Oneness

Chesed · Apr 29, 2013

One of the people who is teaching this class has been to Bible school and has studied the history of the church and the Bible in Hebrew context as far as I know. Its been told to me that when Jesus was baptized and the dove descended on Him, God said from heaven this is my "son" in whom I'm well pleased...they say in the original context that word son meant manifestation and pointed out Jesus was in a crowd of Jewish people who lived by the scripture "Here oh Israel the Lord our God is One Lord". Also about Jesus ascending to the right hand of God was explained to me that the right hand just means power, which does make sense to me because Jesus said all power was given to Him. If you use the word impossible when talking about what God can and cant do i don't consider that accurate God is God He can do whatever He wants.

Tintin you don't have to stay or read this forum post anymore if you don't want to, just ignore the rest of the post if it bothers you.
I'm not trying to cause disagreement here I'm just searching out the truth, that's all.

crossnote · Apr 29, 2013

I'll take the easy part, there are things impossible for God. It is impossible for God to lie or sin or deny Himself. I believe by definition it is also impossible for Him to draw a square circle.

ladylynn · Apr 29, 2013

Hi Chesed, The Bible says that we are made in God's image. Gen. 1:26 "Let us (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness..." Ps.104:30 "When You send fourth Your Spirit and give them breath, they are created, and You replenish the face of the ground."
Hebrews 1:2 11:3 Amplified Bible is my preferred study versions but also read the KJV NIV NAS and others. I collect different translations and versions. it helps to get these different translations for study and understanding.
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom" KJV God calls His Son "God"

There are so many verses about Jesus being God 1John 5:20 John 20:28 Thomas said my Lord and my God. John 5:18 equal with God... About how Jesus rose in His own power, how the Spirit raised Him, etc... interchanging of the 3 persons doing the same thing at the same time.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto you a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting FAther, The Prince of peace." KJV

I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

I'm comforted knowing that we don't have to "understand" everything in order to believe what God tells us. Faith is trusting Him without understanding. Then as we trust Him, He gives us more as we read His Word and pray. God even helps our unbelief. He comforts us with a peace the Bible says "passes all understanding". Keep seeking Chesed!! It is a journey we are all on until we leave this earth and begin another part of knowing Him. The Bible has many things we can know and be assured about so we can keep learning and are able to give an answer for the hope that is in us.

These verses are only a very few. There are many more.

Chesed · Apr 29, 2013

I sense sarcasm....God doesn't lie because He doesn't want to, and I'm sure if he wanted to create a square circle He could.

GreenNnice · Apr 29, 2013

This is a good verse, you mentioned word 'manifest' in a post a few up there:

"And without doubt great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

God manifest Himself into flesh. God went from Spirit too, which speaks of three beings being one, as your opening post wonders to you. Read Luke 1 and you will see where God sent His Spirit to Earth, into Mary. There is just so much overwhelming evidence of God, Jesus, Holy Spirit one , even though it's not so understandable. Important to remember, the Holy Spirit reveals ALL truth to us, per, think it's 1 Cor. 2, or maybe, chap. 3., and, that will include your understanding of 1 Tim. 3:16 where God reveals Him self in the flesh

Tintin · Apr 29, 2013

I don't believe Crossnote was being sarcastic. God can't lie because he's the very definition of Truth, it goes against his nature. If he created a square circle, it would no longer be a circle but a square. God breaks his own laws of nature sometimes, these are called miracles, but that's another matter altogether.

Chesed said:

Cobus · Apr 29, 2013

Deut 6:4...Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Mark 12:29... And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Gal 3:20.... Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
1 Tim 2:4...For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Eph 4:6... One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 8:6.... But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Mark 12:32... And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mal 2:10...Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

If you all ask very nicely I will share a revelation that makes this so easy to understand.... HRE IS A HINT>>>>Look at yourselves and you will understand how GOD IS EVEN ONE TODAY.... God said... LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE IN OUR LIKENESS.... LOOK AT YOURSELVES... whom of you are three in one? Are you three in one or ONE!!!

Tintin · Apr 29, 2013

Cobus, we are 1 with 3 parts that make up the one: body, soul and spirit. 3 in 1, not 3.

Chesed · Apr 29, 2013

Tintin said:

Well anyone who knows God knows that he doesn't lie, clearly He defines truth because He made the law. And He cant sin because sin is against Him, unbelievers even know that. When He made the law He could have decided to do things different, anyway you look at its Gods way, He chose it. This is beside the point it has nothing to do with my original post.

livingepistle · Apr 29, 2013

Chesed said:

These are my favorite scriptures concerning the Godhead, Oneness, and Trinity:

John 14:1-30 King James Version (KJV)

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Even the Apostles had similar questions concerning Jesus and the Father’s relationship. The focus is what Jesus said concerning himself and his Father. He knew the Father better than any human and left an explanation of who he is in the scriptures above. As Jews, the only way they would believe that Jesus was God come in the flesh was by his works, which referred to the OT prophecies concerning the coming Messiah. Not one Jew would ever believe that there are three Gods. This would get you stoned; “Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is One God”. John the Baptist had doubts, Jesus’ reply to John was this:
11 After Jesus finished telling these things to his twelve followers, he left there and went to the towns in Galilee to teach and preach.
2 John the Baptist was in prison, but he heard about what the Christ was doing. So John sent some of his followers to Jesus.3 They asked him, “Are you the One who is to come, or should we wait for someone else?”
4 Jesus answered them, “Go tell John what you hear and see:5 The blind can see, the crippled can walk, and people with skin diseases are healed. The deaf can hear, the dead are raised to life, and the Good News is preached to the poor.6 Those who do not stumble in their faith because of me are blessed.”
These are important scriptures to consider. If we believe by faith that Jesus is the door to eternal life and no one comes to the Father except through believing in Him, why such controversy?

The question is when and where did the doctrine of the Trinity began? Part 2

know1 · Apr 29, 2013

kardiaoangelous said:

Okay, this is hard for me to put into words, and I don't fully
understand everything how it works but I'll try to give you the jist of
how I see the trinity by giving a basic explaination to the above
scripture.
When a spirit enters into a person, it causes that person to become
like it is. If a spirit of the devil enters into a person, that person
will start to manefest the same characteristics as that spirit. The
same holds true when the Spirit of God enters a person. That person
will start to display the characteristics of Jesus. The more the person
yields to the spirit in them, the more they become like that spirit.
In the spirit world, certain spirits can subdivide, replicate, and
multiply themselves, much like a plant does with it's seeds, or like
the cells within our bodies. That seed will eventually grow and become
like the plant in which it came from. In like manner, atleast some
spirits have this same ability. The reason Jesus said that satan was
the father of the Scribes and Pharasees was because a part of the
spirit of the devil was in them, causing them to act like the devil
himself. That is basically how satan became the father of the Scribes
and Pharasees.
Understand that two spirits can merge together to become one spirit and
still be two distinctly separate entities, cohabiting and existing as
one. Doesn't the Spirit of God abide within each of our hearts, or
should I say, within our spirit person? A spirit within a spirit. Two
separate spirit beings in one spirit body.
In like manner, I believe, the Father subdivided and took a part of His
fullness within Himself and even though Jesus was always within and
part of the eternal Father, He became a separate being yet one with the
Father, along with the Holy Spirit.
We also are made with three separate spirit beings within us, and yet
we see ourselves as only one being or person. We are not. We are a
triune being just like God.
God also takes a part of our spirit and puts that part within Jesus and
a part of Jesus is put within us.
Eph_2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in
heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
How is it that we have not only been raised up with Jesus but are
currently seated together in heavenly places within Christ Jesus? How
can we be in two different places at one time?
Also, how was Saul persecuting Jesus when Jesus was seated next to the
father in heaven? How was he persecuting Jesus when it was the Church
that he was wasting?
Joh_6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have
no life in you.
And, how can we eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus if He is no
longer on earth in the flesh? This scripture alludes to taking a part
of the spirit of Jesus or His spirit subdividing, as mentioned above.

Cobus · Apr 29, 2013

Ok TINTIN has it right for the first time since I know him... He still hs to answer me on another threat or ten,,,, One question was who told David to count the Nation... God or Satan... In the thread the mystery of the bible revealed...

But this is how GOD IS ONE.... If there are ONE SPIRIT in ten thousand people, they are also ONE SOUL ... Acts 4:32... And all that flesh is ONE BODY IN GOD, or satan or whatever spirit is making them one soul....
But the opposite is also true... One flesh can have many spirits in that flesh, and that flesh is almost torn apart by these evil spirits... Remember Legio and the pigs... How strong was that man because o all the demons in him....

But God says very clearly in Eph 4... ALL GOD IS ONE SPIRIT.... ONE SOUL AND ONE BODY... Many members but one soul and body... This means, No matter what flesh God occupies by HIS SPIRIT it is ONE FATHER.... God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit. God's Soul is HOLINESS because HE IS THE ONLY HLY SPIRIT (ONE SPIRIT) And the flesh God occupied FIRST ... Was that of John the baptist, but he only prepared the way for the SON of God that was begotten from the BOSOM OF THE FATHER... Jesus Christ had no other father but God, John had Zacharias. And John received the Holy Spirit in him since birth. Jesus was conceived by the Spirit... one was still man, but the other Son of man... Son of God in man...

Ok so let us see how God is one.... God is Spirit! Spirit of God make man and are the only life in man = Jesus. Now known as Son of God, but still it is GOD IN MAN... The Spirit in the man is GOD! So still God the Spirit... And the Holy Spirit here on earth is GOD... So it is still God. God had planned Jesus to be BORN OF GOD and not man. So God made flesh )man) for HIMSELF to abide in. So Jesus was filled with the Father from the day he said.... WEEEHHHH and took His first breath... That Spirit in that Baby was God's Holy Spirit... GOD! Remember God is Spirit.....
This makes it easy... Holy Spirit = God... Jesus = God, Father = Holy Spirit = God... Wow! ONE GOD...

Now these verses makes perfect sence.... John 17:23... I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Eph 4:4 to 6... There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Tintin · Apr 29, 2013

Cobus, it's true. I often do disagree with you but that's very different to threatening you. I have never threatened you. Thanks.

crossnote · Apr 29, 2013

Chesed said:

No sarcasm, just my sick humor.

But God doesn't lie because it is against His nature, He dwells in pure light.If he created a square circle would it be a squre or a circle? Anyways I digress.

crossnote · Apr 29, 2013

Cobus said:

Ok TINTIN has it right for the first time since I know him... He still hs to answer me on another threat or ten,,,, One question was who told David to count the Nation... God or Satan... In the thread the mystery of the bible revealed...

But this is how GOD IS ONE.... If there are ONE SPIRIT in ten thousand people, they are also ONE SOUL ... Acts 4:32... And all that flesh is ONE BODY IN GOD, or satan or whatever spirit is making them one soul....
But the opposite is also true... One flesh can have many spirits in that flesh, and that flesh is almost torn apart by these evil spirits... Remember Legio and the pigs... How strong was that man because o all the demons in him....

But God says very clearly in Eph 4... ALL GOD IS ONE SPIRIT.... ONE SOUL AND ONE BODY... Many members but one soul and body... This means, No matter what flesh God occupies by HIS SPIRIT it is ONE FATHER.... God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit. God's Soul is HOLINESS because HE IS THE ONLY HLY SPIRIT (ONE SPIRIT) And the flesh God occupied FIRST ... Was that of John the baptist, but he only prepared the way for the SON of God that was begotten from the BOSOM OF THE FATHER... Jesus Christ had no other father but God, John had Zacharias. And John received the Holy Spirit in him since birth. Jesus was conceived by the Spirit... one was still man, but the other Son of man... Son of God in man...

Ok so let us see how God is one.... God is Spirit! Spirit of God make man and are the only life in man = Jesus. Now known as Son of God, but still it is GOD IN MAN... The Spirit in the man is GOD! So still God the Spirit... And the Holy Spirit here on earth is GOD... So it is still God. God had planned Jesus to be BORN OF GOD and not man. So God made flesh )man) for HIMSELF to abide in. So Jesus was filled with the Father from the day he said.... WEEEHHHH and took His first breath... That Spirit in that Baby was God's Holy Spirit... GOD! Remember God is Spirit.....
This makes it easy... Holy Spirit = God... Jesus = God, Father = Holy Spirit = God... Wow! ONE GOD...

Now these verses makes perfect sence.... John 17:23... I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Eph 4:4 to 6... There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

WAAAA???..

Bookreader · Apr 29, 2013

Crypto said:

I don't believe in oneness. It is important I get that out there before I comment further.
But the comment you made applies totally to the trinity too.
If God is one, then how can He be three. Descending upon Himself, and talking about Himself.

Makes just as much sense. So, if one is a trinitarian one has to be careful relying on common sense as an argument against other beliefs.

This thread seems to full of pots and kettles :0

Bookreader · Apr 29, 2013

Tintin said:

That's going to be tricky to avoid being as oneness is just a different way of looking at the nature of God

But yes, those types of discussion get tiresome and, more than any other type of discussion, no-one EVER changes their point of view based upon them. So they are pretty pointless considering how antagonistic people end up getting.

Oh well, at least it keeps atheists quiet a bit

kardiaoangelous · Apr 29, 2013

Very Interesting.

How do we factor into this three part man that God can destroy both the body and the soul in Gehenna? (Matthew 10:28)

And that we are told the spirit goes back to God who gave it? (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

Hungry · Apr 29, 2013

When Jesus appeared to Mary outside the tomb didn't He say He had not yet been to the Father? We are only supposed to pray to the Father, but in Jesus' name. Jesus claimed He only did what He saw the Father doing. Although Jesus is God it seems as though God the Father is first among equals.

kardiaoangelous · Apr 29, 2013

Hungry said:

Yes, that is another truly fascinating question.

How is it that Christ could be literally God come in the flesh, yet need to go to the Father (John 14:28; John 20:17)

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