Good people go to heaven??

[jes]

Hey guys I just started reading a book how good is good enough? and it essentially wrestles with the idea of what it takes to get into heaven and was wondering what you guys thought about how you get into heaven. most people say if you are a good christian and do good stuff you will get there but i am finding that is not the case. Input? thanks

 

[T_Laurich]

Faith and faith alone... Trust in Gods grace you are saved... I.E. Abraham and Moses and Elijah (didn't know Jesus as a person, yet knew God as what He is)... God's grace is also shown through Jesus our Lord and Savior...

No amount of works will ever save you... That is the one thing I love about Christianity, its the only religion I have found that says man kind is doomed, and no amount of doing good will ever outweigh the bad, because you are a sinner...

 

[Exoaria]

Heaven and Hell are doctrines. They're widely accepted speculation to the point that preaching anything different is considered heresy. The Bible doesn't talk about a place that you go to. Ever. It talks about being away from the body and present with the Lord and the Kingdom approaching.

You're asking a very broad eschatological question.
The typical orthodox Christian answer is this: "You can only get to Heaven by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is by faith alone that you have been saved. This faith that has saved you will lead you to do the good works that the Lord has prepared for you."

Again, it's a doctrine we've created by assembled letters of Paul writing on vague topics to different churches that he had established at the time, and some prophesies that Jesus had made.

If you want to make the Christians happy, just parrot the first example I gave you. If you want to start thinking for yourself, open your Bible and start reading through the book of Matthew and then go to Romans straight after. Note down every mention of the celestial realm and try to connect some dots and just ask God Himself to bring you revelation— it won't happen straight away, but it's fun as ever studying and experiencing the manifestation of Christ in your life.

If you want my opinion, Heaven isn't a physical location, but rather a reality and work that has been done inside of us in order to manifest itself here on earth through us. Where we go when we die is purely in the realm of speculation. People will go "but.. but.. REVELATION", just Google preterism and make up your own mind. God is bigger than anything we can limit him to. Don't get wrapped up in doctrine, explore it yourself, don't rely on people here and if you have questions give them to God. He's not incapable of revealing truth to you, otherwise He would not be God.

 

[T_Laurich]

Heaven and Hell are doctrines. They're widely accepted speculation to the point that preaching anything different is considered heresy. The Bible doesn't talk about a place that you go to. Ever. It talks about being away from the body and present with the Lord and the Kingdom approaching.

You're asking a very broad eschatological question.
The typical orthodox Christian answer is this: "You can only get to Heaven by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is by faith alone that you have been saved. This faith that has saved you will lead you to do the good works that the Lord has prepared for you."

Again, it's a doctrine we've created by assembled letters of Paul writing on vague topics to different churches that he had established at the time, and some prophesies that Jesus had made.

If you want to make the Christians happy, just parrot the first example I gave you. If you want to start thinking for yourself, open your Bible and start reading through the book of Matthew and then go to Romans straight after. Note down every mention of the celestial realm and try to connect some dots and just ask God Himself to bring you revelation— it won't happen straight away, but it's fun as ever studying and experiencing the manifestation of Christ in your life.

If you want my opinion, Heaven isn't a physical location, but rather a reality and work that has been done inside of us in order to manifest itself here on earth through us. Where we go when we die is purely in the realm of speculation. People will go "but.. but.. REVELATION", just Google preterism and make up your own mind. God is bigger than anything we can limit him to. Don't get wrapped up in doctrine, explore it yourself, don't rely on people here and if you have questions give them to God. He's not incapable of revealing truth to you, otherwise He would not be God.

I see you disagree with the thesis I stated, but you don't put down your point of view... I just think its funny because romans talks the most about the fact that by faith alone we are saved... Yet, by the way you have articulated your argument, you seem to disagree, and consider my point of view as you indirectly stated 'brainwashed'.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

*shuffles in*

I think that we are saved by faith alone
but that anyone who is truly saved will as a result of this do good deeds
and that there are some who say they are saved but are not :/
but again, yes, I think we are saved by faith

*shuffles out*

 

[jes]

The bible talks about many Christians that get to the gates of judgment and claim Christ as father and he in return says "I don't even know you" I believe that these will be "christians" in the following categories, ones that think salvation is brought through a prayer with no intent to back it up, ones that base their religion of of doing good deeds for the sake of doing good deeds, and ones that have no personal relationship with Christ. I believe that salvation is brought through a daily decision to walk with god as a living personal relationship, and as opposed to being good, failing (frequently) and walking in his grace. deeds such as just saying a prayer and doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing are empty. I think it all comes down to walking in his grace and having a functional love relationship with him.

 

[Kia123]

I think that we with faith in God our actions should show our love, therefore its partially both

 

[jes]

in comparison to a human to human relationship when you say i love you that is with the assumption that you back it up with how you act

 

[Exoaria]

I see you disagree with the thesis I stated, but you don't put down your point of view... I just think its funny because romans talks the most about the fact that by faith alone we are saved... Yet, by the way you have articulated your argument, you seem to disagree, and consider my point of view as you indirectly stated 'brainwashed'.

Eschatology is purely in the realm of speculation. If I really disagreed with every fundamental point of Christianity I would not be on a chat network based around the religion— I really like you. I have nothing against you and your posts impart hope. Thank you for that. Just because I challenge doctrine does not mean that we are in opposition to each other.
I will never agree completely with what you or any other human on this earth says. But the fact that you have precious life means more to me than any theological stance you might take, and I value your stance regardless.

Just FYI: (in the simplest terms) I don't believe in following the Law of Moses and I don't believe that there's anything we can do to get on a better standing with God. We are His righteousness in Christ. Just clearing that up so that my original post isn't misinterpreted for legalism.

 

[Tintin]

Heaven and Hell are very real. The spiritual realm is far more real than this fallen reality in which we live. We don't go to Heaven forever when we die (as believers). Our home will be the New Heaven and the New Earth. The Bible makes it quite clear.

 

[Exoaria]

Heaven and Hell are very real. The spiritual realm is far more real than this fallen reality in which we live. We don't go to Heaven forever when we die (as believers). Our home will be the New Heaven and the New Earth. The Bible makes it quite clear.

Yes, most religions are comfortable with a form of Heaven, Hell and salvation. What you're saying is nothing new, I say this because it wasn't a response to the thread but an indirect response to me. I personally think it's egocentric to think that we have even the slightest handle on the spiritual afterlife based on our own understanding, and your opinion comes from a futuristic point of view so as as preterist— I'll have to humbly disagree.

 

[mystdancer50]

The Bible says that no one is good. When someone approaches Jesus and calls Him 'good', He says, "Why do you call Me good? There is no one good but God." So, good people do not exist. If only good people made it to heaven, it would be empty. Jesus also replied this way so that others would see who He truly was: God's only begotten Son, God incarnate, our Redeemer and Savior, the Christ.

That being said, the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. He is the way, the truth and the life and no one gets in without Him. So, the 'requirement' is salvation through Jesus Christ, making Him your Lord and Savior and truly, through Holy Spirit, living a life that is pleasing to Him.

Faith is vital and we must remember that faith without works is dead. You must have both. So, yes, you can believe in God, yet the Bible says that even the demons believe and tremble. So, you must have works. Well, what types of works, you may ask? This isn't about ministry, though that will definitely come if you're living your life for Christ, for we are all called to the ministry of reaching out to the lost of this world and showing the love of Christ to them. The works that must accompany faith, in my opinion, is the works of freedom. This is the turning away from sins, the abstaining from sin, the standing for Christ, the proclaiming of Christ by your very life. These, I believe, are the primary works that should accompany faith, without which, faith is merely lip service and is, therefore, dead.

 

[Careen]

GOOD PEOPLE CAN'T GO TO HEAVEN except through Messiah

 

[Isdaniel]

When both wicked and good dead there spirit goes hmmmmm


[h=3]Ecclesiastes 3[/h]
17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

 

[Isdaniel]

Who is going to heaven when heaven is coming on the earth ?

Revelation 21

King James Version (KJV)

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

[Nick01]

I think that we with faith in God our actions should show our love, therefore its partially both

I agree and disagree. I 100% agree that if we are Christians, then we will show our faith by what we do. However, those works do not play a role in saving us - they simply flow from and demonstrate our faith, and the work that Christ has already done.

Paul talks in Ephesians about being a new creation, made for good walks that God prepared in advance for us to do. The point at which you are saved is the point at which you are given faith in God - not a 'faith' that means you just rock up to church every once in a while, or say a once off prayer. It is a faith in which you really understand the work of Christ, and you believe it so much that it changes how you live. If I really believe a car is about to run me over in the middle of the road, I don't just dawdle and wait for it to run me over. I dive out of the way! If I really believe that God gaves his one and only Son that I might have eternal life, I don't just bum around - I listen to this Son, who tells me to pick up my cross and follow him!

You are saved only by Christ. Indeed, this is why we say we are saved now - the judgement is yet to come, but so sure is the hope of us who have faith in his atonement on our behalf, when we were still dead in our sins, that we can say with confidence that we are are ALREADY saved. Faith alone is faith alone. But as Martin Luther said, the faith that saves is never alone.

 

[Pipp]

All our righteousness are as filthy rags in the sight of God. There is none righteous , no not one. The wages of sin is death , BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus. Jesus said " No man can come unto me except my father which sent me draw him ..... " God gives all men a free will to chose whether to repent and call on God and trust in Jesus shed blood to atone or reject Christ and spend eternity in Hell when you die. You'll either be born twice and die once or be born once and die twice....

 

[Tintin]

Yes, most religions are comfortable with a form of Heaven, Hell and salvation. What you're saying is nothing new, I say this because it wasn't a response to the thread but an indirect response to me. I personally think it's egocentric to think that we have even the slightest handle on the spiritual afterlife based on our own understanding, and your opinion comes from a futuristic point of view so as as preterist— I'll have to humbly disagree.

I'm confused. Your profile says you're a Christian but you say you don't follow the Christian religion. Heaven and Hell do exist in many other religions but the Christian understanding is quite different. Also, there's nothing mysterious about the spiritual realm, in that they're laid out in the Bible as something very real. There are some topics the Bible is silent on or isn't overt about, but Heaven and Hell aren't two of them.

 

[MrHonest]

Hello Good people (in the Godly-goodness as in seeking to be like our Lord Jesus Christ) will go to heaven. But the good man defined by men as good will not.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Basically if you love God you will show it by example, aka works, and if you show your works you will do it faithfully. All the works and examples in faith are listed nicely by the books written by Paul and the letters to Thessalonaica. No matter how long you live as a Christian you will always have things to work on within yourself and around you to show your faith by works, examples. Faithfully doing it that is good and is a Godly thing to do.