5 Atheist Questions Christans Can't Answer

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Grey

Guest
yeap it is written that way
Now though what does GOD choose? Is evil been created for us to see free choice and choose yes I think so, because all that was left after the cross was nad is to either believe and Choose God over Evil or not beleive and just continue in one's sinful behavior of hurting others as the religous leaders did in Christ's day here on earth HMMM!!!!!!!!!!
God does no evil, man does and God came to earth to show us to depend on God christ's Father and sent us the Holy Ghost to guide us as what guided Christ and this comes by belief, trust, Faith in the Gospel of Christ filled and all powerful in and of the cross, nowhere else or no way else. It is what it is, and by this one is changed to new life and is content in all that happens here as Paul exclaimed nothing can seperate him frpom the Love of God, nothing, and this I do believe is for all to exclaim by Christ living in oyu and through you
Romans 3:1-27

New King James Version (NKJV)

God’s Judgment Defended

3 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) [SUP]6 [/SUP]Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? [SUP]8 [/SUP]And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
All Have Sinned

[SUP]9 [/SUP]What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Destruction and misery are in their ways;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the way of peace they have not known.”
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God’s Righteousness Through Faith

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [SUP]26 [/SUP]to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Boasting Excluded

[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith
Well Im sure we could get into a whole debate on how its evil to create evil itself but I just think we'd spin our wheels. However I would define Yahwehs you rape it you buy it levitical law pretty evil.
 
Jan 23, 2011
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Well it's important to understand the context of those laws. Leviticus and the other books of the Pentateuch were written after the Babylonian exile, after Persia had just freed the captive Judeans from the Babylonians. In Babylonian captivity, all the different peoples they conquered were mixed together, so the Jews created a huge list of laws to distinguish what is Jewish from what is non-Jewish based on a concept of "purity." That's why there's Levitical laws about not being able to wear two different types of fabrics, and other ridiculous things, as well as some more controversial things in the modern day. You had to keep things "pure." Thats why the rape law is there too; women at the time were only supposed to have sex with their husband, so to remain pure they had to marry the rapist. Yes, from our modern perspective its a VERY morally objectionable law, but to them it made complete sense.

So when the Judeans returned from exile, the priests were put in charge, and to solidify their power had the history and moral laws of the people written. This is when the Pentateuch and Chronicles were written. If it seems weird that Chronicles tells basically the same story as Samuel and Kings, it's because it is, just written from the priests perspective emphasizing what they thought was more important :p

I should probably also say that I"m not pulling this information out of nowhere; I've taken several biblical scholarship and theology classes at my university. It doesn't mean by far I'm an expert though :p And I say nothing on the theological and spiritual accuracy of the text, that's an individual thing.
 
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Grey

Guest
Well it's important to understand the context of those laws. Leviticus and the other books of the Pentateuch were written after the Babylonian exile, after Persia had just freed the captive Judeans from the Babylonians. In Babylonian captivity, all the different peoples they conquered were mixed together, so the Jews created a huge list of laws to distinguish what is Jewish from what is non-Jewish based on a concept of "purity." That's why there's Levitical laws about not being able to wear two different types of fabrics, and other ridiculous things, as well as some more controversial things in the modern day. You had to keep things "pure." Thats why the rape law is there too; women at the time were only supposed to have sex with their husband, so to remain pure they had to marry the rapist. Yes, from our modern perspective its a VERY morally objectionable law, but to them it made complete sense.

So when the Judeans returned from exile, the priests were put in charge, and to solidify their power had the history and moral laws of the people written. This is when the Pentateuch and Chronicles were written. If it seems weird that Chronicles tells basically the same story as Samuel and Kings, it's because it is, just written from the priests perspective emphasizing what they thought was more important :p

I should probably also say that I"m not pulling this information out of nowhere; I've taken several biblical scholarship and theology classes at my university. It doesn't mean by far I'm an expert though :p And I say nothing on the theological and spiritual accuracy of the text, that's an individual thing.
There is no just context in which the marriage of a woman should be bought and sold by a rapist to her father.
 
Jan 23, 2011
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There is no just context in which the marriage of a woman should be bought and sold by a rapist to her father.
Hey, I never said I agreed with it. It was a reprehensible behavior and it breaks my heart to see that some places in the world STILL do this. It's up there on my list of near absolute moral evils.

That being said, you shouldn't just be reactionary about it! There's a reason they made this law in the first place, and it's not because "oh, they hated women." I'm trying to tell why they made it and all those other laws so that people of all sides can properly debate it rather then it simply devolving into "well your belief system is bad because!" History is super important!

Besides, virtually all Christians don't hold the Levitical laws to be applicable in the modern world (except the homosexual one for some people). It's probably better to debate other things.
 
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Grey

Guest
Hey, I never said I agreed with it. It was a reprehensible behavior and it breaks my heart to see that some places in the world STILL do this. It's up there on my list of near absolute moral evils.

That being said, you shouldn't just be reactionary about it! There's a reason they made this law in the first place, and it's not because "oh, they hated women." I'm trying to tell why they made it and all those other laws so that people of all sides can properly debate it rather then it simply devolving into "well your belief system is bad because!" History is super important!

Besides, virtually all Christians don't hold the Levitical laws to be applicable in the modern world (except the homosexual one for some people). It's probably better to debate other things.
Im glad you don't agree with it, I dont agree with biblical law either. Nor child execution nor genocide.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I don't think any atheists would find the popularity of the Christian calendar as proof of the resurrection of Jesus. Nor pointing out that they don't know for certain that there isn't God in the knowledge of the universe unavailable to him. Atheists don't tend to claim to know there is no God :)
No matter what this man Jesus made such an impact on this world that the calandar is divided by his time here on earth before and after, even though man has changed it to read before common era and after.
No matter which way it is sliced, diced and or cubed Jesus is who Jesus is and God his Father sanctified this by the resurrection and all the witnesses,
Hebrews 2:3how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him
Hebrews 12:25See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?
[h=3]2 Timothy 2:25-26[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, [SUP]26 [/SUP]and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Well Im sure we could get into a whole debate on how its evil to create evil itself but I just think we'd spin our wheels. However I would define Yahwehs you rape it you buy it levitical law pretty evil.
The Law was put inplace to show us our evilness and need for a Savior which is Christ Jesus
 
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Grey

Guest
The Law was put inplace to show us our evilness and need for a Savior which is Christ Jesus
Under no circumstance in the past if I was an israelite or present would I or any other sane individual compel a rapist to marry the one he raped. Its passively evil in my eyes if you do.
 
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megaman125

Guest
Under no circumstance in the past if I was an israelite or present would I or any other sane individual compel a rapist to marry the one he raped. Its passively evil in my eyes if you do.
Believe it or not, people used to value virginity when looking for a marriage partner. It was valued so much that women would often commit suicide if they were had sex or were raped, because their chances of finding a husband and bearing him children would have been slim to none back in those days. Bearing children was also highly valued and saught-after. Also, she wasn't forced to marry her rapist. The man who violated her was forced to pay, but the father could (and often did) not allow the rapist to marry his daughter.

Here, if you want to educate yourself: Does Deuteronomy 22:28-29 command a rape victim to marry her rapist?
 
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Grey

Guest
Believe it or not, people used to value virginity when looking for a marriage partner. It was valued so much that women would often commit suicide if they were had sex or were raped, because their chances of finding a husband and bearing him children would have been slim to none back in those days. Bearing children was also highly valued and saught-after. Also, she wasn't forced to marry her rapist. The man who violated her was forced to pay, but the father could (and often did) not allow the rapist to marry his daughter.

Here, if you want to educate yourself: Does Deuteronomy 22:28-29 command a rape victim to marry her rapist?
The website misquoted the "father has the final say passage". There is also no subtext to suggest that the woman has any say in it.

I'm well aware virginity was essentially what gave women value in old testament Israel so they could be sold off into marriage.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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368
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Under no circumstance in the past if I was an israelite or present would I or any other sane individual compel a rapist to marry the one he raped. Its passively evil in my eyes if you do.
I did not live back then, I live here and now, I see the Law filled by LOVE that GOD poured out on to all the Human Race, past is gone and these things today are not in place. But Law of the Land is in place so we all can function together well such as Stop lights, and no speeding, for the sake of others, which is what the Love of God is all about, having compassion as you may have, yet sound mad about the past of what was then. Just my two cents
So lets love one another okay.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,157
368
83
Believe it or not, people used to value virginity when looking for a marriage partner. It was valued so much that women would often commit suicide if they were had sex or were raped, because their chances of finding a husband and bearing him children would have been slim to none back in those days. Bearing children was also highly valued and saught-after. Also, she wasn't forced to marry her rapist. The man who violated her was forced to pay, but the father could (and often did) not allow the rapist to marry his daughter.

Here, if you want to educate yourself: Does Deuteronomy 22:28-29 command a rape victim to marry her rapist?
Thank you, man is the one who corrrupted himself an dGod is the one who has had Mercy from the get go, and has always tried to help, just we don't listen and ask why or have compassion for another, usually only those that have it for us, thanks for pointing this out
 
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Grey

Guest
I did not live back then, I live here and now, I see the Law filled by LOVE that GOD poured out on to all the Human Race, past is gone and these things today are not in place. But Law of the Land is in place so we all can function together well such as Stop lights, and no speeding, for the sake of others, which is what the Love of God is all about, having compassion as you may have, yet sound mad about the past of what was then. Just my two cents
So lets love one another okay.
Well thats all dandy and all, but I don't see love in rapists marrying their victims and paying 50 or so sheckles to their father. You're saying well hey the law is great now can't we all just love each other and sort of forget that messed up past. It reminds me a tad of the current and past catholic church.

Throwing all evidence of existing or not I will never worship a being that did something like that, in addition to commanding genocide.
 
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hattiebod

Guest
Well thats all dandy and all, but I don't see love in rapists marrying their victims and paying 50 or so sheckles to their father. You're saying well hey the law is great now can't we all just love each other and sort of forget that messed up past. It reminds me a tad of the current and past catholic church.

Throwing all evidence of existing or not I will never worship a being that did something like that, in addition to commanding genocide.
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return void, but shall accomplish that which I please. And it shall prosper in the thing where I sent it. Isaiah 55:11.

I think it is wonderful to see those here in CC who deny God....why? Because they were called here. They are hearing the call of God and when here, they are reading the word of God. We are able to pray for them :) That's enough. You may not believe now, you may say never...but you are just men, just woman. He is your creator and He has a plan for you. You will never understand the ways of God, you will never understand His word until you accept Christ as the sinner you are. Then you will have Gods revelation, and you will see. So welcome to CC! And God Bless you as you seek the Truth, the Truth that will set you free. <><
 
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livingepistle

Guest
God will have Mercy on whom God will have Mercy, and when God does have or has shown one this Nercy via the cross then God reveals truth to those that will not abuse it, and keeps it from those that will and do
What a great and marvelous salvation by the cross and tell me how weill any of us escape
Hebrews 2:3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
2 Timothy 3:8Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."

I am amazed to see the scriptures being fulfilled before my eyes. 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


Within and beyond the CC, in religious social circles I take notice to the increase in philosophical interpretations concerning God and the question of God's existence. I have discovered that within the CC, Christian does not have the same meaning to everyone. The Bible states that you will know them by the fruits they bare...these "few" that claim to be Christians never refer to scriptures when addressing non-Christians. The non-Christians, always state their positions from texts that are "holy" to them.

I appreciate your candid approach and the use of the "Word" as your basis for commenting. While you and I do not agree on everything; only a few concepts, :) I commend you for standing on the principles of the Word. :D

Keep the Faith and pray for me as I pray for you
:cool:
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,157
368
83
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."

I am amazed to see the scriptures being fulfilled before my eyes. 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


Within and beyond the CC, in religious social circles I take notice to the increase in philosophical interpretations concerning God and the question of God's existence. I have discovered that within the CC, Christian does not have the same meaning to everyone. The Bible states that you will know them by the fruits they bare...these "few" that claim to be Christians never refer to scriptures when addressing non-Christians. The non-Christians, always state their positions from texts that are "holy" to them.

I appreciate your candid approach and the use of the "Word" as your basis for commenting. While you and I do not agree on everything; only a few concepts, :) I commend you for standing on the principles of the Word. :D

Keep the Faith and pray for me as I pray for you
:cool:
Thank you an yes on the prayer? Let us both discern as God wants us to see truth and so shall we grow as we trust in God to get us all that believe to stand
 
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livingepistle

Guest
Justice means that there will be punishment for the offenders correct? People tend to get caught up in this lovey dovey, fantastical image of God that Christianity has mutilated pretty well.

God is a Judge, meaning God will convict when its time. People have convinced themselves that " love " means " no rules," in this over - liberated society. True freedom comes with true boundary; no one is free in anarchy, and spiritual anarchy has made us slaves to sin.

To sum up this question - God is not bad for punishing people; and so far God's been absolutely correct in doing so. What I don't get, is if we understand this, then why do people keep pushing God's buttons? Just let God be God; the only reason God is doing any of these actions, is ultimately for our benefit anyway.

[/FONT][/COLOR]
The more I re-read this thread the more I appreciate it. I do not understand every aspect of the CC chat culture but if it is okay will you give your opinion concerning my question: "Do you believe that God is only concerning himself with those that will believe; especially, the closer it gets to His return"?

I appreciate this thread and thank you for submitting it--I voted an excellent rating on this thread.
:)
 
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Grey

Guest
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return void, but shall accomplish that which I please. And it shall prosper in the thing where I sent it. Isaiah 55:11.

I think it is wonderful to see those here in CC who deny God....why? Because they were called here. They are hearing the call of God and when here, they are reading the word of God. We are able to pray for them :) That's enough. You may not believe now, you may say never...but you are just men, just woman. He is your creator and He has a plan for you. You will never understand the ways of God, you will never understand His word until you accept Christ as the sinner you are. Then you will have Gods revelation, and you will see. So welcome to CC! And God Bless you as you seek the Truth, the Truth that will set you free. <><
I'm not denying god by all means, I'm denying Yahweh as much as I am denying unicorns and faries.
I didn't come to this site as an agnostic atheist in 2009, I spent most of my life as a Christian. I became an agnostic atheist when I sought to rationalize me belief to give it evidence only to find none. And if your god did exist he'd be a tyrant, if Yahweh spoke to you right now and said KILL your neighbor as I commanded the Israelites to kill the Cannanites would you do it?