Socalism & Christianity, a perfect match or a complete clash of ideologies?

[JTB]

And see maybe that's why many feel the way they do about what is referred to as welfare or Social security because to the federal government and to the states it is considered welfare (notice if you will that the link I'm giving is from the federal Government and is their own definition not mine) https://www.ssa.gov/history/aja964.html ... Additionally in this case where the federal Government is saying SS is part of what they call welfare the vast majority of it is SS,Medicare,Medicaid and disability(ssi) and what many see as welfare given to the poor is less than 5% of what is included in the welfare programs budget. If you notice also in these links unemployment insurance is also included in what the Federal Government is calling welfare and so for instance those who were not working during the pandemic and were being given unemployment were considered recipients of the social welfare programs.

Anyway I will meet you half way on this though because I am retired and on SS myself. When I was younger and was able to work a plant I worked at moved and laid us all off and so I drew unemployment until I found other work. lol,, now to me I think I paid into the SS and unemployment for almost 60 years and so to me what I'm on(SS) isn't welfare it's a retirement program that they withheld from my check my whole life(an investment I made). That's all here from there though because it seems me and you see it the same I think but the Government(state and federal) sees it as a Social welfare program. I should say that's what has me following along with the post in this thread because it seems that most don't realize that the government actually does see SS(and other programs) as part of the social welfare program. Which now leads me to wonder,,,,,Do we really want them to end all the Social programs in the US or just a few? It sounds to me like they got us asking them to please do away with our welfare checks when they know that we don't realize that SS is included in it. https://econofact.org/welfare-and-the-federal-budget (this second link is not from .gov but you can find another if you like)...

So the gov't has classified social security incorrectly. If you incorrectly call a horse a pig, does it really stop being a horse?

 

[iamsoandso]

That's for national elections. They are already voting in local elections.

Yes in the link I gave it stated this so in different states they may be able. In Texas they will not make public the list and so we don't know if they get to vote or not... https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/30/texas-appeals-court-noncitizen-voter-ruling/

 

[iamsoandso]

So the gov't has classified social security incorrectly. If you incorrectly call a horse a pig, does it really stop being a horse?

lol,Hey I agree but I'm not sure if we can convince others that doing away with socialism is like asking the government to stop mailing their mom's and dad's their SS check and giving the government permission to refuse any of the rest from drawing SS,,medicare ect....

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

You're sixteen and have been a socialist for many many years??

Hey Jaxy, I'm sorry this comment from me was unnecessary. I know what it was like being a teenager, and even 2 years felt like forever sometimes.

 

[Cameron143]

And see maybe that's why many feel the way they do about what is referred to as welfare or Social security because to the federal government and to the states it is considered welfare (notice if you will that the link I'm giving is from the federal Government and is their own definition not mine) https://www.ssa.gov/history/aja964.html ... Additionally in this case where the federal Government is saying SS is part of what they call welfare the vast majority of it is SS,Medicare,Medicaid and disability(ssi) and what many see as welfare given to the poor is less than 5% of what is included in the welfare programs budget. If you notice also in these links unemployment insurance is also included in what the Federal Government is calling welfare and so for instance those who were not working during the pandemic and were being given unemployment were considered recipients of the social welfare programs.

Anyway I will meet you half way on this though because I am retired and on SS myself. When I was younger and was able to work a plant I worked at moved and laid us all off and so I drew unemployment until I found other work. lol,, now to me I think I paid into the SS and unemployment for almost 60 years and so to me what I'm on(SS) isn't welfare it's a retirement program that they withheld from my check my whole life(an investment I made). That's all here from there though because it seems me and you see it the same I think but the Government(state and federal) sees it as a Social welfare program. I should say that's what has me following along with the post in this thread because it seems that most don't realize that the government actually does see SS(and other programs) as part of the social welfare program. Which now leads me to wonder,,,,,Do we really want them to end all the Social programs in the US or just a few? It sounds to me like they got us asking them to please do away with our welfare checks when they know that we don't realize that SS is included in it. https://econofact.org/welfare-and-the-federal-budget (this second link is not from .gov but you can find another if you like)...

I'm not against helping people who have need. For those who cannot work, I believe we have an obligation to help. I'm not opposed either to helping those who can work through difficult times. I'm against supporting people who can support themselves.
There are 11 million jobs available in America. That's 4 million than before the pandemic. That means 4 million people haven't gone back to work. My guess is that they are still eating. This is what I am against.
For you personally, I am very glad help exists for you.

 

[Cameron143]

No, it's not. For the reasons I listed in my previous post. 1 would be better if the benefits were spread equally among all, but as the last 30 years have shown, the benefits only go to the upper class. Jesus taught to elevate the lower class. Ergo, model 1 does NOT meet Jesus' teachings.

Jesus said the poor will always be with you. A condition He could have eradicated at any time.
Need knows no social or economic boundary. Everyone has needs.
Unfortunately our dialog hasn't produced any fruit so thanks for what you have shared. While I don't share your perspective, I appreciate your time and energy. Much thanks.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I lived under "free" healthcare, and for the situation of my family, it was lethal. My mothers sister took stomach cancer. She was told her issues were just nerves. Then one day she took pain in her stomach so bad she fell off the sofa and was bleeding from her mouth. They rushed her in to the hospital where they found stomach cancer. They removed her stomach and said she needed no more chemo, even though her surgeon recommended it. Before the year was out she died at the age of 43.

My mothers brother told his doctor he wanted a colonoscopy and his doctor laughed and said he was too young for one. He was 50. He took cancer about two yrs later. The treatments were so severe he had to wear gloves because he would lose skin if he touched anything. He died within three yrs of the doctor telling him he didn't need to get checked.

My cousin had a severe ear ache. I told her to get to her doctor. She told me he said it would take 7 months to see an ear specialist. SEVEN. She went into emergency one night in raging pain and the doctor said she was an addict and sent her home. She left the office and fell in the hallway. The nurse saw her and she explained that she was a mother with three boys at home that her husband was caring for and she had driven herself to emergency in raging pain. The doctor apologized for calling her an addict and said she could see a specialist in 5 months. By the time she got the help she needed she suffered permanent hearing loss in one ear.

I could tell more stories from my family and friends. And then try and sue that doctor, it's not gonna happen. So if Americans think free healthcare is the way, you might want to take a second look.

Almost sounds the treatment our Veterans get at the VA clinic.

You have cancer? Here have Motrin. Obviously this is an exaggeration but in so many cases it just seems like lazy medical evaluations.

My friend in the Air Force had to go through so many hoops just to get a private sector evaluation. The VA told him it was just anxiety but it ended up being a rare disease.

My sister-in-law in the Marines had damage to her back and they prescribed motrin expecting her to be okay for her PFT.

I deal with the VA clinic as a federal employee and I kid you not, for my chronic back pain, the doctor recommended pull-ups. For my ear ache, he recommended to to use my little finger with soap and water as a cutip.

If I did pull ups, it would make it worse. The earache was wax build up from daily earplug use that took a nurse at a convenient care clinic to use these tiny tools to clear my ear.

I have begun to love these convenient cares that are popping up. Almost instantly you can see a doctor.

 

[kaylagrl]

Almost sounds the treatment our Veterans get at the VA clinic.

You have cancer? Here have Motrin. Obviously this is an exaggeration but in so many cases it just seems like lazy medical evaluations.

My friend in the Air Force had to go through so many hoops just to get a private sector evaluation. The VA told him it was just anxiety but it ended up being a rare disease.
My sister-in-law in the Marines had damage to her back and they prescribed motrin expecting her to be okay for her PFT.

I deal with the VA clinic as a federal employee and I kid you not, for my chronic back pain, the doctor recommended pull-ups. For my ear ache, he recommended to to use my little finger with soap and water as a cutip.

If I did pull ups, it would make it worse. The earache was wax build up from daily earplug use that took a nurse at a convenient care clinic to use these tiny tools to clear my ear.

I have begun to love these convenient cares that are popping up. Almost instantly you can see a doctor.

I agree, just plain lazy. My uncle had a bad knee and couldn't walk, took months, half a year to see someone. If you have anything serious you literally die waiting. And you can't sue the gov't. So every time I meet someone who crows about the benefits of free healthcare I tell my stories. The gov't never ever makes anything better.

 

[iamsoandso]

I'm not against helping people who have need. For those who cannot work, I believe we have an obligation to help. I'm not opposed either to helping those who can work through difficult times. I'm against supporting people who can support themselves.
There are 11 million jobs available in America. That's 4 million than before the pandemic. That means 4 million people haven't gone back to work. My guess is that they are still eating. This is what I am against.
For you personally, I am very glad help exists for you.

Thanks I had grumbled in the past in other threads because we had applied for assistance last August and they did approve it last week(took 6 months,lol). It irritated me that it took so long to convince them that if a person is in their 80's and was disabled when they were 58(by their own doctors/DORS) that I thought I might qualify but it took a long time here in Texas to get that help. I do appreciate the help(you are the tax payers that are helping me,,,thank you).

There are about 11 mil. jobs available in the US(never thought to look it up till you mentioned it,lol) but yep https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/there-are-more-than-11-million-open-jobs-in-america-right-now.html In Texas(other states may vary) these are the requirements https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/income-limits-snap-benefits-texas-162515453.html So taking a family of 2 @22,646.00(per year) divided by 52 weeks, divided by 40=10.8875 dollars an hour. So if in Texas the min. wage is 7.25 an hour then any family of 2(note in the requirements there is an age/work requirement so single parent/child only apply to the 2 family numbers because if it's husband/wife and can both work they would not qualify unless disabled?) because 2 people @ 7.25 an hour would make 14.50 p.hr. combined (so more than 11.8875 an hour). It's also possible I guess that the family of 2 could both work but get sent home early from day to day and still make less than 22,646.00 and then qualify. Hmm,now I wonder how many of the 11 million available jobs pay more than minimum wage.

 

[Handyman62]

I agree, just plain lazy. My uncle had a bad knee and couldn't walk, took months, half a year to see someone. If you have anything serious you literally die waiting. And you can't sue the gov't. So every time I meet someone who crows about the benefits of free healthcare I tell my stories. The gov't never ever makes anything better.

The problem with telling people the truth about things like that is it will most likely fall on deaf ears. I have found that most people can't even fathom things like that really happen or they don't care because they think it will never happen to them.

 

[Cameron143]

Thanks I had grumbled in the past in other threads because we had applied for assistance last August and they did approve it last week(took 6 months,lol). It irritated me that it took so long to convince them that if a person is in their 80's and was disabled when they were 58(by their own doctors/DORS) that I thought I might qualify but it took a long time here in Texas to get that help. I do appreciate the help(you are the tax payers that are helping me,,,thank you).

There are about 11 mil. jobs available in the US(never thought to look it up till you mentioned it,lol) but yep https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/there-are-more-than-11-million-open-jobs-in-america-right-now.html In Texas(other states may vary) these are the requirements https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/income-limits-snap-benefits-texas-162515453.html So taking a family of 2 @22,646.00(per year) divided by 52 weeks, divided by 40=10.8875 dollars an hour. So if in Texas the min. wage is 7.25 an hour then any family of 2(note in the requirements there is an age/work requirement so single parent/child only apply to the 2 family numbers because if it's husband/wife and can both work they would not qualify unless disabled?) because 2 people @ 7.25 an hour would make 14.50 p.hr. combined (so more than 11.8875 an hour). It's also possible I guess that the family of 2 could both work but get sent home early from day to day and still make less than 22,646.00 and then qualify. Hmm,now I wonder how many of the 11 million available jobs pay more than minimum wage.

When you have a shortage of workers, pay rates rise. People working fast food jobs in South Carolina start at $11 an hour.

I'm not ignorant of the working poor or unsympathetic. I have a family of 10. I work 3 jobs, homeschool 5 children, and still have time to date my wife. I do whatever is necessary to support my family. I have worked as many as 90 hours a week. I work 6 days if necessary.

Not everyone was given the constitution I have been given. But most people can earn a decent to good living over time if they will get up each day, spend some time with their Maker, and apply themselves.

 

[Cameron143]

Thanks I had grumbled in the past in other threads because we had applied for assistance last August and they did approve it last week(took 6 months,lol). It irritated me that it took so long to convince them that if a person is in their 80's and was disabled when they were 58(by their own doctors/DORS) that I thought I might qualify but it took a long time here in Texas to get that help. I do appreciate the help(you are the tax payers that are helping me,,,thank you).

There are about 11 mil. jobs available in the US(never thought to look it up till you mentioned it,lol) but yep https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/there-are-more-than-11-million-open-jobs-in-america-right-now.html In Texas(other states may vary) these are the requirements https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/income-limits-snap-benefits-texas-162515453.html So taking a family of 2 @22,646.00(per year) divided by 52 weeks, divided by 40=10.8875 dollars an hour. So if in Texas the min. wage is 7.25 an hour then any family of 2(note in the requirements there is an age/work requirement so single parent/child only apply to the 2 family numbers because if it's husband/wife and can both work they would not qualify unless disabled?) because 2 people @ 7.25 an hour would make 14.50 p.hr. combined (so more than 11.8875 an hour). It's also possible I guess that the family of 2 could both work but get sent home early from day to day and still make less than 22,646.00 and then qualify. Hmm,now I wonder how many of the 11 million available jobs pay more than minimum wage.

Another thought. People have become accustomed to a 5 day work week but the biblical work week is 6 days. 6 days shalt thou work...almost sounds like a command. I'm not against people working their choice of days, but I do wonder how many people would escape poverty if they worked an additional day each week.

 

[iamsoandso]

When you have a shortage of workers, pay rates rise. People working fast food jobs in South Carolina start at $11 an hour.'ve had

I'm not ignorant of the working poor or unsympathetic. I have a family of 10. I work 3 jobs, homeschool 5 children, and still have time to date my wife. I do whatever is necessary to support my family. I have worked as many as 90 hours a week. I work 6 days if necessary.

Not everyone was given the constitution I have been given. But most people can earn a decent to good living over time if they will get up each day, spend some time with their Maker, and apply themselves.

That's great, Sounds a bit like Texas,lol. I once had 3 jobs at the same time but only about a few months. I worked full time at a portable building plant (line wiring and insulating). When I got off that afternoon I ran home and showered and was a bagger at a grocery store(cowboy days when they bagged your groceries in paper bags and put them in you car,lol) and after they closed a man payed me to tare down a building for him but I couldn't go till about midnight because I had to be back at work at 7 in the AM.

Anyway a month or so of that and I went from Bagger to stocker to grocery manager. I quit the other job and in about a year was the Assistant manager. I was eating lunch one day at a Dairy Queen and they knew who I was and approached me about running some of their stores and went from manager to area supervisor to district in about 8 years. Ive had several other jobs across my life from shrimping to farms,,restaurants,plants,Hobby airport(dumby me blew that one,lol). I worked at at least 20 convenience stores and I'm remembering at least 10 other jobs I had and I admit I'm shaking my head at my own self trying to remember all the different jobs I've had. I agree though you just have to do what ever you have to do I suppose. In the old days when I was 12 your parents could get a minors release(meant you had insurance because the businesses didn't cover minors) that's when I first went to work. I culled bad produce by the wheel barrow and some days could make 75 cents to a dollar,man those were the good old days candy,sodas any thing I wanted.

 

[Cameron143]

That's great, Sounds a bit like Texas,lol. I once had 3 jobs at the same time but only about a few months. I worked full time at a portable building plant (line wiring and insulating). When I got off that afternoon I ran home and showered and was a bagger at a grocery store(cowboy days when they bagged your groceries in paper bags and put them in you car,lol) and after they closed a man payed me to tare down a building for him but I couldn't go till about midnight because I had to be back at work at 7 in the AM.

Anyway a month or so of that and I went from Bagger to stocker to grocery manager. I quit the other job and in about a year was the Assistant manager. I was eating lunch one day at a Dairy Queen and they knew who I was and approached me about running some of their stores and went from manager to area supervisor to district in about 8 years. Ive had several other jobs across my life from shrimping to farms,,restaurants,plants,Hobby airport(dumby me blew that one,lol). I worked at at least 20 convenience stores and I'm remembering at least 10 other jobs I had and I admit I'm shaking my head at my own self trying to remember all the different jobs I've had. I agree though you just have to do what ever you have to do I suppose. In the old days when I was 12 your parents could get a minors release(meant you had insurance because the businesses didn't cover minors) that's when I first went to work. I culled bad produce by the wheel barrow and some days could make 75 cents to a dollar,man those were the good old days candy,sodas any thing I wanted.

As I was reading your post I was recalling alot of jobs I had along the way. It brought a smile to my face just taking the trip down memory lane. I appreciate you sharing.

 

[JTB]

6 days shalt thou work

Reference?

 

[Cameron143]

Reference?

Exodus 34:21. Also Exodus 20:9

 

[ZNP]

Another thought. People have become accustomed to a 5 day work week but the biblical work week is 6 days. 6 days shalt thou work...almost sounds like a command. I'm not against people working their choice of days, but I do wonder how many people would escape poverty if they worked an additional day each week.

Personally I think that keeping the sabbath, not the legal rule keeping shoved down your throat but keeping a day to spend with the Lord because you love Him is the best way to avoid poverty. The things people do when they aren't working are the things that either destroy them or save them.

 

[Cameron143]

Personally I think that keeping the sabbath, not the legal rule keeping shoved down your throat but keeping a day to spend with the Lord because you love Him is the best way to avoid poverty. The things people do when they aren't working are the things that either destroy them or save them.

You make a good point. Keeping a day because you are supposed to is alot different than because you want to.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Since I have started to study the Bible, I personally believe the Bible renforces my ideas of socalism as it talks about caring for one another, loving one another and helping out those who are less fortunate.

Well Socialism is the exact opposite of all these fine ideas. Socialism in its bare naked form is TYRANNY of the worst kind based upon lies.

Every communist country calls itself "socialist" but 0.1% of the population establishes tyranny over 99.9%, using fear as the weapon to control the population. Look at what is happening in China. So the socialist elites have a lovely time while they rape and pillage their countries and destroy lives by the millions. Take a close look at all of them and then take a close look at Biden's Communist regime which is based upon lies, deceit, and lawlessness. Karl Marx was a Satanist. Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc were all monsters. And Joe Biden is a very evil man focused on destroying America. THE FATHER OF SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM IS THE DEVIL.

 

[KyrieUchiha]

I, myself, am a socalist and have been for many many years and firmly believe that a more socalist society would be better then the current one. Since I have started to study the Bible, I personally believe the Bible renforces my ideas of socalism as it talks about caring for one another, loving one another and helping out those who are less fourtante.

I was just wondering what other Christians would think of this paring?

Ooooh this is a really good topic, I see a lot of comments here that are true, false and semi-correct.

My grandfather was raised in a small city outside of Moscow and from his experience he told me that. Socialism could help someone become a better Christian, but they are not to be paired together. Socialism in itself is a completely different ideology, the world would have no religion under socialism or the latter which is communism.

The whole point of socialism is essentially to either abolish or have planned markets and make everyone equal, there is a strong emphasis on sharing, caring and reusing things. So yeah, I can see where you get your idea from. Many people think that it's evil, but the answer to that is extremely complicated- people become corrupted and in the end so does the socialist ideology. In the end everything comes down to markets, personal wealth and perks people want.