Is the Rapture a lie? Is Zionism a lie?

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Jan 21, 2021
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#81
"Authentic Jews" have been experiencing the New Birth every since the day of Pentecost, so what's your point? The church at Jerusalem was the first church ever, and it consisted of born-again authentic Jews. From the tribes of Israel.

Also there is no such thing as a "spiritual" resurrection. The resurrection of the saints will include actual transformed physical human bodies. The saints do not go to Heaven as ethereal spirits.

It is quite evident that you are seriously confused, so who has been leading you astray?
So your defense is ..."well, there were Jews at Pentecost before 70 A.D." ...yeah ...things changed after.

And saying there isn't spiritual resurrection is saying no one is being Reborn right now.
 

lawrence101

Active member
Jan 25, 2019
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#82
And saying there isn't spiritual resurrection is saying no one is being Reborn right now.
Just to clear things up ,the resurrection rapture of the physical body either dead or alive and Spiritual Salvation are two different things.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#83
Just to clear things up ,the resurrection rapture of the physical body either dead or alive and Spiritual Salvation are two different things.
You need the First Resurrection of Rev 20 to be about something other than Spiritual Salvation ...your view fails.
 

lawrence101

Active member
Jan 25, 2019
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#84
You need the First Resurrection of Rev 20 to be about something other than Spiritual Salvation ...your view fails.
No , it was in response to your erroneous statement:

pittsburghjoe said: " And saying there isn't spiritual resurrection is saying no one is being Reborn right now."

me :" Just to clear things up , the resurrection rapture of the physical body either dead or alive and Spiritual Salvation are two different things. "
Your statement was soundly defeated.
 
Dec 4, 2021
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#85
We were warned:

Acts 20:29

“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”

From what I'm reading the 'Rapture' is false doctrine:

http://onlybibletruth.com/rapture-is-a-lie

It wasn't until the early or mid 1800's that there was any significant group of believers around the world that looked for a "rapture" of the Church prior to a seven-year tribulation period. It may come as a shock to some who read these lines, but it is a fact nonetheless, that the "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830.

THERE IS NO RAPTURE!
The church systems are literally filled today with carnal, earthly-minded Christians who sit back in ease and self-complacency and await a future rapture that will translate them out of the midst of earth's Great Tribulation at the beginning of the Day of the Lord. To this generation of Lukewarm Laodiceans the Spirit speaks in certain tones of warning: "Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light" (Amos 5:18).

https://historicist.info/articles2/rapturelie.htm

~~~~~~~

I encountered this. I tried to get friends to act against evil that was being thrust onto us and they refused to lift one finger because "the Bible said things will grow worse and they'll be magically "raptured" out." I don't believe that's what God expects of us. I read that the lie was promulgated to make Christians passive against encroaching evil.

I am no theologian - I have not even thoroughly studied the end times but I do question things. Having been in the church for years I've seen some pretty shocking things among 'God's chosen' - so I tend to question everything as I witnessed so much hypocrisy. I found a number of pastors and church leaders to be hypocrites and not at all godly. And these are the people I should trust? I think not.

I'm not saying I have answers - I'm grappling with trying to understand even where we are in the end times but I don't agree with Christians sitting passively back as the country descends into darkness. I believe we will be judged for what we did as well as WHAT WE DIDN'T DO.

And I think we should question everything as we were forewarned of end times deceptions.

2 Timothy 3:5

“Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”

I'm reading this now:

https://www.mylife4jesus.co.za/index_files/Page559.htm

We were told:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Timothy 2:15
You’re in the truth saint rose! It’s true this rapture doctrine and all the belief system built around it has been used to lead Christians away from the real truth it’s got parts of truth but it has led christians Down the road of deception. The rapture is really the resurrection at the last day of the resurrection when evil in the earth is destroyed and Jesus comes to establish his kingdom with the saints that are resurrected and you’re right if people are complacent and lukewarm Lost in deception they will be in the Broadway enough in her away away Lost in deception they will be in the Broad way that leads to destruction instead of entering by the narrow gate which leads to eternal life. The Rapture doctrine is one of the deceptions that creates the falling away in the church that Paul the apostle speaks of. But God loves us and in his grace he will send those that he raises up in the end days to speak the truth to all who would believe just as Jesus spoke in his ministry.
 

lawrence101

Active member
Jan 25, 2019
424
137
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canada
#86
You’re in the truth saint rose! It’s true this rapture doctrine and all the belief system built around it has been used to lead Christians away from the real truth it’s got parts of truth but it has led christians Down the road of deception. The rapture is really the resurrection at the last day of the resurrection when evil in the earth is destroyed and Jesus comes to establish his kingdom with the saints that are resurrected and you’re right if people are complacent and lukewarm Lost in deception they will be in the Broadway enough in her away away Lost in deception they will be in the Broad way that leads to destruction instead of entering by the narrow gate which leads to eternal life. The Rapture doctrine is one of the deceptions that creates the falling away in the church that Paul the apostle speaks of. But God loves us and in his grace he will send those that he raises up in the end days to speak the truth to all who would believe just as Jesus spoke in his ministry.
What rapture doctrine are you refering to ?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#87
Dec 4, 2021
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#88
What rapture doctrine are you refering to ?
The pre mid and post tribulation, and in Revelation where the Spirit of the Lord tells John to come up hither
Revelation 4:1 KJV: After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in ... Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” This Doctrine is preached as this is the scripture where the rapture happens there is no rapture there is a resurrection at the end of the age that God decides when and no man knows not even Jesus. In Matthew 24 Jesus answers the disciples and when will the end of the age be and he gives line by line what’s going to happen on the earth before we see the Son of Man coming in the clouds and Paul says that they will not come until the man of perdition, the man of lawlessness is revealed. These are the truths. Man just always has to have all the answers so they make it up out of their fear. Man is afraid of suffering and going through hard trials believing that a God who loves us could never put us through suffering so they’ve come up with an escape route of their own using scripture in untruth.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#89
The pre mid and post tribulation, and in Revelation where the Spirit of the Lord tells John to come up hither
Revelation 4:1 KJV: After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in ... Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” This Doctrine is preached as this is the scripture where the rapture happens there is no rapture there is a resurrection at the end of the age that God decides when and no man knows not even Jesus. In Matthew 24 Jesus answers the disciples and when will the end of the age be and he gives line by line what’s going to happen on the earth before we see the Son of Man coming in the clouds and Paul says that they will not come until the man of perdition, the man of lawlessness is revealed. These are the truths. Man just always has to have all the answers so they make it up out of their fear. Man is afraid of suffering and going through hard trials believing that a God who loves us could never put us through suffering so they’ve come up with an escape route of their own using scripture in untruth.
This doctrine nullifies the great and precious promises of our escape

So then this prayer is pointless:

Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”


And apparently it doesn't matter if we ignore so great a salvation because no one is going to escape:

how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.

And what difference does it make if we refuse to listen to the warnings from the Lord in heaven?


See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?

We have great and precious promises to escape the corruption in the world, yet you nullify them with your teaching.

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

And so much for this promise

The Lord will rescue his servants; no one who takes refuge in him will be condemned.

Forget it Paul

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?


Yep, looks like Paul got it wrong again

and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

So many promises nullified by this teaching

The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Oh well, it seems Peter also is wrong

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[b] to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.