True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

[homwardbound]

Re: God establishes The Believer !

There are Two things I know for sure in regards to those who deny Eternal Security, #1. They do not have God given Faith and #2. They are trusting in themselves .

Those who do believe can rest assured that God will Establish them through the Gospel. Rom 16:25

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

God is Faithful to stablish us and keep us from evil 2 Thess 3:3

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

You see that. Who SHALL stablish you and keep you from evil ! Thats a Promise !

The word stablish in the Romans verse is the greek word sterizo and means:

to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
to strengthen, make firm
to render constant, confirm, one's mind

God is of the Power, the Ability to make us Believers constant, stable, to render stable in one's Mind.

Lets look a little deeper at the word sterizo it is made up of two words one of which is histēmi and it literally means this:


to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

to make firm, fix establish

1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place

I am emphasizing the word cause, they are being caused to be constant and firm in the Faith.

This is actually a Covenant Blessing, Remember Ezk 36:26-27

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And yes, the same word stablish as in Rom 16:25 is that of 2 Thess 3:3

And the Promise is God is Faithful who shall stablish you AND keep us from evil. Thats keeping evil from us and us from evil..

There is no way in the world that one with God given Faith can ever read these words and worry about loosing their Salvation, or departing from the Faith of the Truth. Its simply impossible to do, and may God be Praised for it..Praise is due His Faithfulness not ours.. Perseverance is from the Lord..

God put that well through you and yes praise be to God, I see this as well communication improved thanks and 100% in agreement

 

[svedbygrace]

I responded in post # 217 already did you not see that?

You did not rehearse the points made. Anyone can just respond without addressing the points made !

 

[svedbygrace]

Re: God establishes The Believer !

God put that well through you and yes praise be to God, I see this as well communication improved thanks and 100% in agreement

What do you see my points being in post 226 ? Please break them down so we can further discuss them !

 

[homwardbound]

can't just take your verses without my verses also. can't pick and choose.

Who is Faithful God or us, no matter which way we slice, dice or cube God is we are not and so we usually only seethe first verse used to thwart us from trust and start our own works program trying to please god and others never seeing who is the one doing the works, which is God not us. so lets clarify this once for allif we canby scripture
[h=3]Philippians 2:11-13[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
If only we would just beleive and enter into his rest then God wluld be able to dowhat he said he will do, but because weallhave free willif we chose to work out our own salvation we block the finished work of God at the cross and do not enter into his rest as God ahs pointed out in Hebrews 3 and 4 because of unbleif they never entered his rest. But I tell, Abraham did, Noah, did, Jacob did, Joseph did, Paul who was Saul did all by first and foremost beleif it is so simple that it has become very difficult because man has added his own works and stumbled over the stumbling stone
Just food for thought take it or leave it

 

[homwardbound]

Faith without works is dead. We don't get saved and live like the devil. If that was the case I'd be boozing it up right now smoking a stogie. my post is 224 is evidence of the loss of salvation. And I agree with post 225 that says: There is only ONE thing that can separate you from God:
YOU.

You continue on Sister soon you might come to the end of the energy of your own flesh and see this amazing salvation so well that you won't ever be stressed out ever and do at least 100 times the amount you do now, except with a joy that never fades like the drink of water that Christ said if you drink of his water, you will never thirst again and willexclaim as Paul did
Romans 8:39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
Romans 5:5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Ephesians 3:19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
[h=3]Romans 8:37-39[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]37 [/SUP]No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, [SUP]39 [/SUP]neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[homwardbound]

wow. Do you talk to everyone like this?

GOD is faithful, we aint.

so then why not put your trust in him that he will carry on the work he began in you cur out the middle man self just a thought

 

[homwardbound]

You did not rehearse the points made. Anyone can just respond without addressing the points made !

Look there is no need to as I see it I see we agree about God's love to all mankind, now if there is something specific that you want to discuss paste it right here exactly what that is that you don't see that I see?

 

[homwardbound]

Re: God establishes The Believer !

you asked so here we go then, posting in red

There are Two things I know for sure in regards to those who deny Eternal Security, #1. They do not have God given Faith and, maybe they do and God is working it out waiting for them tocome to the end of the energy of their own works as I have and it seems you have as well Halleluah forthis #2. They are trusting in themselves . Yes and I did this for years riding the fence going back and forth from god's Spirit being in God and then forgetting and trying to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling not seeing a those times that when I was in the Spirit of God is where God just wanted me to stay, and has taught me to stay there day by day, and if I ever walk back in the flesh it is not I that do it but sin that is condemned to my flesh that does, for I as Paul said serve God with the hidden man of my heart and serve the law of sin and death with my flesh. Now in seeing this seperation I am in beleif by Christ at the death of christ I am dead also to sin, Romans 6:11 [h=3]Romans 6:11[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord
Those who do believe can rest assured that God will Establish them through the Gospel. Rom 16:25

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,



God is Faithful to stablish us and keep us from evil 2 Thess 3:3

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil

You see that. Who SHALL stablish you and keep you from evil ! Thats a Promise !

The word stablish in the Romans verse is the greek word sterizo and means:

to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
to strengthen, make firm
to render constant, confirm, one's mind

God is of the Power, the Ability to make us Believers constant, stable, to render stable in one's Mind.

Lets look a little deeper at the word sterizo it is made up of two words one of which is histēmi and it literally means this:


to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

to make firm, fix establish

1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place

I am emphasizing the word cause, they are being caused to be constant and firm in the Faith.

This is actually a Covenant Blessing, Remember Ezk 36:26-27

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And yes, the same word stablish as in Rom 16:25 is that of 2 Thess 3:3

And the Promise is God is Faithful who shall stablish you AND keep us from evil. Thats keeping evil from us and us from evil..

There is no way in the world that one with God given Faith can ever read these words and worry about loosing their Salvation, or departing from the Faith of the Truth. Its simply impossible to do, and may God be Praised for it..Praise is due His Faithfulness not ours.. Perseverance is from the Lord..

And all the rest above I agree with

 

[homwardbound]

Re: God establishes The Believer !

What do you see my points being in post 226 ? Please break them down so we can further discuss them !

I agreed and that is final I do not know or care anymore to know why you are putting my Faith under scrutiny, I love you yet you do make it difficult trying to stress a poing of view anyone ever tell you that you are like a toothless gog nagging at the heels of everyone and not loving them as God loves,
I ahve answered and forsome reason you just seem tojust skate around anything I have amswered, I am not your God nor are you mine, please stop, we heve irreconcilable differances apparently. And I am not redjoicing over this at all and rightfully so, and am thankfulthat we both are loved by God no matter what. Syanara my Brother in Christ Go now at Christ speed fo I am

 

[svedbygrace]

homw

I agreed and that is final

Thats what you said, however you evade explaining what it is you are exactly agreeing with ! Why is that ?

 

[svedbygrace]

Re: God establishes The Believer !

you asked so here we go then, posting in red



And all the rest above I agree with

I dont see it. You say you agree, but thats only in word, you have not demonstated that you understand what I have said ! Why agree with something you cannot explain it is you are agreeing with ?

 

[ChurchAuthority]

tell me why would I after seeing God's love ever walk away or anyone that really sees this? Or why would one that sees this amazing gift of life ever walk away.
God promised me that God will never walk away from me, never forsake me. And no weapon formed against me shall ever prosper, and no one, Noone includes me that believes can ever snatch me out of his hand
I was drowning in a river and a boat came along full of religous Zealots and they threw to me while I was drowning a book on how to swim, was I saved?
Then another boat came along and one of the people jumped in the water and tried to show me by their example how to swim, was I saved?
Then another on through in a vest that Icould grab onto and get over to the boat and be put on the boat, amI now saved, sure looks that way doesn't it.
Then after getting on the boat I cuss and ask for a ciggarrette, they throw me back overboard, not yet saved am I?
Then another boat comes along and picks me up out of the water takes me to share inspite of me cussinig and wanting a smoke delivers me safely to shore, now I am saved and in appreciation. This is what is truth what Christ did for all just not all believe this and are and have added to this fact by a somesort of works program bringing stress back into a miraculous Salvation that makes one work for it and if one does not go by the others terms, sect, denomination then that one is thrown back inthe water to drown.
Is this right? God is Love and by his Love is what teaches me and all men to say no to unrighteousness
Obedience is a result of Faith and by and through Faith Romans 1:17
Romans 1:17

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith


Titus 2:1-15

King James Version (KJV)

2 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

I see that you're living under the fallacy of OSAS.
The verses I presented show CLEARLY that you can lose your salvation.

The Greek word used for "knowledge" in Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 is not simple gnosis (knowledge). The word used here is "Epignosis", which means a full, experiential knowledge. These verses are speaking to TRUE believers who lost their way - not people who were simply exposed to Christ.

 

[jinx]

your all acting as if I dont trust in GOD and that is NOT the case! But I do know what the scriptures say and it says that a person call fall away from GOD and not receive that salvation.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

your all acting as if I dont trust in GOD and that is NOT the case! But I do know what the scriptures say and it says that a person call fall away from GOD and not receive that salvation.

Amen.
Just because nobody can pluck us out of His hand doesn't mean we can't jump out - the the Scriptures are painfully clear about that. It's all about free will.

 

[svedbygrace]

church

doesn't mean we can't jump out

What scripture says a Believer can jump out of Christ's Hand ? Thats like saying a Sheep can jump out out of the protection of the Shepherd, if that were the case, the Shepherd is at fault, for He is 100% responsible for the care of the Sheep !

 

[ChurchAuthority]

church

What scripture says a Believer can jump out of Christ's Hand ? Thats like saying a Sheep can jump out out of the protection of the Shepherd, if that were the case, the Shepherd is at fault, for He is 100% responsible for the care of the Sheep !

Now you're performing Scriptural acrobatics. I gave the following list of verses that totally refute OSAS. Can you refute them?

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ can fall back into darkness and lose their salvation by their own doing.

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

Matthew 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Self-explanatory.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about those already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God take away somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? He is talking about those already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

[/QUOTE]

 

[ChosenbyHim]

church



What scripture says a Believer can jump out of Christ's Hand ? Thats like saying a Sheep can jump out out of the protection of the Shepherd, if that were the case, the Shepherd is at fault, for He is 100% responsible for the care of the Sheep !

Great question! I have never seen any Scriptures that say that a sheep can jump out of the sheperds' hand. In fact, I did not know that sheep could jump.

 

[peterT]

Great question! I have never seen any Scriptures that say that a sheep can jump out of the sheperds' hand. In fact, I did not know that sheep could jump.

Have you never seen a jumping sheep?

[video=youtube;al744UyInoY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al744UyInoY[/video]

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Now you're performing Scriptural acrobatics. I gave the following list of verses that totally refute OSAS. Can you refute them?

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ can fall back into darkness and lose their salvation by their own doing.

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

Matthew 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Self-explanatory.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about those already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.[/
COLOR]

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God take away somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? He is talking about those already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Hello there church, the Hebrews 10 passage is talking about a Jew in the time of Jacob's trouble who takes the mark of the beast after they had received the love of the truth. You see there is no eternal security in the time of Jacob's trouble. Only the 144,000 Jews from the twelve tribes of the children of Israel. (See Revelation 7).

Also, the passage in 2 Peter 2:20-22 is talking about false prophets who knew of the truth, they knew of the way of salvation. But they never git saved. You have to read the whole passage to get the full context. Those two passages therefore do not prove that a Christian can lose his salvation. Today in the Church Age, Christians are sealed by the Holy Ghost (Eph. 1:13 & 4:30) Plus we are members of Christ's Body (1 Cor. 12:27) And we are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh ( Eph. 5:30).

 

[jinx]

So, according to OSAS I can live like the devil and die a saint?