hi Ken.
i'm really edified and encouraged when we have dialogue.
thanks for your sincerity. it is love.
i receive it.
kath
a little wider-ranging response if i may...just kinda musing over the whole thing.
I can add more about US responisbility in exaggerating the crisis. Secret documents became public when I was taking history in college. Revealed that the US deliberately pulled back patrols at Pearl Harbor to encourage Japanese attack, and make it more destructive. This was done to encourage the outrage of Americans, thus making the war possible in the first place. And you are quite right, America has much to answer for in God's scheme. But I don't think America can be tied to Hitler's decision to capture and kill Jews, and that is the specific topic of the thread.
well, this is never about whole populations plotting and whatnot.
always the same group of power-trippers.
so, no...america herself (the 300 million or whatever the ww2 pop was) of course can not be tied to hitler.
but some who lived in america
have been tied directly to him.
IBM and the bushes, to name a few.
some powerful bankers.
this is old news.
they fund both sides Ken.
always have.
megalomaniacs thinking globally, long term. i mean very long term.
they think they own the world.
that's nothing new.
so it ought not to surprise us if money trails and other things pop up in our own backyards.
suggesting hitler was some anomaly in human history is ludicrous.
he didn't even write his own books for crying out loud.
a pathetic loser who yelled alot.
no...other forces more powerful that that little man ran that operation.
same as N Korea. those dynasties don't stay in power unless they are allowed to.
....
in any case, Theodor Herzl, a very likable and reasonable man, himself discussed zionism long before hitler or any of that stuff showed up...as you know, he proposed that jews needed to have their own state because they were themselves a nation (regardless of where they lived), even writing himself that this would constitute a "final solution of the Jewish question".
so, this meme goes back way before ww2.
why we keep accepting that hitler was the originator of "the final solution" is beyond me.
the final solution was
never at any time an extermination policy.
it was a mutual agreement pretty much early on of separation because both sides said they were distinct and couldn't and shouldn't coexist. the "solution" agreed on with the rise of national socialism was deportation.
it actually very early on was simply emmigration. leaving.
as always happens with this kind of idea is some people don't want to leave.
the majority of the citizenry (on both sides) starts off wondering
why must we have all this upheaval.
so, out comes the propaganda and false flags and you name it.
everybody ought to know this by now...it's just simple history.
anyways...
i'm totally fine with all of that...the idea that people have the freedom to decide for themselves to live separately or assimilate - whatever their choices are.
i'm totally on board with people deciding they (for whatever reasons) desire to maintain their cultural or any other distinctions. maintaining foundational cultures and familial ties is a good thing, i think.
when it becomes a terrible thing is when it means
"the other" is lesser than. which almost without exception is what happens. man is fallen.
both ayran national socialists
and jews felt
precisely the same way about each other.
now there will be screeching over such a statement, but everyone knows this is the truth.
just after hitler came to power the zionist federation of germany proposed this to the new german govt:
"Zionism believes that the rebirth of the national life of a people, which is now occurring in Germany through the emphasis on its Christian and national character, must also come about in the Jewish national group. For the Jewish people, too, national origin, religion, common destiny and a sense of its uniqueness must be of decisive importance in the shaping of its existence. This means that the egotistical individualism of the liberal era must be overcome and replaced with a sense of community and collective responsibility ...
We believe it is precisely the new Germany that can, through bold resoluteness in the handling of the Jewish question, take a decisive step toward overcoming a problem which, in truth, will have to be dealt with by most European peoples ...
Our acknowledgment of Jewish nationality provides for a clear and sincere relationship to the German people and its national and racial realities. Precisely because we do not wish to falsify these fundamentals, because we, too, are against mixed marriage and are for maintaining the purity of the Jewish group and reject any trespasses in the cultural domain, we -- having been brought up in the German language and German culture -- can show an interest in the works and values of German culture with admiration and internal sympathy"
they were developing what is known as
The Transfer Agreement.
the Haavara, in Hebrew. they signed off on it in 1933.
this thing was happening at the same time as "Judea" had "declared war on germany"! - boycotts and divestments.
anyways...i leave it anyone who cares to look for themselves at those details.
....
but what happens
everytime you get this nationalism and supremacy going? it's always at the expense of someone else
some crackpot theory of how wonderful we are and how great the old days were and how we have to band together as one.
turning to outlandish stories of being the descendants of the gods ad nauseum.
i don't know how it happens...it just does. patriotism, chosen-ness of some variety weaponized i suppose.
fallen man. that's the only explanation.
we see around us even today, once the thing has legs, if anyone dares to suggest things are a little skewed and maybe we ought to slow this down, folks....in comes the silencing of dissent.
there's the biggest culprit of all. the shutting down of open discourse.
reason is dispensed with, and people adapt (survival i guess) - look at how the miserable North Korean powers have destroyed the people in every way. if they didn't cry convincingly enough when the great leader died they were shot.
you know?
hypnosis and group-think...terror.
propaganda is the most insidious invention ever.
i just deplore it. the only way to battle something you know is destructive is to understand how it works.
it may not make one immune to it completely, but there's some defense there.
critical thinking is just gone, Ken. it seems like.
.....
called away.
will be back later.
thanks again for the discussion Ken.
you're consistently sincere and genuine.
it matters.
forgive typos and rambling...out of time