do you believe that God knows the future?

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Dec 9, 2013
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#41
I don't know. I think free will can exist alongside peeping into the future. I consider it akin to watching family videos. At the time they were recorded everyone had free will to do what they wanted to do. I think to someone who is the Alpha and Omega, looking at all of history would be akin to watching family videos. People had plenty of free will to make choices. But as far as God's knowledge of them is concerned, the events are already on tape. Just because the events are recorded down and you can rewind and fast forward doesn't erase the fact that people made choices with their free will that they cannot change. Maybe God could. But once it's recorded humans can't.
Ok you have refuted my argument because I did not allow for a timeless being that can see all of history simultaneously.

However, that means then God knows what will happen, and we have free-choice, so God is just seeing how it plays out.
Logically this means the future is not pre-determined and God is not in perfect control or in other words God gives up some of His sovereignty.

So God is not in control...
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#42
Ok you have refuted my argument because I did not allow for a timeless being that can see all of history simultaneously.

However, that means then God knows what will happen, and we have free-choice, so God is just seeing how it plays out.
Logically this means the future is not pre-determined and God is not in perfect control or in other words God gives up some of His sovereignty.

So God is not in control...
I think we can still be within God's control without God being in control. I think you are right in one respect, though. God does in some practical sense give up a portion of his sovereignty. For example, he made Man rule over all of the animals on Earth. That is, he entrusted their care to us. He lets us choose for ourselves what we feel is right and in turn experience the benefits and the consequences of those actions. He doesn't just step in and stop us all of the time. We were made in his image. And that not only implies a great deal of power but a lot of responsibility as well. I think those whose will aligns with God's will make this world a better place. Those who are merciful rulers take care of their furry subjects. :) And those rulers like me make little castles for them and dress them in miniature renaissance clothing.

 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#43
Ok you have refuted my argument because I did not allow for a timeless being that can see all of history simultaneously.

However, that means then God knows what will happen, and we have free-choice, so God is just seeing how it plays out.
Logically this means the future is not pre-determined and God is not in perfect control or in other words God gives up some of His sovereignty.

So God is not in control...
The thing about God's sovereign will is that He choses not to enforce it, (kind of). God yielded His sovereignty to give man authority. His deal with Adam over the new creation was I'll Walk with you, Talk with you, Lend you an ear and Give you advise, but what you say Adam, that what goes. You Adam are the authority. So Adam gives that away to satan. God could have in His sovereign power taken it all back, but then that would put Him back in authority and that wasn't His intent, His will. His intent/will was for man to have authority. So to restore what He intended/willed meant a man had to take things back from satan. But who could do such a thing? Well, God, coming to us as a man. So the Messiah comes and indeed takes back authority. Hallelujah, not only does God still keep His sovereignty, but He now splits a 50/50 stake with man in the authority part of it. That's where our partnership comes in. It's His sovereign will that we participate with Him in the enforcement of His authority over creation. And we do that thru partnering in the gifts and manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Summary: God yields his will to give us the authority to participate in bringing His will to bear in this world, which was His original intent/will.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#44
There truly is an enormous body of irrefutable empirical evidence collaborating God's existence and the Christian worldview. That's a fact. Your ignorance of it in no way diminishes it. There also is a great body of Christians, past and present, whom assert that they have a living relationship with the one true living creator God as revealed in the bible some of whom assert to have also experienced supernatural miracles (I am one of them having had a healing miracle at a Christian event once). That's also a fact.

Now let's deal with your other false assertions. The presence of disagreement does not invalidate the possibility of truth. Truth exists anyways. Truth exists regardless. So your false assertion that because various theological perspectives exist this therefore equates to Christianity being false is itself a very elementary fallacious failure of logic on your part.

Your final false assertion is that "almost no historical scholars associated with research concerning Christ's general existence believe that there's any reliable evidence of his being entombed and resurrected." Obviously there are a great many historians, both past and present, that are Christians who do believe that Christ was entombed and resurrected. You're making an ignorant false assertion here.

Christian universities, for example, are staffed with them and there are a great many Christian universities. But Christian historians have also been involved in modern universities from the third century to the present. In fact, all of the most prestigious universities in the UK and U.S. began as Christian universities and they were staffed originally with Christian historians. Today, Christian historians permeate the field of history and as Christians they have and continue to argue for the proofs of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm sorry that you're so ignorant of these observable and easily confirmable facts.


...What? There isn't an "enormous body" of "irrefutable empirical evidence" concerning God's existence, much less the general Christian conception of God -- or, for that matter, Christianity's various theological perspectives and applications. To assert that eyewitness testimony of Jesus is tantamount to "irrefutable evidence" of his divinity, or that such testimony validates Christian theology in general, for instance, is to defy the general historical consensus concerning aspects of his life. Almost no historical scholars associated with research concerning Christ's general existence believe that there's any reliable evidence of his being entombed and resurrected, as an example.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#45
Hugh Ross's 'Beyond the Cosmos' scientifically and philosophically refutes your assertion here and addresses issues like 'How can my choices be totally "free" if God is in control of all things at all times and knows the end from the beginning?'

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Cosmos-Recent-Discoveries-Astrophysics/dp/0984061487




I don't have the time to regurgitate the entire book for you like a mother bird feeding its young... lol. ;) So read it.


However, that means then God knows what will happen, and we have free-choice, so God is just seeing how it plays out. Logically this means the future is not pre-determined and God is not in perfect control or in other words God gives up some of His sovereignty. So God is not in control...