Ukraine the bad guy?

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Russia is prone to utilizing their old military strategy. Cannon fodder. They don’t value human lives. Not even their own peoples lives. They just throw them in hoping the enemy will run out of soldiers before themselves. This strategy works well when you have a bus load of allies supplying you with weapons, like we did during WWII, but today the situation is different.
Actually, this is the folly of the AFU.

Evidently the Russians have erected massive and deep defense structures in the south. Looks like they are not going anywhere.
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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Actually, this is the folly of the AFU.

Evidently the Russians have erected massive and deep defense structures in the south. Looks like they are not going anywhere.
Well, they were dug with stolen equipment...not by hand. (Easy stuff to do requiring minimal effort)
It's actually easy to make trenches....it's a LOT harder to fill them.
There's a lot of evidence to suggest that Russia is running short of equipment and qualified manpower.

Commanders are in short supply...so are supplies. Where everyone watches ammunition carefully an army doesn't operate just on bullets alone. In the video you posted earlier the soldier was wearing foot wraps instead of socks....not that Russians don't wear socks...they do. But they are out of socks and now have to rely upon foot wraps. Same problem with NV goggles and scopes. Same with winter clothing and boots. Stealing supplies and selling them on the black market is a foregone conclusion for soldiers. Has been for a long time.

Good leaders are difficult to find in the military to begin with. It's an inherent skill that most don't have. That's why there have been mutiny and lots of soldiers are posted in the rear to shoot deserters.

Ukraine has the upper hand in the coming offensive with better training, high morale and trust in the command structure. Also modern weaponry and supplies donated by the WHOLE WORLD.

You can side with the perpetrator in this conflict or you can side with those who say it is wrong to steal and lie.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Well, they were dug with stolen equipment...not by hand. (Easy stuff to do requiring minimal effort)
It's actually easy to make trenches....it's a LOT harder to fill them.
I have had to dig actual trenches. And it was anything but easy.

The problem for the AFU is that they can muster maybe 200K troops. Russia has mustered 700K, most of whom are being held as reserves.

With an attrition rate of 7:1 to 5:1 in favor of the Russians, this conflict cannot go but one way.

Who you gonna blame? Blame the evil one and his minions, to whom the various world leaders dutifully beckon.
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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I have had to dig actual trenches. And it was anything but easy.

The problem for the AFU is that they can muster maybe 200K troops. Russia has mustered 700K, most of whom are being held as reserves.

With an attrition rate of 7:1 to 5:1 in favor of the Russians, this conflict cannot go but one way.

Who you gonna blame? Blame the evil one and his minions, to whom the various world leaders dutifully beckon.
I'm not looking for a winning side.
I'm looking solely at the morality of the two sides fighting. There's a difference between stealing a penny gumball and having gunmen come in and steal the register contents in a grocery store....where they both technically are stealing one is a much more serious crime than the other.

And where the spring offensive of Ukrainians might not put an end to the conflict...I do see the landscape changing to where the Ukranians will hold more of their homeland than the Russians do.

And that's what the Ukranians are fighting for...their homes and families. You can claim that the mother bear can't take care of her three cubs and you want one...but you still have to fight her for it. And in this case Russia is fighting alone with the WHOLE WORLD backing the mom.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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I have had to dig actual trenches. And it was anything but easy.

The problem for the AFU is that they can muster maybe 200K troops. Russia has mustered 700K, most of whom are being held as reserves.

With an attrition rate of 7:1 to 5:1 in favor of the Russians, this conflict cannot go but one way.

Who you gonna blame? Blame the evil one and his minions, to whom the various world leaders dutifully beckon.
What if you have a backhoe?
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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They have a BTM-3 trenching machines on truck chassis according to a quick search:):unsure:(y)
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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They have a BTM-3 trenching machines on truck chassis according to a quick search:):unsure:(y)
Technology comes to the rescue when we need to figure out how to kill more safely and efficiently.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I'm not looking for a winning side.
I'm looking solely at the morality of the two sides fighting.
Thats your problem. Trying to determine who is the badder of the bad guys is a fools errand.

And quite frankly, far beyond our purview and pay grade.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Thats your problem. Trying to determine who is the badder of the bad guys is a fools errand.

And quite frankly, far beyond our purview and pay grade.
it is like watching a rattlesnake and cobra fighting, and trying to decide which has a worse bite...
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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Thats your problem. Trying to determine who is the badder of the bad guys is a fools errand.

And quite frankly, far beyond our purview and pay grade.
What?
How many gumball thefts does it take to get the label of thief?

I have looked at the evidence....seen the accusations....investigated the allegations....listened to the people there. I've personally met people in that area and know them personally.

And I know beyond a doubt that Ukraine is innocent and the right side to back, the full story is not out yet because of the blizzard of propaganda. (The claim of Nazis is no worse than the Nazis in Canada. Just a few dumb people doing dumb things and one half step away from being complete thugs....if it weren't for their war they likely would be in jail...so that one troop is kept on the front lines and given minimal support by Ukraine)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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What?
How many gumball thefts does it take to get the label of thief?

I have looked at the evidence....seen the accusations....investigated the allegations....listened to the people there. I've personally met people in that area and know them personally.

And I know beyond a doubt that Ukraine is innocent and the right side to back, the full story is not out yet because of the blizzard of propaganda. (The claim of Nazis is no worse than the Nazis in Canada. Just a few dumb people doing dumb things and one half step away from being complete thugs....if it weren't for their war they likely would be in jail...so that one troop is kept on the front lines and given minimal support by Ukraine)
except ukraine has a nazi division in their army.

the azov battalion.

a bit different than a few skinheads running around.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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What?
How many gumball thefts does it take to get the label of thief?

I have looked at the evidence....seen the accusations....investigated the allegations....listened to the people there. I've personally met people in that area and know them personally.

And I know beyond a doubt that Ukraine is innocent and the right side to back, the full story is not out yet because of the blizzard of propaganda. (The claim of Nazis is no worse than the Nazis in Canada. Just a few dumb people doing dumb things and one half step away from being complete thugs....if it weren't for their war they likely would be in jail...so that one troop is kept on the front lines and given minimal support by Ukraine)
Says the man who still believes the Russians blew up their own pipeline, even after Grandpa said he did it.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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You should read them VERY carefully.

And Watch the latest video I posted....you ARE being used and played.
Very carefully huh?

Well lets not play anymore childish games. Tell us clearly: did the US and allies blow up NS? If not them who did the deed?
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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Very carefully huh?

Well lets not play anymore childish games. Tell us clearly: did the US and allies blow up NS? If not them who did the deed?
I seriously doubt that the US planned, organized, and that American soldiers performed the destruction of the pipeline.....

However....that does not mean that a US submarine or other military boat was not in the area and that this vessel didn't sit and watch the thing happen by a friendly nation or group hired to do the deed possibly providing a ride after the fact.
They certainly didn't interfere with anyone doing it.

USA intelligence and special forces groups are an odd mix of incredibly brilliant and incredibly dumb things all at the same time. And an American military vessel in the neighborhood while this was happening is not out of character whatsoever...they regularly patrol that patch of ocean and many more because the Russians and Chinese and others are often there and we keep tabs on everything going on in the ocean.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I seriously doubt that the US planned, organized, and that American soldiers performed the destruction of the pipeline.....

However....that does not mean that a US submarine or other military boat was not in the area and that this vessel didn't sit and watch the thing happen by a friendly nation or group hired to do the deed possibly providing a ride after the fact.
They certainly didn't interfere with anyone doing it.

USA intelligence and special forces groups are an odd mix of incredibly brilliant and incredibly dumb things all at the same time. And an American military vessel in the neighborhood while this was happening is not out of character whatsoever...they regularly patrol that patch of ocean and many more because the Russians and Chinese and others are often there and we keep tabs on everything going on in the ocean.
Right. The US in conjunction with allies blew up the pipelines. All done with informed consent by the offending parties. Roger that.

"They are majority owned (51 per cent) by Russia, along with German, Dutch and French stakeholders."

Now the question is: why? A rhetorical question, the answer being obvious.