The Ultimate Conspiracy Theory

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Christ tells us Himself, those who do not follow Him are cast into the place created for satan and his minions. Why do you think satan is trying so hard to deceive you into walking into it?

Matthew 16:22"Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You." 23But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's.""
1 Peter 5:8"Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world."

2 Corinthians 2:10"But one whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ,[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]
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[TD="class: odd, width: 20%, bgcolor: #F0F9FF"]11so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes."

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Job 1:7The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it." 8The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."…

James 4:7"7Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.…"

Ephesians 6:10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.14Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,15and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;16in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

That is just to name a few... And from my own experience I have noticed something very profound. I always had a problem standing firm in the faith and fleeing sin. I would be able to live by the Spirit for a time, but I always felt weak against the temptations of the flesh, it was always a struggle to be conformed to Christ. It wasn't until I viewed all my temptations as being directly from Satan, that my Spiritual maturity skyrocketed and everything became easy. It was no longer hard to avoid looking at a woman lustfully , I no longer had a desire to steal. I no longer became angry or hateful towards people who did me wrong, but instead loved them. Certainly it is much easier to reject sin, when you begin to understand Satan is directly attempting to coerce you when you are being tempted.

Jesus had to be tempted by Satan and resist him before He started his ministry. Read about it and think about it for a while because that was meant to teach us something about Satan and what we must do to have our own effective ministry

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

I am in complete agreement with you, brother.

Are not all people slaves to sin and therefore their father/master is the devil?

John 8:44 "…43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.…"

People are corrupted by default, they serve Satan by default, they are slaves to sin by default. It is only through Christ and the Holy Spirit that we are freed from that slavery. So to think Satans influence is limited in the systems of the world is an error I believe. Satan cannot do anything he wants (he can not kill people outright, he would have to corrupt someone until they chose to kill another) (he does not control all money outright, he corrupts the minds of men to control money), he cannot force anyone to do anything they do not want to do, He corrupts, deceives and controls from behind the scenes. God has very set limits on his authority on this earth. Satan does possess the hearts and minds of unbelievers however..

But there are special groups of people who Satan does not need to corrupt. They have willfully chosen to serve him in exchange for the things of this world and the lusts of their flesh. That is the origin and nature of the secret societies, and they have always existed and through the secret societies, Satan has a direct physical influence in what occurs in the governments, banks, media, wars,etc... The secret societies control everything and you do not raise in their ranks unless you pledge your allegiance to Satan/Lucifer

 

[KJV1611]

I hold to these thoughts brother, "7 year tribulation, Antichrist covenant with Israel". I do not believe in a pre tribulation rapture or hell as an eternal place of torment for sinners though. Do you have a thread where you explain your thoughts on these "7 year tribulation, Antichrist covenant with Israel"?

Sorry, I don't Justin and I mean no offence about the subject but those things can't be found in the bible.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Sorry, I don't Justin and I mean no offence about the subject but those things can't be found in the bible.

I would never be offended brother. I am asking to hear what you believe to make my own conclusions on the matter. Do you have a pre-existing thread which talks about this? Otherwise you can tell me on this thread if you want.

 

[KJV1611]

I would never be offended brother. I am asking to hear what you believe to make my own conclusions on the matter. Do you have a pre-existing thread which talks about this? Otherwise you can tell me on this thread if you want.

I'm starting a thread on it in the bible discussion forum. Come join when you get a chance.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

I'm starting a thread on it in the bible discussion forum. Come join when you get a chance.

Ok I will, thank you.

 

[3Scoreand10]

If you examine the structure and practices of these denominations and churches with fresh eyes you will find many problems with how they conduct "church". I'll list a few examples:

Many of them have a hierarchy of men over other men. A priesthood/pastors/clergy and laymen. This is unBiblical as all believers are equal under Christ. While it is true that each member of the body has its own different purposes (and that there should exist elders within a community of believers), these denominations take it waay to far. You walk into these churches and speak with other members of the congregation for a few minutes, shake hands/greet each other and then take your place in a pew. The pews only face forwards, limiting your contact with your brothers and sisters and causing you to focus on the "important person" who then begins with his sermon. You sit there quietly until he finishes his performance and then "church" is over. You maybe hang out for a while and talk to friends saying things like "wow, I really liked the sermon" or "that was boring" but most tend to leave shortly after the "service". - This structure hurts everyone involved in it. For one it puts an unnecessary stress upon the "leader" to somehow be responsible for the salvation of everyone in the congregation through a one hour lesson once a week. Two, it creates a huge group of sheep which have no way to contribute to the body of Christ, thereby isolating them and making them easy target with little spiritual development. Three, it limits the Holy Spirits ability to lead and teach believers when they come together. - I believe that we Christians should come together as family, far more often and naturally than this. Remove the priesthood, remove the seats of honor, Jesus is our priest. Let each person share as they are led and let us interact as though we are all loved and valued members. Our faith does not grow by simply by hearing, but by loving, by giving. Each person has things to contribute and the greatest testimony of our faith is how unbelievers see us interacting with each other.

This structure is based off of Roman Catholicism and worldly ideals and created by Lucifer and by men who do not understand Christ.

There are more problems, but this is a good start. You see 'true' Christians can exist within these systems, but the systems themselves are not of God.

How can you make a judgment of all churches, if you have not visited each and every one.
It is true that some have a heirarcchy that dictate all or some actions, but not all.
I know for a fact that what you have said is not true amoung Baptist, because each Baptist church chooses their pastors and teachers. They also have the authority to dismiss them if they so choose.
Not a single statement in your post describes the Landmark Baptist Church I am a member of, nor those that I pastored for many years.

How do you worship and serve God? How do you know you are right? Who gave you the right to condem those of us who follow the command to assemple and worship?

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

How can you make a judgment of all churches, if you have not visited each and every one.
It is true that some have a heirarcchy that dictate all or some actions, but not all.
I know for a fact that what you have said is not true amoung Baptist, because each Baptist church chooses their pastors and teachers. They also have the authority to dismiss them if they so choose.
Not a single statement in your post describes the Landmark Baptist Church I am a member of, nor those that I pastored for many years.

How do you worship and serve God? How do you know you are right? Who gave you the right to condem those of us who follow the command to assemple and worship?

It is not a judgement of churches or even the people in them. And you are correct that each church is unique and that their structure varies. I also was not trying to confirm that these denominations are completely controlled by Lucifer. What I am confident in saying is that within these denominations there exist varying degrees of perversions in their practices and structures which have no Biblical basis. And if the practices and structure is not Biblical (not from God) than it is from the world/Lucifer. This in no way means that our brothers and sisters do not exist with in these denominations, it means that even within our own churches, tremendous deception and Satanic influence exists which is attempting to lead us astray and make our efforts in vain. And limit the power and work of the Holy Spirit.

Even within Roman Catholicism, the ultimate perversion of Christ's message and the true church, there are many who know and walk with Christ. Christians exist within these systems and their faith and understanding works against the ways of the Devil and the ways of the world.

Believers realized that the Roman Catholic Church was not of God and many millions died horrible deaths by the Catholic Churches hand. During the reformation, people turned from the practices and structure of the Catholic Church, but unfortunately, they did not turn away nearly enough. Only you can examine your church and determine what should stay and what should be thrown out when weighed against Scripture.

 

[3Scoreand10]

It is not a judgement of churches or even the people in them. And you are correct that each church is unique and that their structure varies. I also was not trying to confirm that these denominations are completely controlled by Lucifer. What I am confident in saying is that within these denominations there exist varying degrees of perversions in their practices and structures which have no Biblical basis. And if the practices and structure is not Biblical (not from God) than it is from the world/Lucifer. This in no way means that our brothers and sisters do not exist with in these denominations, it means that even within our own churches, tremendous deception and Satanic influence exists which is attempting to lead us astray and make our efforts in vain. And limit the power and work of the Holy Spirit.

Even within Roman Catholicism, the ultimate perversion of Christ's message and the true church, there are many who know and walk with Christ. Christians exist within these systems and their faith and understanding works against the ways of the Devil and the ways of the world.

Believers realized that the Roman Catholic Church was not of God and many millions died horrible deaths by the Catholic Churches hand. During the reformation, people turned from the practices and structure of the Catholic Church, but unfortunately, they did not turn away nearly enough. Only you can examine your church and determine what should stay and what should be thrown out when weighed against Scripture.

Every church is imperfect because all men are sinners.

Even Jesus dealt with this with His deciples, but He did not abandoned them. He continued to teach and lead.
I know there are times when it is a lost cause. I have been there too.
But we are to keep on keeping on as long as there are those who are being saved and learning.
I have always said that if there are those in the congregation that are not acting as a Christian should, that you have an opportunity to teach and lead them to Christ.
But also, sometimes they must be asked to leave if they will not change.
Don't give up on finding a local church to worship with.
Avoid those with the fancy building, large numbers, and Doctors for pastors.
If you have never attended a small Landmark Baptist or Missionary Baptist, give on a try.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Every church is imperfect because all men are sinners.

Even Jesus dealt with this with His deciples, but He did not abandoned them. He continued to teach and lead.
I know there are times when it is a lost cause. I have been there too.
But we are to keep on keeping on as long as there are those who are being saved and learning.
I have always said that if there are those in the congregation that are not acting as a Christian should, that you have an opportunity to teach and lead them to Christ.
But also, sometimes they must be asked to leave if they will not change.
Don't give up on finding a local church to worship with.
Avoid those with the fancy building, large numbers, and Doctors for pastors.
If you have never attended a small Landmark Baptist or Missionary Baptist, give on a try.

I value your insights on this brother. You make good points and assumed correctly that I am not currently a member of a local congregation. In fact, when I was younger I have been kicked out of churches for suggesting that we examine our practices with fresh eyes. I have attended a number of churches since then hoping to atleast meet good brothers and sisters which I can fellowship with. But I always left feeling like I had no real interaction with anyone. Just watch the show and off we go. But you are right, we should not give up hope, we should not be so discouraged. God is in control and knows what we need if we continue to pursue and seek it we will find it. I like your recommendations on which churches to avoid, these seem solid to me. Ultimately, God is in control, I tried to make that point clear. We do not need to feel like we are up against the whole world (even though the world and lucifer is against us).

 

[Stephen63]

I'm only going to give an opinion and ask for everyone's consideration. The title of this thread is indeed an oxymoron. I think there's truth here enshrouded in a lie. In the end, most of us would consider this whole thing as ridiculous. And to me, that's what's wanted in the end ..... to shrug it all off..... so nobody will believe ANY of it.

We know that the Antichrist system will control the economy, the governments, & especially the religions of the world. (this whole thing is set up for mankind to worship the Devil, remember?) The religions won't hand over authority unless they're infiltrated like everything else..... which means ALL the religious hierarchy must be corrupted for this to happen.

One of the habits of this Antichrist system is to hide the truth in plain sight..... to reveal the truth enshrouded in such a ridiculous manner that nobody believes it even though it is under their noses. When you take a look at this thread in this light, what do you see? Yep, the same thing all over again. Reverse psychology to dissuade us from the real truth.... Our denominations at state & national levels are corrupt. Bylaws are constantly being changed to give the top state & national leaders more power, just like the US government is doing. I see this in my own denomination. Consolidation of economic power (monopolies), consolidation of political power (UN, European Union), & consolidation of religious authority.(Universalism, for example)

Refuse this topic, yes. But don't close your eyes to the truth when you do. That's exactly what Satan wants.

 

[3Scoreand10]

I'm only going to give an opinion and ask for everyone's consideration. The title of this thread is indeed an oxymoron. I think there's truth here enshrouded in a lie. In the end, most of us would consider this whole thing as ridiculous. And to me, that's what's wanted in the end ..... to shrug it all off..... so nobody will believe ANY of it.

We know that the Antichrist system will control the economy, the governments, & especially the religions of the world. (this whole thing is set up for mankind to worship the Devil, remember?) The religions won't hand over authority unless they're infiltrated like everything else..... which means ALL the religious hierarchy must be corrupted for this to happen.

One of the habits of this Antichrist system is to hide the truth in plain sight..... to reveal the truth enshrouded in such a ridiculous manner that nobody believes it even though it is under their noses. When you take a look at this thread in this light, what do you see? Yep, the same thing all over again. Reverse psychology to dissuade us from the real truth.... Our denominations at state & national levels are corrupt. Bylaws are constantly being changed to give the top state & national leaders more power, just like the US government is doing. I see this in my own denomination. Consolidation of economic power (monopolies), consolidation of political power (UN, European Union), & consolidation of religious authority.(Universalism, for example)

Refuse this topic, yes. But don't close your eyes to the truth when you do. That's exactly what Satan wants.

While your statement is mostly true, there are exceptions.
Landmark Missionary Baptist do not have any kind of hierach or central control.
Each congregation is totally and completely independent and answers only to God.
All decision are made by the local congregation with each member having a equel voice and vote.
Because this is fact, each congregation has a distenct personality, and just like each of us, there is some good and some bad in each and every one.
I will also say this. Just because a church calls its self a Landmark Baptist, a Missionary Baptist, or a Landmark Missionary Baptist does not necessarily mean that God accepts them as His church. But I beleive that most are more in fellowship with God than other congregatons.

 

[Jimbone]

While your statement is mostly true, there are exceptions.
Landmark Missionary Baptist do not have any kind of hierach or central control.
Each congregation is totally and completely independent and answers only to God.
All decision are made by the local congregation with each member having a equel voice and vote.
Because this is fact, each congregation has a distenct personality, and just like each of us, there is some good and some bad in each and every one.
I will also say this. Just because a church calls its self a Landmark Baptist, a Missionary Baptist, or a Landmark Missionary Baptist does not necessarily mean that God accepts them as His church. But I beleive that most are more in fellowship with God than other congregatons.

So are you saying only the Baptist have it right? I think that's a big part of what he's saying. We don't walk around with a big denomination label floating over our head, and to be honest all I see labeling denominations doing is causing divisions. Even here, I'm sure if you saw your denomination listed up there you didn't like it, and it made you automatically defensive. I agree with his points and saw my "denomination" listed too, but I am not my denomination and I do disagree with some of my churches (church as in the building and denomination name on the sign, not the body) practices. For example I don't think speaking in tongues is unintelligible gibberish in the bible, nor do I ascribe to the pre-trib rapture, both taught at my church. I attended this church for a few years before I was really saved, and to be honest I doubt I would have ever been saved simply by going there, even though the preacher does preach truth, I do like what he says aside from the things I mentioned earlier. In that way I agree with the OP too, I mean I had been to a few churches, Baptist included, over about 5 years and had no clue what real Christianity was.

I Have to put most the blame squarely on myself for not seeking at all, but nothing they said ever explained to me that the Holy Spirit was a true and literal way we are assured of our salvation and that God is REAL. I loved the "idea" of Jesus, but had a real life to live. Christianity was more of a belief system than the one and only way to reconciliation to the one true God I wasn’t even sure existed, don’t get me wrong I really wanted Him to and would have never voiced that then, but I had my doubts. I feel that satan has infiltrated the whole world and everything in it, and this very thing in the OP is about this full on attack on the truth of Jesus Christ from EVERY conceivable man made level, to me, this is the most blatant proof Jesus is real in my opinion. Why would everything in the world be against a fictional character? That is also proof of His power to me as well, despite all this deception and all these constant attacks the world throws at it as fast, often, and much as it can, He still rules and lives in His children. The truth can’t be overcome. His church still lives despite this world and all praise and glory to Him. I see the question “how do you know you’re right?” a lot, and I’ll just say if you are truly indwelt and regenerated by the Holy Spirit then you should know the answer to that, but at the same time I feel we should come at the whole thing in love. While I do agree with the OP, when it’s presented like this it causes the defenses to go up right away and most likely any chance of a meaningful conversation about it are diminished greatly if not destroyed. We as Christians are called to love each other above all other things, and when you think about it showing love to saved people with the Holy Spirit in them, is like our chance to show Him love directly. I think the “labels” of denominations cause pride and division inherently before we even get to doctrine disputes. Jesus should always be the focus period, He saves not the denomination anyway. I also think these conversations are better on a personal basis and not the greatest in a public forum set up like this, that’s just my opinion though, but at the same time I think this is important to talk about.

 

[3Scoreand10]

So are you saying only the Baptist have it right? I think that's a big part of what he's saying. We don't walk around with a big denomination label floating over our head, and to be honest all I see labeling denominations doing is causing divisions. Even here, I'm sure if you saw your denomination listed up there you didn't like it, and it made you automatically defensive. I agree with his points and saw my "denomination" listed too, but I am not my denomination and I do disagree with some of my churches (church as in the building and denomination name on the sign, not the body) practices. For example I don't think speaking in tongues is unintelligible gibberish in the bible, nor do I ascribe to the pre-trib rapture, both taught at my church. I attended this church for a few years before I was really saved, and to be honest I doubt I would have ever been saved simply by going there, even though the preacher does preach truth, I do like what he says aside from the things I mentioned earlier. In that way I agree with the OP too, I mean I had been to a few churches, Baptist included, over about 5 years and had no clue what real Christianity was.

I Have to put most the blame squarely on myself for not seeking at all, but nothing they said ever explained to me that the Holy Spirit was a true and literal way we are assured of our salvation and that God is REAL. I loved the "idea" of Jesus, but had a real life to live. Christianity was more of a belief system than the one and only way to reconciliation to the one true God I wasn’t even sure existed, don’t get me wrong I really wanted Him to and would have never voiced that then, but I had my doubts. I feel that satan has infiltrated the whole world and everything in it, and this very thing in the OP is about this full on attack on the truth of Jesus Christ from EVERY conceivable man made level, to me, this is the most blatant proof Jesus is real in my opinion. Why would everything in the world be against a fictional character? That is also proof of His power to me as well, despite all this deception and all these constant attacks the world throws at it as fast, often, and much as it can, He still rules and lives in His children. The truth can’t be overcome. His church still lives despite this world and all praise and glory to Him. I see the question “how do you know you’re right?” a lot, and I’ll just say if you are truly indwelt and regenerated by the Holy Spirit then you should know the answer to that, but at the same time I feel we should come at the whole thing in love. While I do agree with the OP, when it’s presented like this it causes the defenses to go up right away and most likely any chance of a meaningful conversation about it are diminished greatly if not destroyed. We as Christians are called to love each other above all other things, and when you think about it showing love to saved people with the Holy Spirit in them, is like our chance to show Him love directly. I think the “labels” of denominations cause pride and division inherently before we even get to doctrine disputes. Jesus should always be the focus period, He saves not the denomination anyway. I also think these conversations are better on a personal basis and not the greatest in a public forum set up like this, that’s just my opinion though, but at the same time I think this is important to talk about.

NO! That is not what I said.
I answered a post that said all were corrupt because of those in the hierachy.
I was pointing out that Landmark Missionary Baptist have no national leaders. No hierachy.
Each Church is totally independant and the local congregation makes all decisions, with each member being equal and having an equal voice and vote.
Do I believe that we are closer to the truth than others? Yes I do, but that is not to say we are totally right and everyone else is totally wrong.
Only God knows, and will judge according.
I have been in some Baptist church that I would never go to again.

 

[Jimbone]

NO! That is not what I said.
I answered a post that said all were corrupt because of those in the hierachy.
I was pointing out that Landmark Missionary Baptist have no national leaders. No hierachy.
Each Church is totally independant and the local congregation makes all decisions, with each member being equal and having an equal voice and vote.
Do I believe that we are closer to the truth than others? Yes I do, but that is not to say we are totally right and everyone else is totally wrong.
Only God knows, and will judge according.
I have been in some Baptist church that I would never go to again.

My whole point was how labels alone are enough to cause this kind of back and forth pointless and fruitless “conversation”. I wasn't trying to attack Baptist in any way, and thank you for proving my point. Love you brother.

 

[3Scoreand10]

My whole point was how labels alone are enough to cause this kind of back and forth pointless and fruitless “conversation”. I wasn't trying to attack Baptist in any way, and thank you for proving my point. Love you brother.

Name does not always reveal what is taught.
Some NON-DENOMINATION congregations teach some denominations doctrine, they just deny it or disguise it.
And then there are those whojlust want your money, will teach things that make you feel good and give, and allow you to believe what ever you wish.
So don't reject because of name and do not approve because of name.

 

[Jimbone]

Name does not always reveal what is taught.
Some NON-DENOMINATION congregations teach some denominations doctrine, they just deny it or disguise it.
And then there are those whojlust want your money, will teach things that make you feel good and give, and allow you to believe what ever you wish.
So don't reject because of name and do not approve because of name.

I just meant the label alone is enough to cause fractures period, and it is, that has been demonstrated on this very thread a few times. I agree with everything else you said really, but you felt the need to swoop in to defend your denomination and that was what my point was, it caused you to feel the need to be defensive just seeing your label being commented on. I never disagreed with any of what you said at any point including now, I agree. As far as “So don't reject because of name and do not approve because of name”, I put no stock what so ever in labels, I will make that call when in discussion with that particular individual, or what’s being taught, etc. and that’s my whole point. Without those labels you’d have no reason to even say that to me, labels cause more harm than good.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

When it comes to Satan's and worldly influences within the churches, there is much room for debate. Those who walk with Christ and understand what is going on in the world work against Satan and worldly ideals simply by being salt and light in this dark world. However, I stand by my views on the worldly systems about 95% (I'm willing to debate and even change my views in light of Biblical evidence). Again, Christians do have their own influence on worldly systems but this world belongs to Satan as the majority of people within this world walk in darkness and as slaves.

As a comment on the past few posts, I was mainly speaking of the practices of local congregations to have a priest/pastor class and a layman class (even if it called by different names). I am personally completely unfamiliar with the hierarchy which exists above the local congregation level, except in the case of the Catholic Church/Vatican. So I think I will refrain from discussion on that particular topic as it is quite complicated and relies (to some degree) on the individual and collective members relationship with God.

Many good Christians exist within these systems simply because there really isn't much alternative. It doesn't mean I support these systems, but change can be made from within the systems to some degree if people are of one mind.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

I ran out of time to edit the end of my last post. I meant to say : Change can be made within the systems to* the degree* that people are of one mind. Unfortunately, in my experience, I think its fair to say that many people are content with tradition and are largely ignorant to the fact that things can be done or should be done any differently. I feel like many in the layman class enjoy having little involvement and many in the priest/pastor class enjoy their postitions as well.

Now , of course the level of involvement/fellowship within the "church" is largely dependant on the individual.

And there are other opportunities for fellowship such as Bible studies and groups (men's groups etc).

So all I can really say on this topic when it comes to the churches is that it is a complicated matter. But I see nothing but good arising from all of us taking a good look at how we've been doing "church" with a fresh perspective.

 

[3Scoreand10]

I just meant the label alone is enough to cause fractures period, and it is, that has been demonstrated on this very thread a few times. I agree with everything else you said really, but you felt the need to swoop in to defend your denomination and that was what my point was, it caused you to feel the need to be defensive just seeing your label being commented on. I never disagreed with any of what you said at any point including now, I agree. As far as “So don't reject because of name and do not approve because of name”, I put no stock what so ever in labels, I will make that call when in discussion with that particular individual, or what’s being taught, etc. and that’s my whole point. Without those labels you’d have no reason to even say that to me, labels cause more harm than good.

An old preacher once told a group of young preacher " learn to deal with the world the way it is, not the way you think it should be"
In past years men put names on different groups. Even before I was born.
They are not going away. We can not change that fact.
We must learn to deal with.