't that interesting? These things are sprinkled throughout the Bible and only surface for those who are seeking understanding beneath surface knowledge. The wise men were probably more than three (because wise men weren't unique, and the travel was too far to take only three common individuals), and they were into astrology. Joseph lied about using a similar talent (divination) to 'look in on his brothers' (read the story in Genesis 44). Also, why did Jesus have a star that appeared or was understood by the astrologers of the day, but today astrology says that everyone has a star but is bad? There are many questions.

You saying I may need to challenge my beliefs doesn't surprise me because christians don't challenge their beliefs. I'm not a christian. I'm someone who is pursuing God, therefore, I challenge every single thing, including God on some things (which the Bible permits as long as your heart is right isn't prideful or rebellious). I have read the story of the Fall. God hasn't answered most of my prayers to date (though He promises to), yet I don't accuse Him of doing wrong when I certainly 'deserve' to. I get tired of hearing christians putting things on God that are not in fact true. Explain to me what good things God took from Adam and Eve (and Earth) at the time of the Fall. Use your own words and explain it rather than just repeating it. Remember that there is evidence of generational curses in the Bible before God told Moses, "I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me" (Exodus 20:5). From that statement, do you really think God is the One who visits those curses on innocent people?

How about 1Kings 22 when God had a meeting with His angels and fallen angels and conferred with the fallen angels on how best to kill King Ahab? When a fallen angel came up with a good plan, God told him to go and succeed (how about God telling satan to attack Job). What is going on there? Don't be afraid to think and keep thinking until you find answers. The fact is that there is a great deal we don't know (in just the first three chapters of Genesis is enough mystery to take literally thousands of years to 'download' even through the lightspeed of revelation); we just tend to be too afraid to acknowledge this and prefer to pretend that we already know because we don't want to know more.

 

[Magenta]

The four accounts of Jesus's crucifixion say nothing about Jesus falling three times, so we can't take that from a movie and make it fact.

I never said we should. It still remains it could be a fact.

christians don't challenge their beliefs.

You really do assume a lot. You need to challenge your beliefs more.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

Some biblical topics require that we put things on a shelf in our minds and collect all the relevant data from the scriptures over time before we should feel the need to draw a conclusion.

And some biblical topics do not require that much information before we can take a stand or draw a conclusion.

Jesus clearly answered the question about whether there will be marriage or sex in heaven. I took a stand and moved on decades ago and I am really not sure why you don't understand what he said. But each person's mind has it's own method of filtering data and making decisions so I can't really judge people for not seeing something that I find is simple, unrefutable, and without ambiguity.

No marriage, no sex, like the angels. And probably no sex organs. I cannot prove for certain that the angels reference would suggest no sex organs but I do think that would be what his hearers would have thought was inferred.

I don't think we will poop either or need sewage plants do you?

We will have a different body and similar to angels and the order of our existence, mission and purpose will all be different. Nothing like how we live now. No marriage, no sex, no kids. I am not open to debate it. It's settled forever in heaven. Because of what Jesus said.

But be careful to notice how he answered the Sadducees with their questions designed to trip him up thinking their argument made sense but did nothing but reveal that they had no spiritual understanding.

He said " The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: "

Those Saducees were not going to be finding out what happens in that world. They were not going to be of that number of those found worthy.

Those that shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world and the resurrection from the dead are those who will not be the least bit interested in the things of this life continuing in heaven.

These are the people who are looking for a better world, a better life, a better resurrection, not more of the same. Those who look for more of the same, it is a red flag that they will not be found worthy of that world. There is a serious root cause problem. They have no heavenly minded interests. They don't want to leave something behind. They are like Lots wife. These are not the sons and daughters of the resurrection.

One of the things I find disturbing about discussing (or trying to discuss) spiritual things with christians is that christians tend to simply 'regress' to what they have always believed. Haven't we all read the Bible? Don't we know what Jesus said on this and that issue? Are children who ask their parents 'stupid questions' indeed stupid, or are they trying to learn more?

I think one of the biggest problems in this world is that people have different callings and as a result often butt heads. For example, if genuine prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers were alone together, unless they were truly mature, they would more than likely experience disunity and a lack of harmony. Why? Because their callings and designs are different, but they don't stop to consider that all those different pieces do in fact fit together. Genuine apostles have a God-given ability to discern the root or cause of issues as well as their solutions. They also have an anointing that makes them like a coach, being able to discern who fits where and where each person fits best. This is one reason they're still needed.

I've come across a lot of christians who just want to leave this world and go to Heaven. "Come, Lord, already!" is sort of their war cry. They want to go, take off, leave this planet. I used to be fascinated by these people as I'm on the direct opposite end of the spectrum: I want to stay on this planet until everything is wrapped up ("No man left behind" type of thing) and it is the very end of it all. I want to work, battle, stare down giants who pretend they're greater than they really are, etc. Most people don't want to do that. I had nothing in common with christians who want to pick up and run as soon as possible. I felt more like this guy: "When the Philistines banded together at a place where there was a field full of lentils, Israel's troops fled from them. But Shammah took his stand in the middle of the field. He defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory" (2Samuel 23:11-12). As some time passed, I began to understand that everyone has a different measure of faith and different measure of Grace: it's okay for some people to take off before the fight is over; but it's not okay for others.

In the same way, there are many christians who are content to not dig any deeper or learn any more or ask or seek or knock more than they already have; and the other side, there are people who can have no rest unless they ford deeper into the mysteries of God because God has made them that way. Most of Israel was content with what they already knew about God; but Moses refused to settle for those things and pressed his way into God's presence, desiring far more of God than most of his brethren did. Paul was speaking to Ephesians and explaining that God gave him a deposit of Grace (ie. tools) for them. He said to them, "By revelation, He made known to me the mystery... by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ"(Eph. 3). God didn't give the revelation of these mysteries to the Ephesians but to Paul. However, as in most cases, the Ephesians were free to ask God for the same revelations and to receive them:

"I do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come" (Eph. 1:16-21).

Some people will seek God for more; some people won't. Both parties should desist from pushing their own way on the other or saying that the other party's viewpoint is irrelevant. At the end of the day, God wants all believers to mature and grow in Him and to pursue Him for 'more' here on earth before Heaven. But God also knows this won't happen and does not condemn those who are okay not digging deeper for more.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

I never said we should. It still remains it could be a fact.



You really do assume a lot. You need to challenge your beliefs more.

There's no need to repeat myself here. Goodbye.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

I'm of the mind that God's purpose for us is to live, have life to the full, as it were. I believe we may be colonizing planets after that gigantic jasper cube lands on Jerusalem. We'll be creating works of art dwarfing the aesthetics we see in this life. I believe we'll be building, creating, managing, sharing in God's rule of the universe, being His governors, property managers, architects, etc...

So, everyone who says there's nothing sexual in Heaven may be right. But, even in that scenario, I think then that there may be something better that takes its place. Holy moly. I cannot see how we can place such limits on God when everything will be made right and perfect, when we won't have a sin nature that now cannot handle God's full generosity towards us.

Your speculations make sense. While God does create or 'spend' lavishly, He never creates or 'spends' unnecessarily. Therefore, those planets out there and all that space are there for a reason. Re-population, ruling, creating, designing, many many things. The issue is that christians who are close-minded (or afraid) not only disbelieve anything that seems 'extra-biblical' but they also tend to be offended with people who propose such things. The way they often treat them reminds me of how those in the know in Jesus's time (the religious leaders) harassed Him the most because He brought 'new things to their ears'. New things are often attacked and harassed now. But God will do many new things in our own days. And far more new things in eternity. God restores broken things (if they are good or receive restoration); He doesn't throw them out.

 

[Amanuensis]

One of the things I find disturbing about discussing (or trying to discuss) spiritual things with christians is that christians tend to simply 'regress' to what they have always believed. Haven't we all read the Bible? Don't we know what Jesus said on this and that issue? Are children who ask their parents 'stupid questions' indeed stupid, or are they trying to learn more?

I think one of the biggest problems in this world is that people have different callings and as a result often butt heads. For example, if genuine prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers were alone together, unless they were truly mature, they would more than likely experience disunity and a lack of harmony. Why? Because their callings and designs are different, but they don't stop to consider that all those different pieces do in fact fit together. Genuine apostles have a God-given ability to discern the root or cause of issues as well as their solutions. They also have an anointing that makes them like a coach, being able to discern who fits where and where each person fits best. This is one reason they're still needed.

I've come across a lot of christians who just want to leave this world and go to Heaven. "Come, Lord, already!" is sort of their war cry. They want to go, take off, leave this planet. I used to be fascinated by these people as I'm on the direct opposite end of the spectrum: I want to stay on this planet until everything is wrapped up ("No man left behind" type of thing) and it is the very end of it all. I want to work, battle, stare down giants who pretend they're greater than they really are, etc. Most people don't want to do that. I had nothing in common with christians who want to pick up and run as soon as possible. I felt more like this guy: "When the Philistines banded together at a place where there was a field full of lentils, Israel's troops fled from them. But Shammah took his stand in the middle of the field. He defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory" (2Samuel 23:11-12). As some time passed, I began to understand that everyone has a different measure of faith and different measure of Grace: it's okay for some people to take off before the fight is over; but it's not okay for others.

In the same way, there are many christians who are content to not dig any deeper or learn any more or ask or seek or knock more than they already have; and the other side, there are people who can have no rest unless they ford deeper into the mysteries of God because God has made them that way. Most of Israel was content with what they already knew about God; but Moses refused to settle for those things and pressed his way into God's presence, desiring far more of God than most of his brethren did. Paul was speaking to Ephesians and explaining that God gave him a deposit of Grace (ie. tools) for them. He said to them, "By revelation, He made known to me the mystery... by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ"(Eph. 3). God didn't give the revelation of these mysteries to the Ephesians but to Paul. However, as in most cases, the Ephesians were free to ask God for the same revelations and to receive them:

"I do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come" (Eph. 1:16-21).

Some people will seek God for more; some people won't. Both parties should desist from pushing their own way on the other or saying that the other party's viewpoint is irrelevant. At the end of the day, God wants all believers to mature and grow in Him and to pursue Him for 'more' here on earth before Heaven. But God also knows this won't happen and does not condemn those who are okay not digging deeper for more.

You can learn to be more decisive based on sound hermeneutics and conclude a thing and you can also know when to reserve judgment.

I think many studious Christians make decisions and come to their presuppositions based on sound hermeneutics and they don't feel the need to question them constantly as if they have no revelation already given to them.

Searching for truth is fine. But people do find it. When they do they stop questioning what they know to be truth. If you never know what is truth you just end up faithless and floundering, tossed by every wave and wind of doctrine that comes along. There is nothing admirable about not having a backbone. But that being said we can't make conclusions without textual support that we can point to and articulate.

There is a problem when we keep thinking up different interpretations that violate the context or the rules of interpretation and repeat them as if they are fact. For example...

I didn't see any hint that the report to the King from his servant about Elisha came by way of occult activity.

This knowledge could have been passed to him by some friend of his in the court of the Israeli king who knew about it.

Without any suggestion of occult activity on the part of the servant why would you be so bold as to state it as fact as you did?

11Therefore the heart of the king of Syria was sore troubled for this thing; and he called his servants, and said unto them, Will ye not shew me which of us is for the king of Israel? 12And one of his servants said, None, my lord, O king: but Elisha, the prophet that is in Israel, telleth the king of Israel the words that thou speakest in thy bedchamber.

Since there is not a shred of evidence in the text to suggest that the servant was informed through occult activity one does not have a biblical reason to suggest it. Did I miss something in a previous chapter that suggest that this servant has a crystal ball or was looking into a well, or visiting an oracle or reading the entrails of a chicken? If so please inform me where you got it from.

Thinking about all sorts of possible scenarios is fine, but it seems like you went from "thinking about things" to Concluding a thing and you stated it as fact. You are not able to conclude that the servant got the knowledge through occult activity so you should not have concluded it yet. You should be saying "I can't know" like you said before.

This is not how we do bible interpretation. You said a lot about not knowing a thing. What makes you think you know that the servant had an occult portal instead of a friend in the Israeli kings court? Seems like you would be more willing to put this occult idea on the shelf and "not know it for sure" than you would to put the answer that Jesus gave about not having sex in heaven on a shelf and not know it for sure.

I can know for certain that Jesus said there will be no marriage or sex in heaven. I cannot know how the servant was informed about Elisha and told the King and I certainly cannot, and should not suggest it was from occult activity without the text suggesting it. That is a flagrant violation of biblical hermeneutics. I would lean toward the servant getting it from talking to people. This was common in history. Spies everywhere informing others what was going on. The servant was probably informed that Elisha was informing the King through a friend of his in the Court of Israel. That would be the most likely scenario not a crystal ball. That is pure fantasy on your part. Maybe you want it to be true? Makes for a good fantasy novel but not true to historical reality. I prefer historical reality myself. I see no hint of occult portals in this text. There are rules of interpretation and many of them are the same rules of reading comprehension learned in school.

 

[Amanuensis]

Your speculations make sense. While God does create or 'spend' lavishly, He never creates or 'spends' unnecessarily. Therefore, those planets out there and all that space are there for a reason. Re-population, ruling, creating, designing, many many things. The issue is that christians who are close-minded (or afraid) not only disbelieve anything that seems 'extra-biblical' but they also tend to be offended with people who propose such things. The way they often treat them reminds me of how those in the know in Jesus's time (the religious leaders) harassed Him the most because He brought 'new things to their ears'. New things are often attacked and harassed now. But God will do many new things in our own days. And far more new things in eternity. God restores broken things (if they are good or receive restoration); He doesn't throw them out.

I think the scriptures is clear that the heavens that we know and the earth that we know get wiped out. Science reveals that they are not eternal. We inherit an eternal world. The planets are not them.

 

[Magenta]

Some people will seek God for more; some people won't. Both parties should desist from
pushing their own way on the other or saying that the other party's viewpoint is irrelevant.

That's exactly what you are doing.

 

[Runningman]

1. Post resurrection, Jesus ate and drank with people (Acts 10:40,41)
2. Mary the mother of Jesus and His brothers were still referred to as mother and brothers post-resurrection (Acts 1:14)

The glorified resurrected body of Jesus is the kind of body that all people who are resurrected to eternal life will receive. Jesus still had family and ate food. It stands to good reason we too will retain our family relations in the resurrection and our bodily functions.

There’s no reason to believe anything different to the contrary as far as I can tell.

So “getting married and being given in marriage” don’t apply to people who were already married pre-resurrection; i.e., your family is still your family after you’re resurrected so if you had a husband and wife you keep them.

As far as the new heavens and new earth go, it’s referring to outer space and planet earth. They will be destroyed then recreated. The notable difference between the new heavens and new earth is that there will only be righteousness.

2 Peter 3:13
13But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Righteousness is what God created and said is good. God created people and animals with sexual organs and one of the purposes of those organs is reproduction.

I’m still keeping my vote a maybe without any direct proof to the contrary, but taking in everything I’ve seen into consideration it seems like, just based on Biblical literature, it could very well be a yes that there will be sex in heaven. I won’t say yes for certain, but the evidence points to that more than not.

 

[MsMediator]

could very well be a yes that there will be sex in heaven. I won’t say yes for certain, but the evidence points to that more than not.

. 1. Post resurrection, Jesus ate and drank with people (Acts 10:40,41)
2. Mary the mother of Jesus and His brothers were still referred to as mother and brothers post-resurrection (Acts 1:14)

Just because Jesus ate and drank, had fellowship with the disciples and probably took communion, doesn't mean there will be sex in Heaven. Remember the widow with the seven husbands. Jesus was specifically discussing a woman who was married pre-resurrection and saying she won't be married in Heaven.

Luke referred to Jesus's mother and brothers for our benefit, the same way we may say we have a grandma passed and gone to Heaven. However, that doesn't mean the relations transfer over except maybe as a memory. We don't say we have a sister in Christ who passed on to Heaven.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

You can learn to be more decisive based on sound hermeneutics and conclude a thing and you can also know when to reserve judgment.

I think many studious Christians make decisions and come to their presuppositions based on sound hermeneutics and they don't feel the need to question them constantly as if they have no revelation already given to them.

Searching for truth is fine. But people do find it. When they do they stop questioning what they know to be truth. If you never know what is truth you just end up faithless and floundering, tossed by every wave and wind of doctrine that comes along. There is nothing admirable about not having a backbone. But that being said we can't make conclusions without textual support that we can point to and articulate.

There is a problem when we keep thinking up different interpretations that violate the context or the rules of interpretation and repeat them as if they are fact. For example...

I didn't see any hint that the report to the King from his servant about Elisha came by way of occult activity.

This knowledge could have been passed to him by some friend of his in the court of the Israeli king who knew about it.

Without any suggestion of occult activity on the part of the servant why would you be so bold as to state it as fact as you did?

11Therefore the heart of the king of Syria was sore troubled for this thing; and he called his servants, and said unto them, Will ye not shew me which of us is for the king of Israel? 12And one of his servants said, None, my lord, O king: but Elisha, the prophet that is in Israel, telleth the king of Israel the words that thou speakest in thy bedchamber.

Since there is not a shred of evidence in the text to suggest that the servant was informed through occult activity one does not have a biblical reason to suggest it. Did I miss something in a previous chapter that suggest that this servant has a crystal ball or was looking into a well, or visiting an oracle or reading the entrails of a chicken? If so please inform me where you got it from.

Thinking about all sorts of possible scenarios is fine, but it seems like you went from "thinking about things" to Concluding a thing and you stated it as fact. You are not able to conclude that the servant got the knowledge through occult activity so you should not have concluded it yet. You should be saying "I can't know" like you said before.

This is not how we do bible interpretation. You said a lot about not knowing a thing. What makes you think you know that the servant had an occult portal instead of a friend in the Israeli kings court? Seems like you would be more willing to put this occult idea on the shelf and "not know it for sure" than you would to put the answer that Jesus gave about not having sex in heaven on a shelf and not know it for sure.

I can know for certain that Jesus said there will be no marriage or sex in heaven. I cannot know how the servant was informed about Elisha and told the King and I certainly cannot, and should not suggest it was from occult activity without the text suggesting it. That is a flagrant violation of biblical hermeneutics. I would lean toward the servant getting it from talking to people. This was common in history. Spies everywhere informing others what was going on. The servant was probably informed that Elisha was informing the King through a friend of his in the Court of Israel. That would be the most likely scenario not a crystal ball. That is pure fantasy on your part. Maybe you want it to be true? Makes for a good fantasy novel but not true to historical reality. I prefer historical reality myself. I see no hint of occult portals in this text. There are rules of interpretation and many of them are the same rules of reading comprehension learned in school.

You said a mouthful. I hate that the churches are so divided, because when people are divided, their communication is also divided.

I've written several long posts, but I hate to write more than two short paragraphs because 'my style' is to 'fly over, drop a bomb, and keep moving'. Unlike bullets, bombs target everything in the area rather than picking and choosing. I use generalities all the time because I learn quickly when people generalize and forget that not everyone learns that way.

God uses generalizations throughout the Bible, and when Jesus said that all the religious Jewish leaders were [snakes, condemned, etc.], He knew that not every last one of them was what He was saying they were. He knew about Nicodemus, later Joseph of Arimathea. He also had common sense and did enough mingling in Israel to know that not all Jewish religious leaders were corrupt. But when He spoke 'harshly' about them as a whole, He always lumped them together.

As far back as 1998, I was never into seeing or believing things that fit my own feelings or beliefs. I knew how to separate my own things from the truth. This was why when my older brother told me in 2000-2002 that the Vineyard churches (begun in Anaheim, CA) were corrupt and that the charismatic churches were not really worshipping God is spirit but were "soulish", I genuinely didn't believe him (which I distinguished from not wanting to believe him). But since I understood that God knows everything and not us, I put what he said on the backburner thinking, "I don't believe it, but I don't know either. So I'll put it here and let God reveal it." Before the end of 2004, God revealed to me that everything (all the 'bad news') my brother had told me was true to the last bit. God would not have had a chance to show me the truth if I had thrown out what my brother said because I didn't believe it. Still works that way now.

You mentioned hermeneutics, etc. God, that is like the extremely slow-motion route to learning. Okay, so that's just for me. 99% of what God has taught me has never come from any man-made commentaries, lexicons, or those helps. I'm not against them. As I said, my style is to get in, drop a bomb, then get out. I'm not the type to sit around and linger (which is why I fly through these comments and probably make lots of errors); my design is to go-- to stop here, stop there, and keep moving. Because God made me this way, He usually teaches me while I'm on the move and I don't have to sit and study and read, etc. Hopefully, you don't think this is illegitimate as it's God's preferred method of teaching anything:

"When you are brought before synagogues, rulers, and authorities, do not worry about how to defend yourselves or what to say. For at that time the Holy Spirit will teach you what you should say" (Luke 12:11-12).

I've experienced it all the time and it has to do with practical, pragmatic, down-to-earth aspects of life; it's how God teaches me (ie. in the moment). It's God's preferred way to speak to or teach anyone, but He doesn't do it with everyone or all the time. This style of teaching, revelation, or communication frees a person up. Someone who is say heading an organization or company would benefit tremendously from this style of communication and teaching from God because they are freed up to be busy with work, etc. I have lots of examples of how this has worked for me. Here is just one:

Sometime in 2013, I began attending a church and noticed (there again is that 'anointing' connected to being 'taught in the moment') whenever we met on Sunday and Wednesday, most attendees immediately dashed to get something to eat at the nearby Dairy Queen or some restaurant-- every time after a service/meeting. I stopped and considered why this was, then I gained understanding. God 'released to me' (not said to me) why this was the case: we humans are tri-partite beings, and each of our three parts must 'eat' or be nourished. Our spirits are nourished on Christ; our souls are nourished by love, belonging, entertainment, good times, etc.; and our bodies are nourished by food that goes in our mouths. Since these three parts are interconnected, it makes it so that when one part is not being fed, the other two parts will seek to compensate (the same way your stomach acids begin to 'eat' your inner walls if there's no food in your stomach). Jesus talked about all three to the Samaritan woman at the well (soul hunger (her five husbands and sixth lover), body hunger (coming to the well for water), and spirit hunger (the water Jesus gives that wells up to eternal life)). What I was witnessing at that church was that the people were not being spiritually fed. Since their spirits were not fed, they immediately sought to compensate for that hunger (as is normal) by eating for the body (and over-socializing before and after church).

That's how God talks to me. He also usually talks to me in 'spiritual language', so that's how I tend to talk myself. For that reason, most people don't get what I'm saying which is why I keep telling people to ask what I mean instead of writing a treatise that will then take me 100 years to try to explain. Hermeneutics can only go so far. God has taken me farther teaching me directly by the Holy Spirit. I don't know what else I can tell you now, but this is why I ask (and might say) some things that some christians think are stupid but which are not in fact stupid at all. Lol.