The Riddle of Steel

[UnoiAmarah]

Living communally, not every person needed a house of their own, and their relinquishing of their personal property was by choice, not force, a choice from which they also drew benefits. In communism, the state seizes everything whether the individual gives consent or not. They don't have a choice in the matter.

By living communally do you mean like the living arrangement of the members of the churches of Jim Jones or David Koresh?

As far as being by choice, buying stock in IBM when it was first being offered was a choice, because the person wouldn't lose anything as a direct result of their decision to buy the stock, nor would they be cast into hell if they decided not to buy the stock.

As far as relinquishing their property by choice and not force, according to the NIV it is written in Acts 5:4, "Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God."

So if the land belonged to the person before they sold it, then wouldn't the money belong to them after they sold it? So if they didn't give all the money to the Apostles, then why did Jesus kill Ananias and his wife Sapphira for keeping back part of the price they sold they land for?

 

[1christian1]

By living communally do you mean like the living arrangement of the members of the churches of Jim Jones or David Koresh?

As far as being by choice, buying stock in IBM when it was first being offered was a choice, because the person wouldn't lose anything as a direct result of their decision to buy the stock, nor would they be cast into hell if they decided not to buy the stock.

As far as relinquishing their property by choice and not force, according to the NIV it is written in Acts 5:4, "Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God."

So if the land belonged to the person before they sold it, then wouldn't the money belong to them after they sold it? So if they didn't give all the money to the Apostles, then why did Jesus kill Ananias and his wife Sapphira for keeping back part of the price they sold they land for?

Huh.????????????

 

[Magenta]

By living communally do you mean like the living arrangement of the members of the churches of Jim Jones or David Koresh?

I thought we were discussing the first century church of Acts, since you yourself brought it up.

 

[1christian1]

I thought we were discussing the first century church of Acts, since you yourself brought it up.

LOL...

 

[Magenta]

LOL...

Indeed

 

[JeremiahsCup]

When you want to live communally and you need steel to take your country from an agrarian backwater to a modern industrial economy powerful enough to make the world shake:

 

[Magenta]

When you want to live communally and you need steel to take your country from an agrarian backwater to a modern industrial economy powerful enough to make the world shake:

Fourteen times the normal amount of coal dug by one man in one shift?

I wonder how long he was able to keep that up

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Fourteen times the normal amount of coal dug by one man in one shift?

I wonder how long he was able to keep that up

One shift lol, that is the record. More coal for the Man of Steel.

Also to butt in on the digressions over communism (though in many ways communism is indeed linked to the Riddle of Steel.) The simple answer to why communism is a lie and no one can ever really achieve it though many have tried: Because you can't have a godless world where the Lord God rules all.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

"Stalin, Stalin's gonna double steel. Mess with him and you will know the feel." ---cheesy youtube Stalin Theme Song.

In the late 19th century and especially the 20th century the Riddle of Steel goes deepest. Every major player in the history of those times strove with the Riddle of Steel. In many ways we see the major world leaders of the last century in their times intimately connect their nations to steel, and in many ways their various quests for the Riddle of Steel shape them as much as they shape both the Riddle and the metal and add to it.

Because no study of mad and powerful men trying to solve the Riddle of Steel is complete without the internet's favorite person:

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Well sorry for the triple post, but while mung over this both ancient and modern riddle, I found actually some great footage of the American epic past when our grandfather's generation were young and believed in Jesus before our wicked parents were born and joined Babylon and lost the Riddle of Steel. A very interestingly phrased video I literally just found on a whim, praise Jesus. It is a good exposition on how a godly populace approaches the Riddle of Steel. Immediately after viewing it I am struck immediately by two verses from the Bible.

Joel 3:10

10 Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

Isaiah 2:4

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

The Riddle of Steel reveals the answer to a great historical mystery and miracle; the rise of the modern American economy. America's once prosperous and industrial quality when they were Christians and not like Babylon, and fought Babylon, and unlike the pagans' many erroneous way of approaching the Riddle of Steel, in many ways poetically idolatrous fashion, the godly Americans approached the Riddle to great effect. Arguably its greatest both creation and effective use of steel in all of history by how the steel was used and the quality and the quantity and the times. Even the godly nations and regimes of the past tackle the Riddle of Steel, adding to its mystery but also uncovering it and using both the Riddle and the metal itself in peace and war. The differences between the use of the wicked and the use of the godly are profound and rich in adding to this grand conspiracy theory of nations and power players, praise Jesus.

These People: WW2 Industrial Production (1944)

 

[Magenta]

. . . A very interestingly phrased video I literally just found on a whim, praise Jesus. It is a good exposition on how a godly populace approaches the Riddle of Steel. Immediately after viewing it I am struck immediately by two verses from the Bible.

Joel 3:10
10 Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

Isaiah 2:4
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I too was thinking of these verses before you posted them

 

[Magenta]

Well sorry for the triple post, but while mung over this both ancient and modern riddle, I found actually some great footage of the American epic past when our grandfather's generation were young and believed in Jesus before our wicked parents were born and joined Babylon and lost the Riddle of Steel.

My parents were not wicked

 

[UnoiAmarah]

I thought we were discussing the first century church of Acts, since you yourself brought it up.

I was simply trying to find out what you meant by 'communal living', did they all live in one house with many rooms are did they live in many houses on one piece of land.

While some translations interpret the scriptures as Jesus said that in his Father's house there are many mansions, other translations it is written that Jesus said in his Father's house there are many rooms. If it will be done on earth as it is in heaven, then your use of communal living could be different than what say someone who is given a white stone might define 'communal living'

If communism is defined as a classless system in which the means of production are owned communally and private property is nonexistent or severely curtailed, then I fail to see the difference since neither allows for private ownership of property property regardless of whether by consent or coercion.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Huh.????????????

Read Acts 5 beginning at the 1st verse.

 

[Magenta]

I was simply trying to find out what you meant by 'communal living', did they all live in one house with many rooms are did they live in many houses on one piece of land.

While some translations interpret the scriptures as Jesus said that in his Father's house there are many mansions, other translations it is written that Jesus said in his Father's house there are many rooms. If it will be done on earth as it is in heaven, then your use of communal living could be different than what say someone who is given a white stone might define 'communal living'

If communism is defined as a classless system in which the means of production are owned communally and private property is nonexistent or severely curtailed, then I fail to see the difference since neither allows for private ownership of property property regardless of whether by consent or coercion.

Does Scripture say how many houses they owned? I don't think so.

So who owned the houses they live in after they sold them and the money to the apostles?

Acts 4:32-37 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the LORD Jesus. And God's grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means "son of encouragement"), sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Does Scripture say how many houses they owned? I don't think so.

Why would you think it needed to?

"...for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,..."
Acts 4:34

So are you saying that they only sold their land or houses if they owned more than right?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

So who owned the houses they live in after they sold them and the money to the apostles?

Acts 4:32-37 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the LORD Jesus. And God's grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means "son of encouragement"), sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet.

Since you have quoted my question twice, if you are attempting to show my poor typing ability then I will agree with you, it is.
Since the fingers on my left hand are disfigured it makes it difficult from me to type, so if I believe the person I am replying could reasonably comprehend what I am trying to say I don't correct it since that really gets frustrating. So yes when I didn't hit the 'd' key after live I lost my concentration and skip typing 'give' all together thinking about missing the 'd' key when I wouldn't have if my hand wasn't messed up. And since over-type turns on automatically when I attempt to type anything on this site, that makes it even more difficult.

 

[Magenta]

Since you have quoted my question twice, if you are attempting to show my poor typing ability then I will agree with you, it is.
Since the fingers on my left hand are disfigured it makes it difficult from me to type, so if I believe the person I am replying could reasonably comprehend what I am trying to say I don't correct it since that really gets frustrating. So yes when I didn't hit the 'd' key after live I lost my concentration and skip typing 'give' all together thinking about missing the 'd' key when I wouldn't have if my hand wasn't messed up. And since over-type turns on automatically when I attempt to type anything on this site, that makes it even more difficult.

No, not at all. Your question was concerning the first century church, to which I originally responded, and then you asked about modern people (David Koresh, Jim Jones), so I was bringing the conversation back to the topic of the Acts' church, rather than going off on the other tangents being presenting.

 

[Magenta]

Why would you think it needed to?

"...for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,..."
Acts 4:34

So are you saying that they only sold their land or houses if they owned more than right?

I didn't say it would need to, only that it doesn't. Why do assume I think it? You asked WHO owned the houses. If we knew who, we might know how many, but no number is given for either. What I am saying is pretty straight forward.

 

[1christian1]

Well sorry for the triple post, but while mung over this both ancient and modern riddle, I found actually some great footage of the American epic past when our grandfather's generation were young and believed in Jesus before our wicked parents were born and joined Babylon and lost the Riddle of Steel. A very interestingly phrased video I literally just found on a whim, praise Jesus. It is a good exposition on how a godly populace approaches the Riddle of Steel. Immediately after viewing it I am struck immediately by two verses from the Bible.

Joel 3:10

10 Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

Isaiah 2:4

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

The Riddle of Steel reveals the answer to a great historical mystery and miracle; the rise of the modern American economy. America's once prosperous and industrial quality when they were Christians and not like Babylon, and fought Babylon, and unlike the pagans' many erroneous way of approaching the Riddle of Steel, in many ways poetically idolatrous fashion, the godly Americans approached the Riddle to great effect. Arguably its greatest both creation and effective use of steel in all of history by how the steel was used and the quality and the quantity and the times. Even the godly nations and regimes of the past tackle the Riddle of Steel, adding to its mystery but also uncovering it and using both the Riddle and the metal itself in peace and war. The differences between the use of the wicked and the use of the godly are profound and rich in adding to this grand conspiracy theory of nations and power players, praise Jesus.

These People: WW2 Industrial Production (1944)

I don't know about all that but from personal experience I can tell you that the town which I grew up (pop. 150,000) employed 30,000 worker's. (My Grandfather worked there all his life) But , because of union's (mob) and other influences they got good pay. so much so that China was able to come here ship steel back to China, and sell it back to us cheaper. The steel mill that provided one fourth of cities jobs, closed down in 1985.I don't know what happened to the rest of the country but this was our experience.