The Affliction Of Conspiracy Theorists

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Oct 16, 2015
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THESE TWO THINGS PROVE LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S GUILT:


In late September of 1964, Chief Justice Earl Warren handed a thick book to President Lyndon B. Johnson at the White House. That heavy tome was the final "Warren Commission Report" regarding the investigation into the November 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

The seven-member Warren Commission panel (plus its staff of counsel members and legal staff), in a nearly ten-month probe into the circumstances surrounding the murder of JFK, arrived at a conclusion which has divided America ever since -- they concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald, by himself, had fired all of the bullets that struck down and killed President Kennedy in Dallas, Texas.

A vast majority of people vehemently disagree with these WC findings. I, however, am not a member of that majority. Lee Harvey Oswald was indeed, in my opinion, the sole gunman that day in Dallas. The physical evidence (as well as the circumstantial evidence) that is currently in the official record tells me that Oswald was most certainly the murderer of America's 35th President.

And when virtually ALL of the hard, PHYSICAL evidence in a criminal case leans one way and supports one single conclusion, reaching an opposite conclusion (as most conspiracy theorists have done with respect to the evidence in the JFK case) -- i.e., that Oswald is totally INNOCENT of the two murders he was charged with on 11/22/63 (both JFK's and police officer J.D. Tippit's as well) -- defies all logic and reasoned thinking.

Like most things in life, the John Kennedy murder case can be reduced (in most areas within it) to common sense and the hard, documented physical evidence, and we all know where the latter leads -- right straight into the two guns of one Lee Harvey Oswald (his Mannlicher-Carcano rifle plus his revolver, the latter which was used to kill Officer Tippit). Plus, the "common sense" part of that equation leads directly to Lee Oswald and his weaponry as well. And "common sense" would tell anybody that Oswald is guilty.

I was thinking recently about the following quote by author-attorney-LNer Vincent Bugliosi (I think a lot about his comments, because they make so much "sense" of the "common" variety).....

"Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination of President Kennedy. The evidence is absolutely overwhelming that he carried out the tragic shooting all by himself. In fact, you could throw 80 percent of the evidence against him out the window and there would still be more than enough left to convince any reasonable person of his sole role in the crime." -- Vince Bugliosi

.....And then, just for the sake of illustrating the validity of the above-mentioned statement made by Mr. Bugliosi, I went about the task of tossing out certain pieces of evidence that lead toward Oswald's guilt in both the JFK and Tippit murders.....and I came to the conclusion, after stripping away several "LHO Is Guilty" items, that the following two things prove Lee Harvey Oswald guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (or at least they prove his guilt beyond all of my personal "reasonable doubt")......

1.) Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle was positively the weapon that was used to assassinate President Kennedy and wound Texas Governor John Connally. (With said weapon being found inside the building where Oswald was definitely located at 12:30 PM on November 22, 1963, when both of these men were wounded by rifle fire.)

2.) Oswald was seen carrying a bulky paper package into his place of employment at the Texas School Book Depository Building on the morning of 11/22/63, and Oswald (beyond a reasonable doubt) lied about the contents of this package to a co-worker.

As an extension to #2 above --- We KNOW Oswald lied about the "curtain rods" based on the following:

A.) No "curtain rods" were found anywhere within the Book Depository after the assassination.

B.) Oswald definitely did not carry any package inside his roominghouse at 1026 N. Beckley Avenue when he arrived back home just prior to 1:00 PM on the afternoon of the assassination.

A and B above add up to the inescapable fact that: No "curtain rods" were in that paper package on 11/22/63.

Adding #1 to #2 above, all by themselves, with nothing else in evidence but those items, makes Oswald a guilty assassin.

Now, when you start adding in the wealth of ADDITIONAL physical and circumstantial evidence against Oswald -- his guilt is then proven not beyond just a "reasonable" doubt...but it's proven beyond any SPECK of a doubt.

Things like: Oswald's prints on a paper bag IN THE SNIPER'S NEST; which was a paper bag that perfectly matches the type of bag that co-worker Wesley Frazier said Oswald carried into the Depository building at 8:00 AM on November 22nd. (With a nicely-incriminating "right palmprint" of Oswald's later discovered by the police in the VERY SPOT on that bag which equates PERFECTLY with the precise way Frazier said Oswald carried the bag in his right hand! That's a very important point, IMO, and is undeniably-strong physical evidence of Oswald's guilt.)

Plus there are these additional items: Eyewitness Howard Brennan's positive IDing of Oswald as a gunman in the Sniper's Nest window. .... The Tippit murder that was unquestionably committed by Oswald. .... The fingerprints of Oswald located on the rifle, plus his prints located on multiple boxes DEEP WITHIN THE SNIPER'S NEST. .... Oswald having no verifiable alibi for the precise time when President Kennedy was being gunned down on Elm Street at 12:30 PM on 11/22/63. .... Oswald dashing out of the TSBD at approximately 12:33 PM, just minutes after a U.S. President had been shot within yards of Oswald's workplace. .... And Oswald's other lies he told to the police after his arrest (apart from the obvious large lie re. the curtain rods).

But it all starts with the basic points brought out by #1 and #2 above. The evidence (and Oswald's OWN words and actions) tell a reasonable person that Lee H. Oswald was guilty as ever-lovin' sin of two murders in 1963, and there's nothing any CTer (or anybody else on the planet) can do or say to change that basic of all facts.

The conspiracists will continue to try to set Oswald free, of course, like always. But the more a reasonable person examines the evidence (and applies just a small dose of ordinary common sense to these facts in evidence), the more hollow, shallow, and inept all those pro-conspiracy arguments become.

David Von Pein
January 2006

ORIGINAL ARTICLE
 
Oct 16, 2015
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NOVEMBER 22, 1963 -- A LEE HARVEY OSWALD "TIMELINE":


My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......

(Beginning at lunchtime on November 22, 1963; all times approximate)......


11:45-11:50 AM (Friday, Nov. 22, 1963) -- Bill Shelley sees Lee Harvey Oswald downstairs on the first floor. ....

JOE BALL [of the Warren Commission] -- "On November 22, 1963, the day the President was shot, when is the last time you saw Oswald?"

WILLIAM SHELLEY -- "It was 10 or 15 minutes before 12."

MR. BALL -- "Where?"

MR. SHELLEY -- "On the first floor over near the telephone."


11:50-11:54 AM -- Oswald goes from the first floor to the sixth floor. Just a few minutes after getting to the sixth floor, the five other men who are on the 6th Floor break for lunch and race the two freight elevators downstairs. Oswald remains on the sixth floor.


11:55 AM -- Charles Givens comes back up to the sixth floor to retrieve his jacket and cigarettes. He sees Oswald, with clipboard in hand, on the east end of the floor. Per Givens' testimony, it's during this "cigarette trip" back up to the sixth floor when Oswald asks Givens to close the elevator gate and to send the elevator back up to him. This differs in chronology from the other witnesses who said they heard Oswald requesting the elevator during the "racing" of the elevators downstairs...i.e., BEFORE Givens went back up by himself.

In any event, it's fairly certain that (at some point just prior to 12:00) Oswald did ask for an elevator to be returned back up to him on the sixth floor.

It's very likely that no one inside the Book Depository Building saw Lee Oswald after approx. 11:55 AM on November 22nd, until LHO was next seen by Marrion Baker at approx. 12:31-12:32 PM on the second floor.

Carolyn Arnold has stated her belief that she saw Oswald in the lunchroom, eating his lunch, at either 12:15 PM or about 12:25 PM (over the years, she apparently has used both of those time estimates).

Now, such an "Oswald sighting" by Arnold at either of those times still would not give Oswald an alibi for the exact time of the assassination (12:30). But, it would be hard to believe that LHO would have been downstairs, casually eating his lunch, just a few minutes before dashing upstairs to murder the President.

But other witness testimony tends to debunk Carolyn Arnold's "I Saw LHO In The Lunchroom" account. And, in my view, there's just too much evidence (overall) that concretely puts Oswald on the 6th Floor during the approximate timeframe when Arnold claimed he was in the lunchroom.


11:55 AM-12:05 PM -- Oswald has the whole sixth floor to himself. This is just prior to Bonnie Ray Williams coming back up to the 6th Floor to eat his lunch. It's my belief that Lee Oswald, during this (approx.) 10-minute time period around noon or shortly after, probably went to the west end of the sixth floor (where he had his rifle hidden in the brown bag).

Oswald unwraps the rifle at the west end of the sixth floor and assembles the rifle at the west end (hence, Arnold Rowland sees a white man with a rifle at the west end of the building at approx. this time, maybe a little later, 12:15 or so, but keep in mind the approximation of all times).

It's quite possible, IMO, that Oswald initially was considering using the WEST-end window as his shooting window. But, for one reason or another, he decided that a window on the EAST end of the sixth floor would better serve his purposes.

Perhaps he was mentally factoring in the angles and trajectories in his head, and possibly realized that an east-end perch would be a better one, especially since the Secret Service agents would all have their backs to him when he began firing, if he decided to wait until after the cars had turned to Elm/Houston corner....which, IMO, Oswald definitely had in his mind to do, due to the pre-arranged way the rifle-rest boxes were constructed (i.e., in a "Rifle Always Pointing West/Southwest" manner).

It's also possible that, as Oswald mulled over potential shooting locations, he realized that a goodly number of boxes were already down on the east end of the 6th Floor, which would make constructing a makeshift "Nest" all the easier for him.

Now, I cannot fully explain why Oswald wanted to take the empty paper bag WITH HIM to the east end from the west end via this scenario I'm laying out here....but I've got to assume (naturally) that he DID do just that after assembling the rifle on the west end.

Perhaps--just perhaps--Oswald had it in his mind that he would be able to re-insert the weapon back into that bag and, just maybe, get the incriminating rifle out of the building the same way he smuggled it in--in the brown paper package that supposedly contained those never-found "curtain rods".

Yes, that last part is fairly weak...I'll admit that. I don't much like that idea either. For, Oswald would surely have known that he wouldn't have the time (or want to take time) to dismantle the rifle AFTER shooting at the President.

But, then too, who can know what crazy thoughts might be swimming through the head of a person who is contemplating murdering a U.S. President from his very own place of employment? That's a difficult type of mind to thoroughly probe and to figure out....indeed. Wouldn't you all agree?


12:00-12:05 PM -- Oswald (with his rifle and the paper bag) moves to the east end of the sixth floor, where Oswald works on constructing his Sniper's Nest. Now, some of these boxes might have been pretty close to the SN window already...which, as I mentioned, could have been a partial factor in Oswald choosing that southeast corner window to begin with. So, perhaps the building of the "Nest" wasn't as difficult or as time-consuming as some people seem to think it had to be.

I really have no idea how long it would have taken Oswald to create his makeshift Sniper's Nest of book cartons. And nobody else knows for sure either. This is one of the several "unknowables" surrounding this case.

But the sum total of "Oswald Was There" evidence tells me that Lee Oswald (alone) DID construct that Sniper's Nest at some point prior to Bonnie Ray Williams arriving back up on that sixth floor (or, at least Oz had ENOUGH of the Nest constructed so that he was able to hide behind a wall of partially-constructed boxes during Williams brief 5-to-12-minute stay up on that floor).


12:05-12:15 PM -- Oswald can hear Bonnie Ray Williams in the middle portion of the sixth floor, near the south windows, as Williams eats his lunch. I think, therefore, it's logical to assume that Oswald would have been trying to remain extra quiet as he hides within his "Nest" of boxes (whether the Nest is totally complete or not, we cannot know; but we do know that some boxes in that southeast corner are prohibiting Williams from seeing deep into that corner). ....

"Well, at the time I couldn't see too much of the sixth floor, because the books at the time were stacked so high. I could see only in the path that I was standing--as I remember, I could not possibly see anything to the east side of the building." -- Bonnie Ray Williams

But Oswald's rifle was probably already completely assembled when Williams was on the sixth floor....so there's no need for any noise to be coming from the metal parts in this "rifle" regard.

And I think it's logical to assume that Oswald was probably getting a tad anxious, waiting for his prey to turn from Main to Houston...and, at the same time, wondering if he'll have to abandon his murder attempt due to Williams' pesky presence on the very same 6th Floor. So Oswald quietly moves to the window and looks out a couple of times (per Brennan), but without his rifle in his hands....the rifle is no doubt resting at Oswald's feet in the SN.

Re: Howard Brennan -- I'm going to have to take issue with Mr. Brennan's account of seeing Oswald sitting "sideways on the window sill", however. I'm just doubting that was even physically possible, given the arrangement of book cartons IN the window itself. And it doesn't seem likely that Oswald would want to sit up on the sill anyhow, thereby making himself even MORE visible to anyone outside.

However, as a footnote to my last comments, it's possible (but not provable by any means) that Oswald had not yet placed the rifle-rest boxes in the window at the time Brennan said he saw the man (later IDed by Brennan as Lee Oswald) sitting "sideways on the window sill".

Perhaps Oswald, as alluded to previously, was interrupted (by Williams' presence) during the construction of his Sniper's Nest (the timeline was, indeed, a fairly-tight one, granted, between Givens seeing Oswald at approx. 11:55 and Williams arriving back on the 6th Floor a very few minutes later...with Williams seeing nobody at all on the entire sixth floor).

So, Brennan could very well be correct re. the "sideways on the sill" observation. But I'm going to exercise my proverbial "grain of salt" option when considering the accuracy of such a "sideways" observation.


12:10-12:15 PM -- Bonnie Ray Williams finishes his "chicken-on-the-bone" sandwich (~LOL~) and his Dr. Pepper soft drink and vacates the sixth floor (after Williams heard some activity on the 5th Floor below him). Williams takes an elevator down one flight to join two other employees on the fifth floor to watch the motorcade.

Lee Oswald now is alone, once again, on the Texas School Book Depository's sixth floor. He has approximately 15 minutes to wait until the President will come into his view on the street below him.

During these last few minutes prior to 12:30 PM, it's possible that Oswald puts some finishing touches on his Sniper's Nest....and/or his rifle-rest cartons.

Regarding the 5th-Floor witnesses (Harold Norman, James Jarman, and Bonnie Ray Williams), and what they heard.....

Norman stated positively that he heard three rifle shots being fired from directly above him. And he told Vincent Bugliosi in 1986 that he heard precisely three "hulls" (shells) hitting the floor as the shooting was taking place above him....

BUGLIOSI -- "And by 'hulls', you mean cartridge casings?"
NORMAN -- "Cartridges."
BUGLIOSI -- "How many did you hear falling to the floor?"
NORMAN -- "Three."

Now, as far as the fifth-floor witnesses not specifically hearing any footsteps from the assassin upstairs just before and just after the assassination -- I'd ask: What difference does that really make?

Obviously, SOMEBODY was up on that sixth floor, in that Sniper's Nest, firing a gun (be it Lee Harvey Oswald or somebody else....SOME HUMAN BEING WITH TWO FEET was up there with a gun).

So the conspiracy theorists who think it's odd to have Norman, Jarman, and Williams not hearing the footsteps of Oswald just prior to and just after 12:30 on November 22nd are not thinking the situation through logically.

Because somebody was located in that southeast corner of the 6th Floor at 12:30 (and, naturally, just a little bit PRIOR to 12:30 too)....so if it wasn't Lee Oswald doing the shooting, then the CTers have to wonder why the "real killer's" footsteps were not heard by N,J,&W either. It turns out to be a moot argument from anyone's particular point-of-view.

POST-SHOOTING CHRONOLOGY......

Lee Oswald is able to perform his deadly deed at 12:30, as he fires three of his four bullets from his 6th-Floor window, killing JFK with shot #3. I'm guessing that Oswald, too, like the rest of the world, was very surprised indeed that he had actually been able to pull off this task in total secrecy from his workplace (not counting Mr. Brennan outside the building). I'm doubting LHO thought he'd REALLY get a golden chance to do it.

But, unfortunately, he was given that chance when Williams vacated the sixth floor....and Oswald was aided further, as it turns out, when no other employees decided they would use the SIXTH floor as a parade-watching perch that Friday.


12:30:30 PM -- Lee Harvey Oswald's task is completed. He pauses at the window for just a moment (per Brennan's account), and then disappears from Brennan's view.

Oswald, in his haste, leaves the three traceable rifle shells and the brown paper sack in the Sniper's Nest. He hustles (with rifle in hand, and with one remaining bullet chambered in his Carcano, if needed) to the northwest corner of the sixth floor.

It's my personal belief that Oswald (during this trip to the NW corner) was wiping as many fingerprints off of his Mannlicher-Carcano rifle as he could in the time allowed. He was very likely (IMO) using the brown shirt in which he was arrested to perform this print-wiping task.

Oswald gets to the northwest corner of the building without being seen by anyone. He notices that neither of the two freight elevators is on his floor. So he's forced to take the nearby stairs in that NW corner of the building.

He stashes his rifle between some boxes very close to the stairway. It's possible that Oswald had PRE-ARRANGED this rifle-stowing location prior to the assassination. We can never know this for sure, of course. But I think it's possible.

However, I'll add here my own confusion with respect to Oswald's seemingly willy-nilly attitude toward the evidence he was leaving behind....because, as you'll recall a little bit ago, I postulated that Oswald might have been of the initial opinion that he'd be able to slip the rifle (somehow, some way) back into the paper bag and perhaps get it out of the building in such a manner.

But if he had PRE-arranged a rifle-stashing location near the stairs, that would mean he probably wasn't thinking of removing the rifle from the 6th Floor at all. Who can know for sure? No one can. Perhaps Oswald was thinking along BOTH of those lines.

Here's a possibility to consider as well (re. the rifle) -- If Oswald had never been given the chance to shoot at the President (and IMO it's VERY likely that Oswald was thinking that he might very well NOT have this perfect opportunity to carry out the shooting), it's quite possible, indeed, that Oswald would have made BOTH of the previously-mentioned rifle-hiding provisions -- e.g., pre-arranging a place on the NW side to hide the rifle from view AND having a potential need for that brown paper bag once again (even after 12:30, given the possibility he might never fire the weapon at all).

Via the last option, it's likely Oswald would probably still not want to waltz out the front door of the Depository carrying a fully-assembled Carcano rifle in full view of many people. (It could look kinda bad, in a "Maybe That Guy Is Up To No Good With That Rifle The Same Day The President Has Passed By This Building" sort of fashion.)

So, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Oswald could have planned out BOTH of those rifle-stashing options on November 22.

Granted, in the option where Oswald doesn't fire the gun at all, he COULD have simply left the bag on the WEST side of the building....and then casually retrieved it after 12:30. (In such a situation, of course, no shots would have been fired, and nobody would be rushing into the building searching desperately for a gunman; hence, Oswald would not need to be in a really big hurry to gather up the bag.)

Continuing on with Oswald's post-shooting movements......


Cont...
 
Oct 16, 2015
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Cont...

12:31-12:32 PM -- Oswald travels quickly down to the second floor of the TSBD via the back stairway. (It's possible that the reason he ducked off at Floor #2 is because he heard the footsteps of the approaching Roy Truly and Marrion Baker.)

Oswald is then stopped at gunpoint in the second-floor lunchroom by Officer Marrion Baker. LHO is then immediately cleared as an employee and is let go by Baker.

Oswald is calm, silent, and unflustered during his encounter with Baker (per Baker's testimony). This reaction, IMO, is much more indicative of GUILT than with INNOCENCE.

If innocent, isn't it quite likely that Oswald would have been a bit scared, rattled, and probably would have at least said to Baker, "What the hell is this?! What's going on?! I didn't do anything! Why are you stopping me?!"

Oswald, instead, is dead-quiet. Never changing his expression one bit (per Baker).


12:32 PM -- Oswald then buys a soft drink from the soda machine in the lunchroom, and then strolls casually and unhurriedly toward the stairs near the 2nd-Floor offices (after having just been cleared as a worker in the building, thereby probably allowing Oswald to relax a little bit more at that point in time).

Mrs. Robert A. Reid sees Oswald with a full beverage bottle. She says to him "The President has been shot". Oswald mumbles something incoherent and continues toward the front stairs, which lead to the first-floor TSBD entrance.


12:33 PM -- Lee Harvey Oswald exits the Texas School Book Depository, approximately four minutes before Dallas police officers seal off the building.


12:40 PM -- Oswald boards a bus on Elm Street, east of the Book Depository. He stays on the bus about 4 minutes, gets a transfer from driver Cecil McWatters, and then exits the bus. Mary Bledsoe positively identifies Oswald as having been on board McWatters' bus on 11/22/63.

Oswald, in an out-of-character move (given his usual tightfisted habits), spends 95 cents ($1.00 with the whopping tip given to driver William Whaley) on a cab ride from the Greyhound bus station to the general area of his Oak Cliff roominghouse.

Oswald has Whaley take him PAST the roominghouse at 1026 North Beckley Avenue (probably so that Lee can check to see if any cops are near his home at the time), with Oswald getting out of Whaley's cab at the intersection of Neely and Beckley, three blocks beyond his rented room.

Oswald then backtracks the three blocks and rushes into his roominghouse at approximately 12:59-1:00 PM.

Housekeeper Earlene Roberts said the following (during a re-enactment that was done for the 1964 movie "Four Days In November").....

"I got word about the President being killed...and he come in, in a hurry. I said 'Ooh, you're in a hurry'. He never parted his lips....he went to his room, got a short coat to put on, and then he walked on out to the bus stop....and that's the last I saw of him."


1:14-1:15 PM -- Oswald shoots and kills Dallas policeman J.D. Tippit on Tenth Street (0.85 of a mile from the roominghouse Oswald just left a short time earlier).

Multiple witnesses verify it was Lee Harvey Oswald who killed Officer Tippit. Bullet shells from Oswald's revolver ("to the exclusion") were recovered by THREE different witnesses at the Tippit murder scene.

TIPPIT'S MURDER AND THE SILLY ATTEMPTS TO DEFEND OSWALD

Oswald is next seen by Johnny Brewer at approximately 1:35 to 1:40 PM. Brewer notices Oswald's "funny" and "scared" look as LHO lurks in the entrance of Brewer's shoe store.

Brewer follows Oswald a short distance up Jefferson Boulevard and watches as Oswald slips into the Texas Theater (without paying). Brewer confers with Texas Theater employee Julia Postal about the man who just entered the theater. Postal calls the police.

The following passage can be found in Julia Postal's WC testimony transcript....

"So, well, I called the police, and he wanted to know why I thought it was their man, and I said, "Well, I didn't know," and he said, "Well, it fits the description," and I have not---I said I hadn't heard the description. All I know is, "This man is running from them for some reason"."


1:50 PM -- Lee Harvey Oswald is apprehended in the Texas Theater. Oswald pulls his revolver on Dallas Police Officer M.N. McDonald and a wild fight ensues. While inside the theater, Oswald is heard to say "It's all over now" and/or "This is it".

After his arrest, Oswald repeatedly lies to the authorities about important issues connected to the investigation of the murders of President Kennedy and Officer Tippit.

[END TIMELINE.]




--------------------------

The above "Oswald timeline" is not perfect. It has some weaknesses, yes. The Arnold Rowland timeline isn't a perfect dead-on match. And the Bonnie Ray Williams timeframe isn't rock-solid either.

But those witnesses were not staring at their watches when they observed the things they observed and did the things they did on 11/22/63. And I'd say, generally-speaking (give or take a very few minutes in "real time"), that those witness accounts of the events of that November day work out pretty close to corroborating the general timeline I've laid out in this post.

The long and the short of the matter is this --- Just about every last thing Lee Harvey Oswald did both before and after the assassination of John F. Kennedy indicates a GUILTY LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

David Von Pein
April 2007
July 2009

RELATED LINK -- A "TIMELINE" CONVERSATION WITH DALE MYERS
 
Sep 30, 2014
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#44
Do you know how many people personally heard and then watched the planes flying into the WTC buildings? Thousands. Some even filmed it. I watched the second plane hit on live television as they were discussing what might have happened to the first building. Are you suggesting commercial planes did not fly into the buildings? We all just imagined we say it happen and those planes made it to there destinations and those passengers are hiding some place.

I have a friend who was walking outside of the Pentagon when the plane flew into the Pentagon. He was not the only witness. There were hundreds, maybe thousands of people who heard the plane and saw the plane lining up to fly into the Pentagon. Parts of the plane were lying outside of the Pentagon on the lawn. Parts went into the building and were recovered. Parts of people were also recovered. You lunatics believe a missile hit the Pentagon. Just think how crazy that is. Who fired it? Why? Where was it fired from? Why didn't anyone see the missile? Why are there no missing missiles? Then where did the missing plane go? Where did the passengers on that plane go? What about the phone calls made from the plane's passengers to family members, saying the plane was taken over by Arabs? Explain all of this. Nope, you can't.

I'll tell you about your goofy conspiracy theory. Almost all buildings collapse the way the WTC buildings collapsed. I learned enough in seventh grade science to understand it. When the damaged support beams could no longer support the weight of the floors above them, they gave way. When those upper floors pancaked down, their weight combined with the speed of falling created a force so great they buckled the supports in the floors below in rapid succession. It happened exactly how structural engineers said it would. You do not have 1500 architects and engineers who said it was impossible. You had a dozen or two kooks who refused to sit down and discuss the structural failures with actual engineers who tried to explain why it happened as it did. I've watched the nuts who made such claims and they were not engineers at all and they refused to listen to the proof of what happened.

Show me an interview with firemen who made some sort of claim about what they saw inside the building that supports your conspiracy theory. You have provided no proof, just stories that anyone can make up. Are you going to tell me explosives were planted inside the buildings and detonated? Who planted them? When did they plant them? Where did they buy the explosives? How did they hide the explosives? Did they know the Arab terrorists? Did they have radio communication with them? Why was there no evidence of explosives found? There was no visible sign of demolitions. The buildings were being filmed from the moment the first plane hit, yet there was no sign of demolition. No evidence has ever been presented to the public. Only kooks on forums like this making vague suggestions, with no proof. Like the crazy stories that Jews did it and they all were told to stay home that day. Yet it's so easy to look at all the victims and see that a good many of them were Jewish. Did the inventor of that crazy conspiracy not believe that we could just check out the names of the dead?

I recorded a documentary off of Newsx channel called The 9/11 Faker. Tania Head told an extraordinary story of escaping from the South Tower on 9/11 and losing her fiance' in the terrorist attacks, then it turns out her story is a hoax. People just believed her for years. Then it turned out she was living in France at the time of the attacks and was not engaged and she fled the U.S. when she was caught lying, finally. Then a few years later she anonymously wrote en email to some U.S. paper saying that Tania was dead and they should no longer try to track her down. She is just like all of you crazy people. You all want to think you are part of something. You can't think rationally. You'll allow these conspiracies to get into your heads and destroy your lives and your marriages and cost you your job and your friends. Pretty soon, it's just you and your five cats sitting around discussing various conspiracies. You are convinced those cats know the real truth. Sadly, the internet feeds you imagination and connects you to many others just as delusional as you. God help you.
They gave way all at the same time .... Number of engineers & architects said impossible.

I don't know what hit WTC for certain, see " project blue beam ". I didn't say there were no planes, yet you based half your response on it, and then call me stupid. I said aluminum wings tips cutting through steel beams is a strange occurrence. Now, do you want to talk about the put-options called in or the Engineers & architects that say this is in impossible feat ? How about Bill Cooper telling you months prior of the who and the what..

MK ultra, project paper clip, and other " conspiracies " have turned out to be true and fact for record. Instead of just call people stupid, kooks, and delusional. You should examine your own heart, and think about the way your talking to people. Before trying to discover truth, discover love and kindness for your fellow man and woman. Those would be my words to you, sinnerman.
 
Oct 16, 2015
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Then prove me wrong. You keep insisting on seeing video proof. Post some videos that show me without a doubt that Oswald alone killed JFK. You won't because you can't..
You feel even more stupid right about now, don't you?

It took me less than ten seconds to find the proof you will not accept and might not even read. So what's your excuse now?
 
Sep 30, 2014
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#46
You asked for witnesses/firemen of said " molten steel, like a foundry ". Here it is

[video=youtube;cCdRA09pztM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCdRA09pztM[/video]
 
Sep 30, 2014
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#47
[video=youtube;OsoY3AIRUGA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsoY3AIRUGA[/video]

Oh yeah, thermite found in the dust of WTC ... How do you explain this?
Anyway, there's a lot of eye witnesses, that spoke out but their stories were never part of the official narrative.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#48
You feel even more stupid right about now, don't you?

It took me less than ten seconds to find the proof you will not accept and might not even read. So what's your excuse now?

How is it that your rude, prideful, insulting mouth hasn't gotten you banned yet? All the mods need to do is read your posts and see how rude you are to everyone whom you disagree with. Anyhoo, I shall take time tomorrow to read all you've posted here on Oswald.. ta ta now..
 
Jun 23, 2015
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#49
They gave way all at the same time .... Number of engineers & architects said impossible.

I don't know what hit WTC for certain, see " project blue beam ". I didn't say there were no planes, yet you based half your response on it, and then call me stupid. I said aluminum wings tips cutting through steel beams is a strange occurrence. Now, do you want to talk about the put-options called in or the Engineers & architects that say this is in impossible feat ? How about Bill Cooper telling you months prior of the who and the what..

MK ultra, project paper clip, and other " conspiracies " have turned out to be true and fact for record. Instead of just call people stupid, kooks, and delusional. You should examine your own heart, and think about the way your talking to people. Before trying to discover truth, discover love and kindness for your fellow man and woman. Those would be my words to you, sinnerman.

What makes people think the planes werent part of the plan:p
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#50
No, there has never been an investigation with evidence that anyone but Oswald fired at President Kennedy. Don't make stuff up. There was sloppy forensic work done and the autopsy probably should have occurred in Dallas. But only Oswald fired at Kennedy.

You and Ladybug can keep saying there is more than enough evidence, just like people can say their are martians. But neither of you is offering any actual evidence. What does that tell you?
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/summary.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations#Members

above is link to national archives in DC and wiki link

these are the committee members - Thomas N. Downing, (Virginia) First Chairman Henry B. Gonzalez, (Texas), Second Chairman Louis Stokes, (Ohio), Third Chairman L. Richardson Preyer, (North Carolina) Walter E. Fauntroy, (District of Columbia) Yvonne Brathwaite Burke

i highlighted a few key points of interest from the archives link.

Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.

The Secret Service was deficient in the performance of its duties. The Secret Service possessed information that was not properly analyzed, investigated or used by the Secret Service in connection with the President's trip to Dallas; in addition, Secret Service agents in the motorcade were inadequately prepared to protect the President from a sniper.

The Warren Commission failed to investigate adequately the possibility of a conspiracy to assassinate the President. This deficiency was attributable in part to the failure of the Commission to receive all the relevant information that was in the possession of other agencies and departments of the Government.

all official info and keep in mind this was from back in the 70s. much more as surfaced since then











 
Oct 16, 2015
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#51
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/summary.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations#Members

above is link to national archives in DC and wiki link

these are the committee members - Thomas N. Downing, (Virginia) First Chairman Henry B. Gonzalez, (Texas), Second Chairman Louis Stokes, (Ohio), Third Chairman L. Richardson Preyer, (North Carolina) Walter E. Fauntroy, (District of Columbia) Yvonne Brathwaite Burke

i highlighted a few key points of interest from the archives link.

Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.

The Secret Service was deficient in the performance of its duties. The Secret Service possessed information that was not properly analyzed, investigated or used by the Secret Service in connection with the President's trip to Dallas; in addition, Secret Service agents in the motorcade were inadequately prepared to protect the President from a sniper.

The Warren Commission failed to investigate adequately the possibility of a conspiracy to assassinate the President. This deficiency was attributable in part to the failure of the Commission to receive all the relevant information that was in the possession of other agencies and departments of the Government.

all official info and keep in mind this was from back in the 70s. much more as surfaced since then
That's a lot of writing you posted and it all concludes that Oswald fired three shots at Kennedy and hit him twice. Everything else is a smokescreen. It doesn't matter how many cocktails secret service agents had the night before. Kennedy wanted the convertible. Inside a regular limo, it would have been a boring drive through Dallas.

There is no acoustical evidence. The motorcycle cops mic that was left open was later found to be on the other side of town. You have nothing. Three shots, three spent shells. The rifle was recovered. It was proven to have fired the three shots. None of the bullets was "magic". One missed and struck the pavement. One struck Kennedy and Governor Connally. One struck Kennedy in the back of his head. Read the evidence listed in the posts above. It is simple enough for a grade school child to understand. Then try to return with intelligent objections to the evidence. You can't. Notice there still has been nothing posted showing proof that LBJ was involved. What did I tell you?
 
Oct 16, 2015
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#52
What makes people think the planes werent part of the plan:p
Of course they were part of the plan. Bin Laden even said so. He sent those suicide fanatics to fly planes into buildings in the U.S. and three out of four succeeded. They were hugely successful.
 
Oct 16, 2015
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#53
Oh yeah, thermite found in the dust of WTC ... How do you explain this?
Anyway, there's a lot of eye witnesses, that spoke out but their stories were never part of the official narrative.
There are wonderful sites that quite easily explain all your paranoid conspiracies like thermite. Read it and weep.

Thermite and Sulfur- Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition

Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy theories and Controlled Demolition Myths

World Trade Center, South Tower (photo by Gulnara Samoilova / AP)
Journal Of Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories Volume 1 Issue 4 is out!
eSkeptic gives Debunking911.com a nod ~
[h=4]How Skeptics Confronted 9/11 Denialism [/h]by John Ray
...Yet, in just under four years, the 9/11 “truth movement” has ground to a halt. Apart from the fundamental incoherence of their theories, the downfall of the 9/11 denier juggernaut was good old-fashioned skepticism at its finest, the kind that conjures visions of James Randi challenging psychics and faith healers on their home turfs and winning. Skeptics are better at their jobs than they think, and its important to give credit where credit is due.
Staking their fortunes almost solely on Internet-based content may have been the 9/11 deniers’ biggest mistake. What seems like a perfect place for pseudoscience — the Internet is un-edited, without fact-checkers or minimum publishing standards of any kind — also became a perfect place for a rapid-response system of blogs and forums to fight back. Drawing on the freely available technical information from the NIST, FEMA, and academic journals which most colleges let their students access for free, skeptical sites like ScrewLooseChange.blogspot.com and debunking911.com are able to defuse 9/11 denier claims as they arise...


Important New Site ~ http://www.ae911truth.info addresses the misleading and deceitful conspiracy industries latest attempt at creating consumers for their products. From their blatant appeal to authority to misapplied science, ae911truth.info is a must for anyone seriously looking for truth.
New link ~ Frequently Asked Questions - "Why do you use the term "debunking" in your name? Doesn't that prove you already think you're right?"... "Why do you hide your identity?" "Who funds your site?"...The answer to those questions and much more are in the FAQ. Please read the FAQ before sending e-mail. Your questions about this site may already be answered.
New ~ WTC 7 explained in Structure Magazine. "Single Point of Failure: How the Loss of One Column May Have Led to the Collapse of WTC 7" points out that the failure of column 79 in the lower levels will create the very effect we see in videos
New ~ Quick Answers and links page. Quickly debunk the most commonly repeated conspiracy myths.
9/11 Conspiracy Theorists: "Don't ignore me, bro!" Evidence most people do not believe the towers were blown up.
Readers E-mails ~ Here are some thought provoking e-mails from our readers.
New Paper ~ Professor of Civil, Structural and Environmental Engineering at Cambridge University passes yet another peer reviewed paper by a RESPECTED engineering Journal saying the towers collapsed the way they did without the need of explosives.
Update ~ The real conspiracy, the administrations rush to war and the evidence for an investigation people should be fighting for.
Link ~ The Italian debunker does it again! Uninterruptible power supply on the 81st floor may be yet another explanation for the molten flow coming from the 81st floor window.
New Page ~ In Defense of Rosie. Why Rosie O'Donnell shouldn't be fired from 'The View' but should reexamine the WTC 7 collapse.
New Video ~ Frustrated fireman agonizes over not being able to go into "leaning" Building 7 and save it from certain doom.
Update ~ An Italian debunker over seas put an iron slab to the test. Shoots down Steven Jones alleged thermite photo. Badda Bing!
Uncomfortable Questions ~ Was the Death Star Attack an Inside Job?
New Search Engine ~ Debunking 9/11's "9/11 POWER Debunker" Over 200 9/11 related web sites and thousands of pages of facts, papers and commentary!
New Video ~ Did the BBC know the WTC 7 was going to be blown up or is this conspiracy story just petty revenge?
New Video ~ Shows us what he saw from the south side of Building 7!
Updated ~ The NIST and "Pancaking". More deception from conspiracy theorists...
Must Read! ~ 9-11 and the New Pearl Harbor (Part I) (Part II)
http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2577/9_11_and_the_New_Pearl_Harbor_Part_I
Reply to conspiracy theorist hit piece ~ Below and on the World Trade Center 7 page I respond to a conspiracy theorist's hit piece which mocks my grammar and distorts the firefighters quotes.
Debunking 9/11 exclusive! ~ Portion of World Trade Center 7 South Side Hole
Updated ~ Prof. Steven E Jones The controversial professor of BYU's Cold Fusion physics department and his scholars for truth. Jones is placed on leave with pay and my view on the topic.
Added ~ Examination of evidence concerning asbestos at the towers and occupancy at the time of the attack.
Debunking 911 Links - 9/11 Conspiracy debunking sites... Peer reviewed papers and articles on how the towers collapsed..
Molten Steel Explained - Conspiracy sites like to bring up molten steel found 6 weeks after the buildings fell to suggest a bomb must have created the effect. There is another explanation which is more plausible.
"Iron Burns!!! Mark R Ferran's E-mails to the scholars explaining to them how iron can burn/oxidize in low temperature fires.
The "Squib" Squabble - An examination of the evidence which squelches the "Squibs" issue.
Rethinking Thermite - The reality of thermite and an examination of the evidence
The Free Fall Fallacy - Photographic evidence the towers did not fall at free fall speed.
World Trade Center 7 - Firefighter interviews proving Silverstein meant "pull" the ongoing [rescue operations] out of building 7's immediate area. Proof also that Building 7 was a lot worse than conspiracy theorists lead you to believe.
Columns and Trusses - Photographic evidence the trusses sagged due to fire and pulled the columns in causing the catastrophic collapse.
Peer Reviewed Paper - A look at the only paper which passed peer review on what caused the WTC collapse and the people behind it.
The Fire - The fireman's quote saying all that was needed was two fire hoses to put out the fires is taken out of context by conspiracy theorists.
The Firefighter Quotes - Evidence that conspiracy theorists are lying and taking firefighter quotes out of context.
Civil Engineers' Quotes Structural and Civil Engineers who have spoken out against Controlled Demolition conspiracy theory.
Osama Bin Laden - "A few Arabs in the desert could not have pulled this off..." Why Osama is perfect for this attack.
The Zogby Poll - Conspiracy sites point to a Zogby poll which they suggest proves that the American people think the government blew up the towers. Why that's not the case.
Real Conspiracy - What a real conspiracy looks like. Ironically, this conspiracy goes unnoticed by the conspiracy theorists.
First time in history - Conspiracy sites bring up the fact that the towers were the first steel high raises to fall in history. The fact is the towers had a lot of firsts that day.
The Meeting - The absurd meeting which must have occurred between government accomplices if conspiracy theorists are right.
Sounds of Explosions - A look at a possible explanation for what some people saw and heard.
Massive Conspiracy - All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...
Debunking 911 Links - 9/11 Conspiracy debunking sites... Peer reviewed papers and articles on how the towers collapsed..
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#54
That's a lot of writing you posted and it all concludes that Oswald fired three shots at Kennedy and hit him twice. Everything else is a smokescreen. It doesn't matter how many cocktails secret service agents had the night before. Kennedy wanted the convertible. Inside a regular limo, it would have been a boring drive through Dallas.

There is no acoustical evidence. The motorcycle cops mic that was left open was later found to be on the other side of town. You have nothing. Three shots, three spent shells. The rifle was recovered. It was proven to have fired the three shots. None of the bullets was "magic". One missed and struck the pavement. One struck Kennedy and Governor Connally. One struck Kennedy in the back of his head. Read the evidence listed in the posts above. It is simple enough for a grade school child to understand. Then try to return with intelligent objections to the evidence. You can't. Notice there still has been nothing posted showing proof that LBJ was involved. What did I tell you?
do you not know how to read?

Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President.

this means more than likely more than one person was involved. you ever hear the phrase "it would take an act of congress" to do something.there would never in a million years be a 2nd investigation unless their was a mountain of facts against the official version. and there was. a few things about oswald - he was a socialist, member of the communist party, had a russian wife and active in the affairs of cuba.
and according to what you posted, his motive - "Lee Harvey Oswald hated America and its Government's representatives."

yet Kennedy was the one that intervened and stopped the invasion in cuba and was bending over backwards to make peace with russia and cuba. the 2 places oswald loved. if you study Kennedys policies, he was fighting against the same things that oswald was so active in protesting. makes no sense he would want to kill him.
 
Oct 16, 2015
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#55
do you not know how to read?

Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President.

this means more than likely more than one person was involved. you ever hear the phrase "it would take an act of congress" to do something.there would never in a million years be a 2nd investigation unless their was a mountain of facts against the official version. and there was. a few things about oswald - he was a socialist, member of the communist party, had a russian wife and active in the affairs of cuba.
and according to what you posted, his motive - "Lee Harvey Oswald hated America and its Government's representatives."

yet Kennedy was the one that intervened and stopped the invasion in cuba and was bending over backwards to make peace with russia and cuba. the 2 places oswald loved. if you study Kennedys policies, he was fighting against the same things that oswald was so active in protesting. makes no sense he would want to kill him.

I know how to read quite well. I see no acoustical evidence whatsoever. I merely see that you typed the words; scientific acoustical evidence on your post. You see, there is no evidence that anyone other than Oswald fired at Kennedy. You don't possess such evidence. Nobody does. There isn't any. You just typed something you read on the internet. Now, run along and go find some actual evidence. Meanwhile read the mountains of information I posted showing how delusional your conspiracies are.
 
Oct 16, 2015
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#56
do you not know how to read?

Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy.
What is so consistently predictable about you conspiracy nuts is that you do a google search of something like; Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy, and when you see a link immediately below the one you post, saying; Acoustic Evidence in Kennedy Shooting Fails, you purposely refuse to read that link that proves your link is not valid or true. Let me help you out.

Acoustic Evidence in Kennedy Shooting Fails

Alfred Lee (letter, March 2) refers to the House Select Committee on Assassinations, which in 1979 came to the conclusion that "scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy." Mr. Lee does not mention that the finding of the House committee was refuted by a committee established by the National Research Council (of the National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, Institute of Medicine), which reported in 1982 (particularly Science, Oct. 8, 1982, pages 127-33). This committee on ballistic acoustics, on which I served, was headed by Norman F. Ramsey, professor of physics at Harvard University.
The Department of Justice requested us to review the methodology in previous evaluations of the acoustic data (from the routine recordings of the Dallas Police Department radio channels) and conclusions about a shot from the grassy knoll. We unanimously concluded that "the acoustic impulses attributed to gunshots were recorded about one minute after President Kennedy had been shot and the motorcade had been instructed to go to the hospital."
This conclusion is most readily established by the finding of a phrase, "hold everything," on the individual recordings of both police radio channels and overlapping the recorded signals claimed by previous investigators to be gunshots. Since "hold everything secure until the homicide and other investigators can get there" is clearly audible on channel II and was evidently spoken about a minute after the events of Dealey Plaza, the acoustic evidence cannot be used to support allegations of a second gunman. Steve Barber, a musician, brought the tell-tale "hold everything" to the attention of our committee. RICHARD L. GARWIN Yorktown Heights, N.Y., March 3, 1992 The writer is adjunct professor of physics at Columbia University.

Acoustic Evidence in Kennedy Shooting Fails - NYTimes.com


I'm beginning to feel sorry for you. It's like you have a medical condition that makes it impossible for you to think and reason rationally.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#57
I know how to read quite well. I see no acoustical evidence whatsoever. I merely see that you typed the words; scientific acoustical evidence on your post. You see, there is no evidence that anyone other than Oswald fired at Kennedy. You don't possess such evidence. Nobody does. There isn't any. You just typed something you read on the internet. Now, run along and go find some actual evidence. Meanwhile read the mountains of information I posted showing how delusional your conspiracies are.
i didnt type that like i said before i copied that from the archive of the investigation results.

You don't possess such evidence. Nobody does. There isn't any.
if there was none they never would have done a 2nd investigation (like a said before).

Meanwhile read the mountains of information I posted showing how delusional your conspiracies are
i did and posted a logical statement you didnt seem to have an answer for.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#59
What is so consistently predictable about you conspiracy nuts is that you do a google search of something like; Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy, and when you see a link immediately below the one you post, saying; Acoustic Evidence in Kennedy Shooting Fails, you purposely refuse to read that link that proves your link is not valid or true. Let me help you out.

Acoustic Evidence in Kennedy Shooting Fails

Acoustic Evidence in Kennedy Shooting Fails - NYTimes.com


I'm beginning to feel sorry for you. It's like you have a medical condition that makes it impossible for you to think and reason rationally.
the link i provided was from the findings of the U.S. House of Representatives.

"medical condition" no need for the name calling, we are not on the playground in jr high.
 
Sep 30, 2014
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#60
Sinnerman, none of that had anything to do with a single point I brought fourth. Anyone can say they debunked this or did such and such. These are the facts, that you divert from. They are not influenced just by the Internet, these are real people with real stories, these are people who's job depends they get these things right, saying this is IMPOSSIBLE, these people know or knew it was coming.