Losing faith in Christianity

[persecuted]

Here is my attempt at the thread starting post.

I too find myself losing faith in Christianity at times.... but I'm not so sure it is for the same reasons.

Your post reminds me of certain contradictions in Christianity.... mostly that for all of the talk of love, anyone who reads the bible will see that we are headed for certain prophesies in Revelations which boast of how absolutely NO mercy will be afforded to the same people who we are called upon to love. That vengeance is the Lord's shows that when you "turn the other cheek" you're not doing it completely out of pacifism, you're doing it because God says to because He himself would like to smite the evil oppressor. To me, these realizations make Christians wonder what all of this "love" is really supposed to mean. True love, or mandated lip service? So I go and show love to some gay person and refuse to sanction them due to the rationale that I also have sin, fine but then how does one explain that this unrepented person might end up in hell burning for all of eternity? And that I am supposed to actually rejoice this as a goodly servant of God?

 

[Brandon777]

Here is my attempt at the thread starting post.

I too find myself losing faith in Christianity at times.... but I'm not so sure it is for the same reasons.

Your post reminds me of certain contradictions in Christianity.... mostly that for all of the talk of love, anyone who reads the bible will see that we are headed for certain prophesies in Revelations which boast of how absolutely NO mercy will be afforded to the same people who we are called upon to love. That vengeance is the Lord's shows that when you "turn the other cheek" you're not doing it completely out of pacifism, you're doing it because God says to because He himself would like to smite the evil oppressor. To me, these realizations make Christians wonder what all of this "love" is really supposed to mean. True love, or mandated lip service? So I go and show love to some gay person and refuse to sanction them due to the rationale that I also have sin, fine but then how does one explain that this unrepented person might end up in hell burning for all of eternity? And that I am supposed to actually rejoice this as a goodly servant of God?

You're absolutely correct in thinking that Christians are to withhold their wrath and replace it with meekness because it is God's job to do perform justice when sinners spit in the face of God their whole lives. This is not a contradiction. God's wrath for the unrepentant sinner is justice in motion. Jesus loved people by telling them to love God and how to better love God so that they won't have to experience this justice. Jesus' love is that which made a way for the deserving to have a way to be holy with God in heaven. So it depends on how you define the word love there. Yes, Christians are to love and reach out to every sinner with deep sincerity and not lip service. But rather to be forgiving, humble and kind as God is. God is kind for a time and then something has to give. This world can't keep going on the way it is. It's wrong. It has to end because there is so much wrong with it. God is good that's why He is going to create a new heaven and a new earth that is totally good where no sin can enter.

 

[BrittanyJones]

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

 

[Glauber_Brazil]

Well...
That's why I don't call myself a Christian.

Actually, I'm not even religious... But I don't like when people say: "Christianism sucks.... Christ is no Lord, here..."
I can only attribute the Christianism decay to Christians themselves. Really.

As I don't like what some of so-called Christians already did in history...
The same applies to other religions.

 

[Brandon777]

As I don't like what some of so-called Christians already did in history...
The same applies to other religions.

Tell me what events you're referring to and maybe I can help you with that.

 

[KesKristine]

If this were facebook....I would like this post. It doesn't sound like you are losing faith in Christianity to me, but losing faith in Christians. Don't put your faith in anyone but God. I think it’s wise to only put your faith in God; otherwise you will always be disappointed.

 

[persecuted]

You're absolutely correct in thinking that Christians are to withhold their wrath and replace it with meekness because it is God's job to do perform justice when sinners spit in the face of God their whole lives. This is not a contradiction. God's wrath for the unrepentant sinner is justice in motion. Jesus loved people by telling them to love God and how to better love God so that they won't have to experience this justice. Jesus' love is that which made a way for the deserving to have a way to be holy with God in heaven. So it depends on how you define the word love there. Yes, Christians are to love and reach out to every sinner with deep sincerity and not lip service. But rather to be forgiving, humble and kind as God is. God is kind for a time and then something has to give. This world can't keep going on the way it is. It's wrong. It has to end because there is so much wrong with it. God is good that's why He is going to create a new heaven and a new earth that is totally good where no sin can enter.

I like this writing of yours, it holds with my sense of things. What I wrote was a response to the original writer not so much the reason I myself have troubles with Christianity.

Since I mentioned my own such troubles I'll write it out now. What I fail to understand is why modern churches have become so selective in what seems to be mostly just trendy ways. I live in Canada and I think its pretty clear people are becoming less and less Christian all the time. But instead of fighting battles like lets say sunday shopping, all the emphasis is upon going abroad to the usual third world countries where it seems no matter how many missionairies have already been, nothing ever changes. Now I understand the concept of tirelessly trying to save people but when I look at what they are doing it seems more like attempts to ENABLE the sinners of such countries rather than to spread the Gospel and repent the sins that are destroying these countries in the first place. When I raise objections to the practises in these countries I'm accused of judging and other choice politically correct words. Yet I think if in some countries women are having an average of 5 children each out of wedlock and with 3 different fathers on average there is something more Christian to be done than just shipping in food for everyone and expecting people back in Canada to be making sacrafices so their systems can just keep going as is.Never understand why the standard here is to not have kids unless you can afford to raise them yourself but somehow its wrong to suggest the same for other peoples of the world. But again, since sin is becoming more the way of life here, you'd think Canadian Christians would be working to save the souls of everyone in their own back yard and not let everything slide with sin becoming the norm. I myself might be destined for hell for commiting all sorts of sins that are pretty much just accepted as "normal" here yet the ONLY thing Canadian Christians I come across are ever adamant about is that I should be giving money to their third world causes or else I'm a sinner.

 

[Brandon777]

I like this writing of yours, it holds with my sense of things. What I wrote was a response to the original writer not so much the reason I myself have troubles with Christianity.

Since I mentioned my own such troubles I'll write it out now. What I fail to understand is why modern churches have become so selective in what seems to be mostly just trendy ways. I live in Canada and I think its pretty clear people are becoming less and less Christian all the time. But instead of fighting battles like lets say sunday shopping, all the emphasis is upon going abroad to the usual third world countries where it seems no matter how many missionairies have already been, nothing ever changes. Now I understand the concept of tirelessly trying to save people but when I look at what they are doing it seems more like attempts to ENABLE the sinners of such countries rather than to spread the Gospel and repent the sins that are destroying these countries in the first place. When I raise objections to the practises in these countries I'm accused of judging and other choice politically correct words. Yet I think if in some countries women are having an average of 5 children each out of wedlock and with 3 different fathers on average there is something more Christian to be done than just shipping in food for everyone and expecting people back in Canada to be making sacrafices so their systems can just keep going as is. Never understand why the standard here is to not have kids unless you can afford to raise them yourself but somehow its wrong to suggest the same for other peoples of the world. But again, since sin is becoming more the way of life here, you'd think Canadian Christians would be working to save the souls of everyone in their own back yard and not let everything slide with sin becoming the norm.

What you say reminds me of something John Piper once said. Sending missionaries to countries is pointless unless the missionaries themselves are fully equipped with correct doctrine and a faith that is zealous and burning alive for God. You said: "I never understand why the standard here is to not have kids unless you can afford to raise them yourself but somehow its wrong to suggest the same for other peoples of the world." The first thing that God said to man was what? "Be fruitful and multiply." So I believe that people should multiply, but if they're not fruitful, maybe they shouldn't multiply? I understand that double standards are not logical, but think about this. It's difficult to know how to teach something when it's not perfectly clear in the Bible. That's where societies and governments step in to make the social norms of the culture. The Bible says this about giving. 2 Corinthians 8: 1-24

You said: "I myself might be destined for hell for commiting all sorts of sins that are pretty much just accepted as "normal" here yet the ONLY thing Canadian Christians I come across are ever adamant about is that I should be giving money to their third world causes or else I'm a sinner." That's not a healthy relationship with God. There is far more to following Jesus than giving money to third world countries although God loves a cheerful giver. I give to the American Bible Society because they give God's word instead of food or water. That's the best thing to give a society to build it up from poverty anyway! You say you're not sure if you're going to heaven or hell. Do you confess Jesus as Lord and strive to be holy as He is holy day by day? Do you show any of the fruits of the Spirit? And do you know that it is not by works that we are saved but only by God's grace through faith?

 

[persecuted]

What you say reminds me of something John Piper once said. Sending missionaries to countries is pointless unless the missionaries themselves are fully equipped with correct doctrine and a faith that is zealous and burning alive for God. You said: "I never understand why the standard here is to not have kids unless you can afford to raise them yourself but somehow its wrong to suggest the same for other peoples of the world." The first thing that God said to man was what? "Be fruitful and multiply." So I believe that people should multiply, but if they're not fruitful, maybe they shouldn't multiply? I understand that double standards are not logical, but think about this. It's difficult to know how to teach something when it's not perfectly clear in the Bible. That's where societies and governments step in to make the social norms of the culture. The Bible says this about giving. 2 Corinthians 8: 1-24

You said: "I myself might be destined for hell for commiting all sorts of sins that are pretty much just accepted as "normal" here yet the ONLY thing Canadian Christians I come across are ever adamant about is that I should be giving money to their third world causes or else I'm a sinner." That's not a healthy relationship with God. There is far more to following Jesus than giving money to third world countries although God loves a cheerful giver. I give to the American Bible Society because they give God's word instead of food or water. That's the best thing to give a society to build it up from poverty anyway! You say you're not sure if you're going to heaven or hell. Do you confess Jesus as Lord and strive to be holy as He is holy day by day? Do you show any of the fruits of the Spirit? And do you know that it is not by works that we are saved but only by God's grace through faith?

I'm sorry, I'm not sure if I caught your drift properly on your first paragraph. Are you saying that different standards of conduct are acceptable depending upon where you live from a christian perspective? If so are you suggesting then things like that since Canada is much more liberal than a Southern U.S. State, its actually perfectly okay to have a gay relationship in Toronto but not so in Alabama? (And of course I don't mean by the standards of the native population but by God.) Or to have a threesome in Vancouver but not so much in Texas? Cheat on your wife in Montreal but God will have none of that in Tennessee? This actually all leads to your second paragraph.

When I talk about my own chances of getting to heaven, what I mean is is that I like to THINK I'm a "good christian" and even on the conservative side but then when I read some things on this chatsite I'm aware others have a stronger view against them. There are things so accepted in Canada (and like I say, I never hear the churches complain about them) like sunday shopping, masturbation, girls wearing mini skirts, using the Lord's name in vain, drinking, shacking up before marriage, gay rights, accepting all religions equally, engraven images, driving an expensive car, having two cars, being in a blended family, eating pork, divorce, strip clubs, going to rock concerts where artists might suggest devil worship, violent video games, etc. that it becomes impossible to be particularly critical of them for the reason they are so accepted as not being harmful. Obviously the bible in many instances condemns such things. But what I am saying is that there is such a disconnect between reading the bible and present day society that whether I like it or not I'm very desensitized to some things and find it hard to accept them as sins. My favorite example being not keeping the sabbath day holy since its a ten commandment infringement and it is a so years ago thing to anyone around here. But there is my point, there are all of these things that are considered "no biggee" and the only time the church complains is when they don't get the ten dollars for their little third world causes, does God see things the same way? Probably not and I no doubt am missing numerous things that SHOULD be on the list that I honestly don't even know about and then what about that?

 

[Brandon777]

Follow Him where ever how ever.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure if I caught your drift properly on your first paragraph. Are you saying that different standards of conduct are acceptable depending upon where you live from a christian perspective?

It depends on what standards you're talking about. If you mean moral standards than no; if you mean cultural standards then yes. I was saying that it's to be expected that different cultures have different morals, then I gave you what I think the standard should be. And I gave you why it can be expected that there be differences in moral standards.

When I talk about my own chances of getting to heaven, what I mean is is that I like to THINK I'm a "good christian"...

The church where you are seems very weak to me. Staying connected to this site is a valuable resource. I took almost 4 years at a Bible College in Washington D.C. and so I tell people all the time to mail me with any questions or prayer requests they might have. We Christians are here to support each other, and yes you are on the right track when you say that there is more to following Christ then giving to a third world country. I think I'll address the first one of those proposed sins just for fun.

Sunday shopping. In the Old Testament there was a law that said everyone was expected to work six days a week and rest on the seventh, which happened to be Saturday for the Jewish people because that was the last day of the 7 day week. The idea was that you were being godly by doing the same thing God Himself did during the week of creation--working for 6 days, then resting on the seventh. Since this was God's law for His chosen people, I believe, logically one can say that it is the ideal situation. Soooo if you work a five day week like most Americans do, you should have something constructive to do on Saturday and then do nothing for sake of rest on Sunday. That's how we're built to be most happy and productive because we were made in the image of God. By the way, if I put in all the Bible references for this there would be four references.

From what I've seen in the Bible there is no specific answer to say about the sins that we are ignorant we are committing. But what it does say is that God is just and we have to trust that He knows how to run a universe correctly.