Should Christians eat pork?

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Abiding

Guest
A jewish friend from Oregon converted to Christianity
after eating bacon.:cool:
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Galatians 2:12 "For before that certain came from James, he [Peter] did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision."

Why did he withdraw from eating with them when those of the circumcision arrived? Because Peter had been eating pork or other foods not considered by that Old Law Covenant as clean.

Let me explain to you that Peter's error here was an innocently made error. For when Peter was at home in Jerusalem that would have been the necessary thing for loves sake not to stumble the Jews yet under that Law around him. Paul understood that.

Paul merely made Peter to realize that he was not having to worry so much about stumbling Jews there in Galatia, but stumbling Gentiles.

Peter clearly ate all foods even as Paul. And just as Paul, he used his freedom in Christ to become as "under the law to those under the law" that he might save some. And as that was what Peter was mostly used to doing he had not much experience with the "all things to all men" or the "as without law to those without law" part.

1 Corinthians 9:19 "For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."

Peter clearly ate all food and gave God thanks for it as did Paul.
 
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C

Christabel

Guest
I think it is so phenomenally strange that the Christian world is so split up on all these different issues, and every single person seems bound and determined that THEIR doctrines are right and the other guy's are wrong! This Christian religion is all over the place. Depends on which denomination you belong to what you believe. And they all call the other fowl. Terribly depressing. Makes one lose one's faith.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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I think it is so phenomenally strange that the Christian world is so split up on all these different issues, and every single person seems bound and determined that THEIR doctrines are right and the other guy's are wrong! This Christian religion is all over the place. Depends on which denomination you belong to what you believe. And they all call the other fowl. Terribly depressing. Makes one lose one's faith.
Look at what I posted in #102.

Is that or is that not based solely on what the Bible tells us?

That is the problem. Not everyone sees all that is there to be seen.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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I think it is so phenomenally strange that the Christian world is so split up on all these different issues, and every single person seems bound and determined that THEIR doctrines are right and the other guy's are wrong! This Christian religion is all over the place. Depends on which denomination you belong to what you believe. And they all call the other fowl. Terribly depressing. Makes one lose one's faith.
You need to stop using legalists to do your dirty work of finding a reason to separate from God.
None of us said anything about the other being condemned. Reread, and see that the ideal was in your own mind.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
This is a topic that I personally have wavered back and forth on for years. This is where I currently sit with the issue and I would appreciate your thoughts.

There are four different scripture passages in the new testament that persons will use to try to substantiate their belief that the unclean animals mentioned in Lev 11 were only unclean for a period of time and today we can eat anything we want.

The first would be Mark 7:18-19
"So He said to them, 'Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods."

Now on the surface, without considering any context, it sounds like Jesus is saying that all the unclean animals mentioned in God's instruction book are okay because they will not defile a man, but is this really what He is saying in context? To just read a verse or two without looking at context is the fastest way to erroneous doctrine and belief, so let's start back at the beginning of the chapter to see what Jesus is actually talking about.
Mark 7:2 - "Now when they (Pharisees) saw some of His disciples eat bread with DEFILED, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault." -
Elders taught - if you eat bread without a washing ceremony you were defiled. This is a practice which was not, nor never was a part of God's dietary instruction, but rather a rule that they made up themselves.

:3 - "For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the traditions of the elders."
The issue Jesus is addressing here is a tradition of man (elders) and NOT God, and therefore in context is not talking about God's dietary law at all, but rather man's traditions.

:4 - "When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they ghave received and hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches."
Here we learn that there are many traditions of MAN that these people established and believed that they would defile a man. Again, this is nothing to do with God's dietary laws, but here we clearly see, Jesus is pointing out their own traditions, not God's.

:5 - "Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, 'Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?"
Again we have confirmation that this set of scriptures is talking about traditions of man (elders) and NOT the law of God.

:6 - 8- "He answered and said unto them - 'Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men - the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such thing you do."
Here Jesus is laying into them because they are holding their own traditions above God's. Once again, we see that Jesus is referencing and attacking the traditions of the ELDERS - NOT God's dietary laws!!! Notice how Jesus mentions that they are 'laying aside the commandment of God' - He's actually upholding God's law here!!!

:9 - "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your traditions."
Again and again, Jesus is making reference to these people holding their own traditions above God's law thereby rejecting God's law. Jesus Christ is making a grand distinction between the law of God and the commandments of men - the two were contrary to one another and Jesus is attacking their traditions which they held in higher regard to God's law. He is in no way attacking the law of God here, if anything He is upholding it.

:10 - 13 - Here we have an example of how they have held their own tradition above God's law.

So in this passage of scripture Jesus is teaching that a bit of dirt on your hands that then ends up in your stomach is not what defiles a man. He's explaining that real defilement is what comes out of a man's heart. And what was the 'heart issue' that Jesus was attacking them with... Thinking that their traditions were superior to God's commandments.

At no time in this passage of scriptures is God's dietary laws mentioned. In context this is talking about eating food with unwashed hands which had nothing to do with God's dietary laws. Part II soon.
Yes, more than one place in the New Covenant Scripture is testament of this truth. When Peter, in Acts, was afraid to eat the unclean meat, the Lord Himself told him it was alright. What God says goes? All power that goes through us is from Him and we are to power our lives through listening to His speaking ways and wisdom and help into our life as we move toward His way for us, His plans for us. :)
 
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The spiritual person reads the following verse different than the fleshly carnal-minded person:

Revelation 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols."

A fleshly person has no idea what that really means and so can only obey it by the letter of what there seems to them to be stated. And so they think they are pleasing God because they literally won't eat a certain meat that they know is used as a sacrifice to idols.

But Paul showed us what that means in various places of his writings. Hebrews 12:16 "Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright."

Esau there ate meat sacrificed to idols. It does not matter the kind of meat that it was. It was to whom the eating of that meat was dedicated to that makes it wrong, and not the kind of meat.

Ponder: 1 Corinthians 8:8 "But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse."

Romans 14:6 "He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks."

Look at the examples of how we eat meat sacrificed to idles (regardless of the kind of meat that it is):

Romans 14:15 "But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died."

Romans 14:20 "For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence."

1 Corinthians 8:13 "Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend."

How is that, Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.."

It is that if we are doing these things in front of someone that they might stumble then we have been judged by that person's stumbling over our lack of love.
 
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But the spiritual aspect of Revelation 2:20 goes even further than that of sacrificing a brother by our lack of love in the literal foods we eat in front of him or by where we choose to allow ourselves to be seen when eating without regard to his conscience being stumbled by us.

The meat sacrificed to idols of places Revelation 2:20 really compares to, Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

When we eat of worldly wisdom and let ourselves go the way of that worldly wisdom, that is what Revelation 2:20 is more specifically referring to.
 
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Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
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Galatians 2:12 "For before that certain came from James, he [Peter] did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision."

Why did he withdraw from eating with them when those of the circumcision arrived? Because Peter had been eating pork or other foods not considered by that Old Law Covenant as clean.

Let me explain to you that Peter's error here was an innocently made error. For when Peter was at home in Jerusalem that would have been the necessary thing for loves sake not to stumble the Jews yet under that Law around him. Paul understood that.

Paul merely made Peter to realize that he was not having to worry so much about stumbling Jews there in Galatia, but stumbling Gentiles.

Peter clearly ate all foods even as Paul. And just as Paul, he used his freedom in Christ to become as "under the law to those under the law" that he might save some. And as that was what Peter was mostly used to doing he had not much experience with the "all things to all men" or the "as without law to those without law" part.

1 Corinthians 9:19 "For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."

Peter clearly ate all food and gave God thanks for it as did Paul.
I eat with the guys I work with doesn't mean I am eating unclean meat
 
Mar 15, 2013
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I eat with the guys I work with doesn't mean I am eating unclean meat
Resistant, aren't you.

If Peter and those Gentiles had not been eating foods the Law forbade then he would have had no need to seperate from them as he himself was the one God used to declare the Gentiles clean.
 
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Let me put all together for others who might also think that it does not show that Peter was indeed eating that which the Law considered unclean:

If Peter and those Gentiles had not been eating foods the Law forbade then he would have had no need to separate from them as he himself was the one God used to declare the Gentiles clean.

Galatians 2:12 "For before that certain came from James, he [Peter] did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision."

Why did he withdraw from eating with them when those of the circumcision arrived? Because Peter had been eating pork or other foods not considered by that Old Law Covenant as clean. If Peter and those Gentiles had not been eating foods the Law forbade then he would have had no need to separate from them as he himself was the one God used to declare the Gentiles clean.

Let me explain to you that Peter's error here was an innocently made error. For when Peter was at home in Jerusalem that would have been the necessary thing for loves sake not to stumble the Jews yet under that Law around him. Paul understood that.

Paul merely made Peter to realize that he was not having to worry so much about stumbling Jews there in Galatia, but stumbling Gentiles.

Peter clearly ate all foods even as Paul. And just as Paul, he used his freedom in Christ to become as "under the law to those under the law" that he might save some. And as that was what Peter was mostly used to doing he had not much experience with the "all things to all men" or the "as without law to those without law" part.

1 Corinthians 9:19 "For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."

Peter clearly ate all food and gave God thanks for it as did Paul.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Peace be with you, i am an unworthy servant just doing my duty. In CHRIST's love and respect for HIS lambs, sheeps and the goats (HIS hope they would turn back), either you are 'babes' in CHRIST or 'ever learning but never come into the knowledge of the truth'. Those who make fun of such person who are poor or weak in the Holy Scriptures, stands the judgement of the LORD. Do you want to build or to tear down on what GOD has started? 'If anyone who causes GOD's little ones (new believers) to sin, it is better for a rock to be tied to that person's neck and thrown into the ocean.' 'Do not test the LORD thy GOD to provoke HIM to chastise. An unwise way to learn obedience that shouldn't be taken lightly as children.'
This is to the person who is zeal in the Holy Scriptures and zeal in right standing with GOD, to only GOD be the Glory always. Amen. If you are a believer of the New Covenant who believe eating pork is unclean in order to honor the LORD, go ahead, no one can stop you, for this is for you and it is between you and the LORD also because as it is written in New; 'Anything you do against your believe, it is a sin.' Because of GOD's love, i will have to respect your honor towards the LORD. i will then have to restrain my appetite freedom from you and for you.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
Christians don't need to eat anything but God's Word. Personally, I love meat and I don't feel convicted by the Holy Spirit when I eat it. Even seafood, pork and bacon are valid options for me.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Peace be with you, as it is written in the New; 'You cannot put new wine into an old wine bag skin for it will only swell and burst and there would be a great spill......................'
Thus says the LORD; 'Those who want to practice the Old, the Law of Moses and the Prophets, even to the least important ones, make sure you practice them all. Fail even to the least, you fail all and under curse.'
'I did not come to do away with the Law and the Prophets. Not even a dot or comma shall be removed from them until they are fulfilled and also give it's full meanings by ME the MESSIAH.' 'On the Cross MY last Words were "It is accomplished (finished)" is for all, who are weak, not to live again in the yoke of slavery of sin that comes from the perfect Law of letters of sin and death.'
'I have given the Law of the SPIRIT, I AM the New Covenant builder that Moses spoke about in the Old whom is to come, for the Words that comes out my mouth are spirit and life.' 'Abide in them you will sure live.'
To GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST is All Honor, All Praise and All Glory forever and ever, Amen.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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Well I speak for experience, God met my needs and provides me regulary with cheap food, quite often God has provided me with whole leg joints of Pork for 50p. Right time right place, time and time again, I find myself going to places and not really knowing why I am going, I just had the thought to go, when get there, well its bargain time, shopping with Holy SPirit, superb. So if we were not ment to eat pork why is God allowing me to purchase pork for next to nothing and providing my family with food, just as he promised He would?
 
J

jinx

Guest
loves meat, all meat. bbq pulled pork is awesome. big fat pork steak smothered in bbq for 2 hours in the oven at 350 ..... good stuff.
 
B

bleekerT

Guest
The Lord Judges

... They do what the worship leader tells them to do. They eat the meat of pigs and rats. They also eat other things I hate. All of those people will come to a horrible end,” announces the Lord.

- Isaiah 66:17, New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Re: The Lord Judges

... They do what the worship leader tells them to do. They eat the meat of pigs and rats. They also eat other things I hate. All of those people will come to a horrible end,” announces the Lord. - Isaiah 66:17, New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Here is an example of what I have been saying. That the promoters of ignoring New Covenant scripture in favor of the Old Covenant ways are working hard to rebuild that wall of enmity which Christ sacrificed his life to tear down. They refuse to get what the spiritual application of such verses are really telling us about not eating the wisdom of a world whose ways are all as sacrifices to false god's.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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Re: The Lord Judges

We may eat all things, the bible says so. The bible talks a lot about rituals we use in our worship. They can be used to pretend to worship, and they can be used to help us toward righteousness.

We are told, for instance, about using bread and wine, about the communion service. This can be done to represent Christ and what He did for us, and it can be done to our damnation.

God taught the Hebrews through rituals, and one was to not eat scavenger animals to teach about cleanliness. People used this is the wrong way at times, just read what Christ said about the Pharasee who made a show of fasting to impress men.

Paul didn’t praise men who needed ritual to achieve what God wanted the ritual to teach. I have gotten as much information as I could gather about people who used some of these rituals to help with their worship and those who say they don’t need them at all. When they are used as God intended when he instructed us to use them, they do help people live for God.

We have rituals in the church that God never suggests we use at all, like Christmas. Yet we use that ritual, and everyone approves. When Christ came in the flesh, Christ taught it was the spirit the counted, but Christ never taught that we must not use rituals to help us live with love for the Lord and all He stand for in our hearts. The bible teaches that if we need pork for our food, that love and care for us comes first. But it never teaches against using only clean foods is wrong, when it helps us live with cleanliness spiritually.

Most of the people in our churches today don’t act or lookany different from those who don’t profess the Lord in their lives. There isn’t, for instance, much difference inthe divorce rate. I think we can use allthe help we can get to give our lives to the Lord.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Well I speak for experience, God met my needs and provides me regulary with cheap food, quite often God has provided me with whole leg joints of Pork for 50p. Right time right place, time and time again, I find myself going to places and not really knowing why I am going, I just had the thought to go, when get there, well its bargain time, shopping with Holy SPirit, superb. So if we were not ment to eat pork why is God allowing me to purchase pork for next to nothing and providing my family with food, just as he promised He would?
Because the instruction to not eat scavender animals is meant for man, man isn't meant to live to not eat scavenger animals. God wants you to live abundantly, and to be clean in thought, word, and deed. If you need to eat pork to achieve that, then God cleans all food. But if keeping away from any animal who eats unclean food helps you achieve that, then that is what God wants for you.