Purgatory?

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Feb 9, 2011
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#1
Does it exist? I was taught it existed for people that lived really good lives but that werent christian or for some reason didnt make it into heaven yet. I was taught this in Religion class in Catholic school. Now I notice a lot of people don't believe in it.

I was taught it is sort of like a temporary hell where you suffer for a while but you will definately eventually get to heaven and the more people on earth praying for the souls in purgatory the shorter amount of time you have to spend there.

Any truth to this?
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#2
Purgatory is a Roman Catholic belief, mostly derived from the Apocrypha.
 
Feb 9, 2011
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#3
Does that mean it is less valid? I also heard some Catholics are now outlawing it....as if it doesnt exist...but I was taught it did. Which is it? And no other form of christian believes in it?
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#4
Does that mean it is less valid?
Speaking neutrally, it depends on the validity of the Apocrypha.

I don't see any reason to see the Apocrypha as part of the Canon, so I have no reason to believe in Purgatory. The Catholics however, accept the Apocrypha and they call it the Deuterocannon. For them they have reason to within those presuppositions.


And no other form of christian believes in it?
I don't know how many do, but if one takes the basis of Sola Scriptura (or atleast scripture at what it says, maybe not as a soul authority) you'll not find anything that would be purgatory.
 
Aug 18, 2011
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#5
Hi, this is an interesting subject. Some early Christian writers of the Eastern Orthodox Church (you may have heard of it) have expressed the belief in a purgatory like afterlife, but not in the same purgatory that the Catholic's believe in. And yes, it is an official Roman Catholic teaching that purgatory is real.

This is an article by St Issac of Syrian, a 7th century bishop of Syria. He is a Saint of the Eastern Orthodox Church, though his views expressed in this article are not an official teaching of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Universal salvation - St Isaac of Nineveh and Syrian Mysticism / - Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev

This is a shocking teaching to many Protestants because the thought of eternal hell fire has been so integrated into their way of thinking.
 
O

Olive_Branch

Guest
#6
Jesus never spoke of a purgatory, He did speak of hell however :) That is probably why" it is so intergrated into our way of thinking".
If we can get cast into a purgatory after we die, then Christ died in vain. The Cross was pointless.
The best answer to this question dear is, just surrender your life fully to Jesus. :) He is the one that will give the powerful and assuring verdict of peace.. meaning you can know where your internal Destiny is... He said "I go to prepare a place for YOU!" :D
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#7
Jesus never spoke of a purgatory, He did speak of hell however :) That is probably why" it is so intergrated into our way of thinking".
If we can get cast into a purgatory after we die, then Christ died in vain. The Cross was pointless.
The best answer to this question dear is, just surrender your life fully to Jesus. :) He is the one that will give the powerful and assuring verdict of peace.. meaning you can know where your internal Destiny is... He said "I go to prepare a place for YOU!" :D
Purgatory is not a way out of Hell for those that have been condemned. Everyone in Purgatory is already saved and going to heaven. As the Catechism explains

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611
I don't know how many do, but if one takes the basis of Sola Scriptura (or atleast scripture at what it says, maybe not as a soul authority) you'll not find anything that would be purgatory.
Wouldn't that depend on which canon you accept? Because if you accept any Christian canon but the Protestant one then you would necessarily have to grapple with the passages in I Maccabees among others.
 
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Maddog

Guest
#8
I look at it like this. Presence in heaven requires perfect cleanliness and freedom from sin. I think it's safe to say that most of us are not quite perfect when we die, so it follows that there must be some stage of cleaning or purging before we enter heaven. I think even Protestants have to admit that something needs to happen before a soul is admitted into heaven even if they disagree with the doctrine of Purgatory.

So, for myself, I have no rational objection to it, neither have I any doctrinal objections to it. I'm not sure I'd lay down my life defending the claim, but I'm happy to go along with the idea. In fact, before now I have been known to offer up a few prayers for the souls in Purgatory, so I suppose that means I must believe in its existence.
 
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rodogg

Guest
#9
I look at it like this. Presence in heaven requires perfect cleanliness and freedom from sin. I think it's safe to say that most of us are not quite perfect when we die, so it follows that there must be some stage of cleaning or purging before we enter heaven. I think even Protestants have to admit that something needs to happen before a soul is admitted into heaven even if they disagree with the doctrine of Purgatory.

So, for myself, I have no rational objection to it, neither have I any doctrinal objections to it. I'm not sure I'd lay down my life defending the claim, but I'm happy to go along with the idea. In fact, before now I have been known to offer up a few prayers for the souls in Purgatory, so I suppose that means I must believe in its existence.
What you said. :p None of us can enter Heaven with the slightest speck of sin on our souls, and none of us are perfect, so we need a place of purification before we enter into the perfection of Heaven. Some people die and are neither bad enough to go down (to hell) or good enough to go up (to heaven) so there needs to be a place for them to become truely free of their sin before they enter into heaven. It's on this that Catholics and other denominations will have disputes, including whether or not we should pray for the dead, but those in Purgatory cannot pray for themselves, and need us to do so, so that they can be purified and enter Heaven. If you were there, YOU would want someone to be praying for you!!
 
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Timofree

Guest
#10
What you said. :p None of us can enter Heaven with the slightest speck of sin on our souls, and none of us are perfect, so we need a place of purification before we enter into the perfection of Heaven. Some people die and are neither bad enough to go down (to hell) or good enough to go up (to heaven) so there needs to be a place for them to become truely free of their sin before they enter into heaven. It's on this that Catholics and other denominations will have disputes, including whether or not we should pray for the dead, but those in Purgatory cannot pray for themselves, and need us to do so, so that they can be purified and enter Heaven. If you were there, YOU would want someone to be praying for you!!
Truth is were all bad enough for hell, but for Salvation through the Lord Jesus. Jesus is perfect and that will never change........nobody could hope to stand before God but for Jesus sacrifice :)

Anybody who's put their trust in Jesus, and repented is now the righteousness of God in Christ, whether they feel like it or not......praise Him for His totally unmerrited grace.

It.is.finished!!! :D
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#11
Purgatory is not biblical. The idea is of a place where one can be purged of sin and eventually attain heaven.

No such thing. It is appointed unto a man once to die and then face judgment. We will be judged for deeds done while in the body.
 
H

hislastwalk

Guest
#12
there's not really any place in the bible that talks about it.
however, the bible mentions 'hades' which means 'place of the unseen' when we think of hades we think of hell. but I believe when we die, we don't go to heaven right away, because the bible says "No one has ever seen heaven" so that must mean we go somewhere though... there's two theories.. our soul just rests... or we go to this 'hades' or 'place of the unseen' 'till Jesus comes back. Maybe this explains ghosts? idk. it's just an idea though, not a fact, no one truly knows until they die :)
 
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kayem77

Guest
#13
Jesus sacrifice was ENOUGH to wash our sins away. Sayin that we need to be purified after we die is like saying that Jesus sacrifice was not sufficient, He died for ALL our sins, big and small, they were all covered by his blood.

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#14
Apparently both my and Maddog's posts went straight over the head of some people....
 
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Kyouken

Guest
#16
I decided against posting this before, but I think I should have. After we are born again, are spirits are identical to Jesus'. 1st Corinthians 3:16 - "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" and 1st John 4:17 - "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." Also, God views us as we are in our spirit. Romans 3:23-24 (more like 21-26) - "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," and 1st Corinthians 6:11 - "And such were some of you. But you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." Also, God showed me this when I was looking for the right verse -> Hebrews 10:14 - "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."
 
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kayem77

Guest
#17
Apparently both my and Maddog's posts went straight over the head of some people....
Oh no they didnt ;) but I don't see the Scripture there, that's all.
 

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2009
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#18
Oh no they didnt ;) but I don't see the Scripture there, that's all.
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built." - (1 Peter 3:18-20 NIV)
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#19
Oh no they didnt ;) but I don't see the Scripture there, that's all.
Oh no it's not because you disagreed that I said that. I said that because you tore down what purgatory isn't and not what it is.
 
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Timofree

Guest
#20
Jesus is enough though.......I wouldn't dare stand before The Perfect God but in His righteousness......as soon as I trusted Jesus as my Saviour I was ready to meet God........

No amount of prayers by other people could put me right with God, although sometimes my human nature feels like it needs to do good works to stand before God.......that's just my pride, and by His grace, I'm asking Jesus to take that captive