Women and manipulation...
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I guessed as much. 
I don't think either gender is more prone to manipulative behavior, but of course more women than men are going to try to manipulate you, and guess what? More men than women have tried to manipulate me. We notice these things with which we have first-hand experience, and remember them, and moan about them, and let our views become skewed by them. But our personal experiences are only a very small fraction of what goes on in the world, and realizing this helps us have a more balanced view. I don't intend any judgment about your attitude, because I have plenty of experience with anger, etc myself. But I do notice you dumping on women an awful lot, and I think it would do you a lot of good to sort through some stuff.
In regards to the two questions in your op, I don't think I can tell you how to spot a manipulator or a good Christian woman. I think that if you are not confident in your ability to discern the difference, then pray for discernment and do not become involved in a relationship until you are better able to tell the difference.
I don't think either gender is more prone to manipulative behavior, but of course more women than men are going to try to manipulate you, and guess what? More men than women have tried to manipulate me. We notice these things with which we have first-hand experience, and remember them, and moan about them, and let our views become skewed by them. But our personal experiences are only a very small fraction of what goes on in the world, and realizing this helps us have a more balanced view. I don't intend any judgment about your attitude, because I have plenty of experience with anger, etc myself. But I do notice you dumping on women an awful lot, and I think it would do you a lot of good to sort through some stuff.
In regards to the two questions in your op, I don't think I can tell you how to spot a manipulator or a good Christian woman. I think that if you are not confident in your ability to discern the difference, then pray for discernment and do not become involved in a relationship until you are better able to tell the difference.
Yeah lol Hey, I'm looking for christian advise so, I'm dealing it okay, right?
Thanks for all that... it helps give perspective... to the whole problem. You know... I'm sort of glad this happened. This really contrasts with Godliness... it made me appreciate my aunt a lot more... she's been really kind to me recently.. and I know she hasn't done it to get something out of me...just sheer love towards me. lol I kissed her and called her a beautiful angel in appreciation haha Bad things can highlight the good things.
Funny thing... you said you didn't want to judge my attitude and you did implicitly lol It's okay for you to judge my attitude. I want you or anyone to judge my attitude.. it helps "fine tune" me.
I can tell the difference... its just that I thought it be good to get advice on it from Christians.
I agree with JonahLynx. Both women and men aren't going to show their manipulative side when they first meet you. They're like abusers. In fact, they are exactly like abusers. They just go about it emotionally and psychologically. Sometimes, yeah, it's hard to see and you end up getting hurt. Like a lot of folks on here. But, as the saying goes, sometimes you need to go through a bunch of the bad apples before you get a good one.
C
^^^ my thoughts on the problem
So I suppose we can think about two good questions...
How do you spot a worthless manipulator?
and...
How do you spot an honest christian woman?
or... just say whatever thoughts[/QUOTE]
First, women were born into a controlling nature..and in the garden because of that , we were given men to "rule over us".. not in a tyrannical way but a WISE way ..making sure we don't manipulate or control them.... and men, were to also cover women...because in the garden, they basically didn't man up..
So.
With jesus, His Holy Spirit, we can overcome the need to control...
But on the other hand...just like in the garden...the woman had taken things into her own hands because the man sat there and let a serpent talk to her.. he didn't take care of the situation so she did in the way she knew how..which was not a good way.. So men need to "man up' and be wise and not let women manipulate or control them.
If a woman is chasing you..she is not the one..
if a woman is trying to get you to show her you like her in ways you just don't want to.. which means you don't like her. then she's not the one.
If a woman is always degrading you she is not the one..
However...if you are not a leader, not sold out to Christ and not able to stand against the enemy in your own life or hers..then YOU are not the one..
Remember. just like any fallen nature.. we women, given enough rope and ammunition can all turn controlling..
it would take a strong man of God to love, nurture and care for a woman and still say NO to some things...
Women dress provocatively to manipulate you are right. I don't agree with those who say that's not true. They may not mean it to be that way but they think that's what will draw a man..so instead of it being by the spirit of GOD, they dress that way to draw ...
So steer clear of a woman who isn't modest.. A woman can dress in a very attractive manner..and as long as she is not being immodest then there is nothing wrong with that and that is not manipulation..
God gave you wisdom.. you have to lean on Him for that ...because you can sense when a woman is being that way or not.
Also you can't spot an honest christian woman... you have to get to know them..if you attend a bible believing church then you should be able to get to know many christian women there.. then decide what you are looking for and stick with that .
So I suppose we can think about two good questions...
How do you spot a worthless manipulator?
and...
How do you spot an honest christian woman?
or... just say whatever thoughts[/QUOTE]
First, women were born into a controlling nature..and in the garden because of that , we were given men to "rule over us".. not in a tyrannical way but a WISE way ..making sure we don't manipulate or control them.... and men, were to also cover women...because in the garden, they basically didn't man up..
So.
With jesus, His Holy Spirit, we can overcome the need to control...
But on the other hand...just like in the garden...the woman had taken things into her own hands because the man sat there and let a serpent talk to her.. he didn't take care of the situation so she did in the way she knew how..which was not a good way.. So men need to "man up' and be wise and not let women manipulate or control them.
If a woman is chasing you..she is not the one..
if a woman is trying to get you to show her you like her in ways you just don't want to.. which means you don't like her. then she's not the one.
If a woman is always degrading you she is not the one..
However...if you are not a leader, not sold out to Christ and not able to stand against the enemy in your own life or hers..then YOU are not the one..
Remember. just like any fallen nature.. we women, given enough rope and ammunition can all turn controlling..
it would take a strong man of God to love, nurture and care for a woman and still say NO to some things...
Women dress provocatively to manipulate you are right. I don't agree with those who say that's not true. They may not mean it to be that way but they think that's what will draw a man..so instead of it being by the spirit of GOD, they dress that way to draw ...
So steer clear of a woman who isn't modest.. A woman can dress in a very attractive manner..and as long as she is not being immodest then there is nothing wrong with that and that is not manipulation..
God gave you wisdom.. you have to lean on Him for that ...because you can sense when a woman is being that way or not.
Also you can't spot an honest christian woman... you have to get to know them..if you attend a bible believing church then you should be able to get to know many christian women there.. then decide what you are looking for and stick with that .
You're welcome
When I said I didn't intend any judgment, I just meant that I wasn't sitting on a high horse, looking down and saying "ooooh, look at you, you've got a prob-lemmmmm!" because I had (and have) many myself, as we all do, and have needed to do some deep digging and forgiving and praying.
Anyway, all the best to ya
When I said I didn't intend any judgment, I just meant that I wasn't sitting on a high horse, looking down and saying "ooooh, look at you, you've got a prob-lemmmmm!" because I had (and have) many myself, as we all do, and have needed to do some deep digging and forgiving and praying.
Anyway, all the best to ya
@ Chey60
Aren´t you manipulating the Biblical account? (Good tip, here: ...be wise and not let women manipulate or control them...)
"...the woman had taken things into her own hands because the man sat there and let a serpent talk to her.. he didn't take care of the situation so she did in the way she knew how..which was not a good way.. So men need to "man up' and be wise and not let women manipulate or control them..."
It sounds sweet and naive!
If that place was a garden, Adam could have decided to take a walk around it, same way he ALLOWED her to walk with THE EQUAL freedom both were entitled. Adam has his space (and time) as she was also free to have hers... After the fall (read once again Gen., please) says the Biblical account, men were to rule (or lead) HIS wife (as a punishment?). That seemed to be the "normal" way UNDER marriage, and not for every woman he may find, elsewhere.
Aren´t you manipulating the Biblical account? (Good tip, here: ...be wise and not let women manipulate or control them...)
"...the woman had taken things into her own hands because the man sat there and let a serpent talk to her.. he didn't take care of the situation so she did in the way she knew how..which was not a good way.. So men need to "man up' and be wise and not let women manipulate or control them..."
It sounds sweet and naive!
If that place was a garden, Adam could have decided to take a walk around it, same way he ALLOWED her to walk with THE EQUAL freedom both were entitled. Adam has his space (and time) as she was also free to have hers... After the fall (read once again Gen., please) says the Biblical account, men were to rule (or lead) HIS wife (as a punishment?). That seemed to be the "normal" way UNDER marriage, and not for every woman he may find, elsewhere.
Here´s the funny idea: "we women, given enough rope and ammunition can all turn controlling..."
"...it would take a strong man of God to love, nurture and care for a woman and still say NO to some things..."
-No, please! Don´t touch it. Said Adam.
Since then Eve called Adam manipulative:
This ad is social and visualy manipulative, those days of wars. (Courtesy of U.S.A)
Russian girls:
As a woman I would never classify all women as manipulators and I wouldn't classify all men as manipulators.
You have to know there is a difference between a regenerate and an unregenerate person. We don't control people so we have to be careful of our dealings with unregenerate people. It is easy for anyone to get attached to another person regardless of their regenerate/unregenerate status so you might have to just be aware that unregenerates don't share your beliefs. They could some day but right now they don't so be careful how deep you get with them. God says we are fooled by appearances and our old flesh nature likes to work contrary to God's counsel.
Look for the people that have the eyes of love and don't regard you as an object for sex or money or some other idol they are serving.
Sometimes you can actually see people looking at you with lust instead of love and that ought to warn you.
People get in trouble when they mix love and lust up....that is the powerful super combo that can really hurt you so walk carefully and ask the Lord to send you the gift of discernment.
You don't want to cut the unbelievers off from God's grace but you don't want them rough handling you either.
You have to know there is a difference between a regenerate and an unregenerate person. We don't control people so we have to be careful of our dealings with unregenerate people. It is easy for anyone to get attached to another person regardless of their regenerate/unregenerate status so you might have to just be aware that unregenerates don't share your beliefs. They could some day but right now they don't so be careful how deep you get with them. God says we are fooled by appearances and our old flesh nature likes to work contrary to God's counsel.
Look for the people that have the eyes of love and don't regard you as an object for sex or money or some other idol they are serving.
Sometimes you can actually see people looking at you with lust instead of love and that ought to warn you.
People get in trouble when they mix love and lust up....that is the powerful super combo that can really hurt you so walk carefully and ask the Lord to send you the gift of discernment.
You don't want to cut the unbelievers off from God's grace but you don't want them rough handling you either.
Here´s the funny idea: "we women, given enough rope and ammunition can all turn controlling..."
"...it would take a strong man of God to love, nurture and care for a woman and still say NO to some things..."
-No, please! Don´t touch it. Said Adam.
Since then Eve called Adam manipulative:
This ad is social and visualy manipulative, those days of wars. (Courtesy of U.S.A)
Russian girls:
You know this is a very descriptive picture.
I once knew a Pentecostal girl in high school and she always wore long skirts down to the ankle. Later I heard the bible said no cross dressing between the sexes.
I thought the girl was obeying this Old Testament rule then I found after reading up on it further much later that God wasn't saying women should not wear pants.
What the Old Testament actually,said,was that women should not be wearing military gear so that means God didn't want women to serve in the military.
My thoughts on spotting unhealthy people / relationships:
How do they respond when someone tells them no or will not / cannot do what they want? Those who haven't learned a decent way of coping with disappointment or opposition ….. yeah just don't get involved.
Do you feel like you are constantly having to do things to keep this person happy? Are you starting to feel trapped or resent some of the things you feel like you have to do?
Are things that you expect to be freely given in a relationship withheld and used as bargaining tools to get what this person wants?
Ok hope this helps people avoid future bad relationships.
How do they respond when someone tells them no or will not / cannot do what they want? Those who haven't learned a decent way of coping with disappointment or opposition ….. yeah just don't get involved.
Do you feel like you are constantly having to do things to keep this person happy? Are you starting to feel trapped or resent some of the things you feel like you have to do?
Are things that you expect to be freely given in a relationship withheld and used as bargaining tools to get what this person wants?
Ok hope this helps people avoid future bad relationships.
Good!
At least I have an idea of these:
God didn´t wanted intimate parts were seen (Exo 20:26 You shall not ascend by steps to my altar, lest your nakedness be revealed.) to avoid ppl´s eyes were moved to lust.
Actual fashion is MANIPULATIVE. I can wear pants that would help me to lure ppl away and, if I was wearing Hawaiian skirts, people I don´t consider, without my thinking of, would feel offended or drawn.
Additionally, I think He thought about each gender´s role but, what you said about militarism, is a good idea too.
At least I have an idea of these:
God didn´t wanted intimate parts were seen (Exo 20:26 You shall not ascend by steps to my altar, lest your nakedness be revealed.) to avoid ppl´s eyes were moved to lust.
Actual fashion is MANIPULATIVE. I can wear pants that would help me to lure ppl away and, if I was wearing Hawaiian skirts, people I don´t consider, without my thinking of, would feel offended or drawn.
Additionally, I think He thought about each gender´s role but, what you said about militarism, is a good idea too.
B
This goes for both women and men.
You can tell a manipulator by their ability to be in the present moment with you in an earnestly attentive way and also by their eyes. If a person seems to always be preoccupied or lives in the future only they'll likely turn out to be manipulating. Usually the eyes of an individual will give a clue to what's going on inside them.
You can tell a manipulator by their ability to be in the present moment with you in an earnestly attentive way and also by their eyes. If a person seems to always be preoccupied or lives in the future only they'll likely turn out to be manipulating. Usually the eyes of an individual will give a clue to what's going on inside them.
It makes me sad when other women so misunderstand Genesis that they think of us as a gender as being under men. As a theologian, I have done extensive study on Hebrew words and correlation relating to this topic, specifically in Gen. 3:16. In Genesis 3, God only cursed two things: the ground and the serpent. For Eve, the only supernatural way in which God intervened is in increasing her conception and her childbearing. For the rest, he predicted that she would still desire her husband (NOT to rule over him: that is a gross mistranslation) though he himself (emphasis in the original) would rule over her. It is more of a foretelling of misogyny and domestic violence rather than God putting woman under man's thumb. And the New Testament clearly credits Adam as the first sinner as his sin was deliberate, while Eve was tricked. And no, that doesn't mean that all women as a gender are more easily deceived. The only gender-based submission is a wife to her own husband, and even that is within a mutually submissive relationship (Eph. 5:21).
Case in point: after repeatedly telling Abraham that Ishmael is not to have a place in the line of blessing, God had to command him to obey his wife (Gen. 21:12). David listened to Abigail's prophecy and obeyed her (1 Sam. 25:35). Deborah was the religious and spiritual leader of the nation of Israel, led a victorious army, and ushered in a generation of peace. Esther defied her husband and saved a nation. Priscilla was a church leader alongside her husband and taught Paul and Apollos. Phoebe was a deaconess.
The fallacy that men need to keep women under control just isn't true. As joint-heirs in Christ, men and women are to hold each other accountable; but we are never commanded to control another person (not even in a WISE way).
Case in point: after repeatedly telling Abraham that Ishmael is not to have a place in the line of blessing, God had to command him to obey his wife (Gen. 21:12). David listened to Abigail's prophecy and obeyed her (1 Sam. 25:35). Deborah was the religious and spiritual leader of the nation of Israel, led a victorious army, and ushered in a generation of peace. Esther defied her husband and saved a nation. Priscilla was a church leader alongside her husband and taught Paul and Apollos. Phoebe was a deaconess.
The fallacy that men need to keep women under control just isn't true. As joint-heirs in Christ, men and women are to hold each other accountable; but we are never commanded to control another person (not even in a WISE way).
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First, women were born into a controlling nature..and in the garden because of that , we were given men to "rule over us".. not in a tyrannical way but a WISE way ..making sure we don't manipulate or control them.... and men, were to also cover women...because in the garden, they basically didn't man up..
So.
With jesus, His Holy Spirit, we can overcome the need to control...
But on the other hand...just like in the garden...the woman had taken things into her own hands because the man sat there and let a serpent talk to her.. he didn't take care of the situation so she did in the way she knew how..which was not a good way.. So men need to "man up' and be wise and not let women manipulate or control them.
If a woman is chasing you..she is not the one..
if a woman is trying to get you to show her you like her in ways you just don't want to.. which means you don't like her. then she's not the one.
If a woman is always degrading you she is not the one..
However...if you are not a leader, not sold out to Christ and not able to stand against the enemy in your own life or hers..then YOU are not the one..
Remember. just like any fallen nature.. we women, given enough rope and ammunition can all turn controlling..
it would take a strong man of God to love, nurture and care for a woman and still say NO to some things...
Women dress provocatively to manipulate you are right. I don't agree with those who say that's not true. They may not mean it to be that way but they think that's what will draw a man..so instead of it being by the spirit of GOD, they dress that way to draw ...
So steer clear of a woman who isn't modest.. A woman can dress in a very attractive manner..and as long as she is not being immodest then there is nothing wrong with that and that is not manipulation..
God gave you wisdom.. you have to lean on Him for that ...because you can sense when a woman is being that way or not.
Also you can't spot an honest christian woman... you have to get to know them..if you attend a bible believing church then you should be able to get to know many christian women there.. then decide what you are looking for and stick with that .[/QUOTE]
That was great. Thanks a lot... I thoroughly appreciate the entire post.
So.
With jesus, His Holy Spirit, we can overcome the need to control...
But on the other hand...just like in the garden...the woman had taken things into her own hands because the man sat there and let a serpent talk to her.. he didn't take care of the situation so she did in the way she knew how..which was not a good way.. So men need to "man up' and be wise and not let women manipulate or control them.
If a woman is chasing you..she is not the one..
if a woman is trying to get you to show her you like her in ways you just don't want to.. which means you don't like her. then she's not the one.
If a woman is always degrading you she is not the one..
However...if you are not a leader, not sold out to Christ and not able to stand against the enemy in your own life or hers..then YOU are not the one..
Remember. just like any fallen nature.. we women, given enough rope and ammunition can all turn controlling..
it would take a strong man of God to love, nurture and care for a woman and still say NO to some things...
Women dress provocatively to manipulate you are right. I don't agree with those who say that's not true. They may not mean it to be that way but they think that's what will draw a man..so instead of it being by the spirit of GOD, they dress that way to draw ...
So steer clear of a woman who isn't modest.. A woman can dress in a very attractive manner..and as long as she is not being immodest then there is nothing wrong with that and that is not manipulation..
God gave you wisdom.. you have to lean on Him for that ...because you can sense when a woman is being that way or not.
Also you can't spot an honest christian woman... you have to get to know them..if you attend a bible believing church then you should be able to get to know many christian women there.. then decide what you are looking for and stick with that .[/QUOTE]
That was great. Thanks a lot... I thoroughly appreciate the entire post.
C
the fallacy that men need to keep women under control just isn't true. As joint-heirs in Christ, men and women are to hold each other accountable; but we are never commanded to control another person (not even in a WISE way).
Misty77 you misunderstood my whole comment.
The term Desire is the same one that God used when he told Cain "sin will desire you " it's not a good term.. it's a term of control... Sin wants to control you..same for Women.. women want to control..
sorry ...those are in the original meanings.
And I didn't mean women would be under a man's thumb. It's a ROLE ...and it's in it's place.
Also.. it doesn't have to be a mutual submission. Look at the new testament scriptures where God says "if any of the (husbands) do not obey the word they may be won over by the "chaste and respectful" behavior of their wives.
You did list a lot of situations where through prayer and wisdom from God women reversed the roles however when a woman gives her husband some wisdom and he runs with it, he isn't submitting he is listening to sound advise (hopefully it's sound) and wisely choosing. Often two heads are better than one and it's not wrong to give heed to your wife's ideas if they are wise.
in a marriage, husband and wife are equal in value but different in roles.
Only women who find the term submission abhorrent would take offense to that.
I do agree Adam sinned... Eve was deceived and I still stick with my story that Adam was passive and let her be deceived.... Though yes he may have been walking at the time or whatever ideas someone else here had, she still held the fruit and he did NOT refuse to eat in fact he again passively gave in.
However I know women.. I am one after all.. I have counseled many women and they rarely see their dominance and lack of submission...they never see their rebellion. They will go on about their husband and how controlling they are and I sit and think...wow there are two sides to every coin. AND NO before you misunderstand something else I am saying, I am not saying abuse is right...no matter the triggers that's a whole other issue inside that man... but I am saying that women can be triggers in that sense..and they are then both unhealthy.
so that is my rebuttal. I just wanted to be able to defend my statements since women mostly, get that word "DESIRE" so wrong...
Misty77 you misunderstood my whole comment.
The term Desire is the same one that God used when he told Cain "sin will desire you " it's not a good term.. it's a term of control... Sin wants to control you..same for Women.. women want to control..
sorry ...those are in the original meanings.
And I didn't mean women would be under a man's thumb. It's a ROLE ...and it's in it's place.
Also.. it doesn't have to be a mutual submission. Look at the new testament scriptures where God says "if any of the (husbands) do not obey the word they may be won over by the "chaste and respectful" behavior of their wives.
You did list a lot of situations where through prayer and wisdom from God women reversed the roles however when a woman gives her husband some wisdom and he runs with it, he isn't submitting he is listening to sound advise (hopefully it's sound) and wisely choosing. Often two heads are better than one and it's not wrong to give heed to your wife's ideas if they are wise.
in a marriage, husband and wife are equal in value but different in roles.
Only women who find the term submission abhorrent would take offense to that.
I do agree Adam sinned... Eve was deceived and I still stick with my story that Adam was passive and let her be deceived.... Though yes he may have been walking at the time or whatever ideas someone else here had, she still held the fruit and he did NOT refuse to eat in fact he again passively gave in.
However I know women.. I am one after all.. I have counseled many women and they rarely see their dominance and lack of submission...they never see their rebellion. They will go on about their husband and how controlling they are and I sit and think...wow there are two sides to every coin. AND NO before you misunderstand something else I am saying, I am not saying abuse is right...no matter the triggers that's a whole other issue inside that man... but I am saying that women can be triggers in that sense..and they are then both unhealthy.
so that is my rebuttal. I just wanted to be able to defend my statements since women mostly, get that word "DESIRE" so wrong...