Is baptism Essential for salvation?

justamazed · May 15, 2013

Again to be baptized into Christ is to be baptized into His death. What that means is ALL men who have died are IN CHRIST as all men are drawn.

jody50 · May 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

You say "IF you thik water baptism will save you" Well God says in I Peter 3:21 " For baptism does now SAVE you, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God".

In Acts 2:38 it says, "Repent and be BAPTIZED everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS"

If you look in the book of Acts everyone converted to Christ was BAPTIZED. 2 Timothy 3:16 it says "All scripture is God breathed and is profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training..." So these scriptures that say BAPTISM is necessary are God breathed. He said it.

jody50 · May 15, 2013

matt7777777 said:

This was before Christ even died on the cross. The church had not been established, they were still under the old law. After Christ died the church was established and in Acts 2 Peter preached the first sermon recorded and told the people in Acts 2:38 to "Repent and be baptized FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS" In 1 Peter 3:21 It says "For now BAPTISM does now also SAVE us"
You'll see in the book of Acts everyoe converted was baptized.

1still_waters · May 15, 2013

If there are not extenuating circumstances such as you're hanging on a cross and can't get to some water before you die, I believe the verses below are important to consider.

Acts 2:38
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; a

Acts 22:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

1 Peter 3:21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Galatians 3
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Romans 6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Col 2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[SUP][c][/SUP] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, [SUP]12 [/SUP]buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

matt7777777 · May 15, 2013

Jody let me refer you to acts 10:44-48.. while peter yet spake these words the holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word and they of circumcision which belived were astonished as many af came with peter because that on the gentiles also was poured out the gift of the holy Ghost for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answerd can any man forbid water that these should not he baptised which have recived the holy Ghost as well as we and he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days........ so yes there where baptised buut it wasnt untill after they recived the holy Ghost which is the baptism of fire an salvation... so this clearly puts an end to an argument that says you have to be baptised before swlvation unless you wanna say the bible is liei g..

Porthos · May 15, 2013

Baptize and repent, from Greek language, means something like 'submerge and mind change'. Or, in modern terms; 'Undergo a change of mind'. Water baptism is just a symbol that belongs to some denominations and some teachings. A symbol of a person's change of heart.

I suspect, at the time of Jesus, that people were very social and outward about their proximity to God. The Jewish law was based on the Ten Commandments and many of the inhabitants of cities that Jesus lived in or visited would have been openly Jewish. So open, grand symbols of faith were accepted and condoned and even promoted.

But to answer your question; no. Baptism isn't required for anything, at least not the water kind.

Porthos · May 15, 2013

Baptiso - Dip, submerge, be under.

Kai - even, also, specifically/namely

Metanoeosaté - change the mind. (used as repent, which means 'change your mind', but often misconstrued as 'be sorry' or 'beg for forgiveness' or something like to that effect).

Be under a change, namely of mind. Present

Undergo a change of mind. Future

secularhermit · May 15, 2013

The Bible acknowledge!

But I can say I know "someone" who went to mormons, to those churches who say "Jesus only Jesus" and also baptized under Baptist Church... Last's saturday I went with him to a Synagogue (...) And, in my opinion, everything is in God's choice. Whatever He says is enough for me (and I am reading on some Jewish doctrines, and my mind says: "Salvation is up to God's")

I love John the baptist telling the people: Repent and be converted. We need Jesus and the Holy Spirit SEAL.

Porthos · May 15, 2013

There is also 'repent of your sins', which really means 'change your mind about your animal nature'. It's like saying 'have morals'. That's what the bible is about isn't it? Living a moral life for God?

It sounds so light and simple. Yet we here constructions and conditions and pathways to getting your own salvation every day. Not one person will be in the new world by their own doing; only by God's forgiveness.

It really is that simple. BUt everyone wants it to be complicated these days.

'YOu do not enter into the authority of God yourselves, nor do you allow any others to enter!'

4enlightment · May 15, 2013

When someone truly want to change their life around, they'll follow some certain pattern to show that they have change their whole lifestyle; that is some sort of baptism, but it doesn't means that they have repented from their ways. But God see effort when a person wants to be perfect so He will watch how far that person will go to be cleanse and then He will come in and show the person the true baptism. God here our heart.

Bookreader · May 15, 2013

matt7777777 said:

Not sure - just saying, in the Bible all who are reported as having "come to Christ" are reported as being baptised.

After that it's up to people to determine whether it's important or not.
The thousands the Bible talks about were all baptised.

TomH · May 15, 2013

christian85 said:

I felt to need to post this because i see a lot of confusion on this topic. I think a lot of people are confused because there is a lot of false doctrine out there today. I have had someone ask me how can every domination out there be right and if people are teaching different things about salvation how can everyone be right?

The answer to me is very simple according to the bible not everyone out there is right only the people who do the fathers will, will be saved.

Matthew 7:21-27
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Also, the bible says that scripture is of no private interpretation so according to the scriptures it is not OK for people to be teaching different doctrines.

2 Peter 20:21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The bible always stresses oneness and unity and you cannot have this with denominations and people teaching different doctrines

Ephesians 4:4-6

[SUP]4 [/SUP]There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

This is the prayer the night before Jesus died and Jesus is praying for oneness and unity but yet a lot of the world believes it is OK do and teach whatever you like as long as you believe in Jesus. Is this what the scriptures say on the subject?

John 17:20-23

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Now on to the main question is baptism essential for salvation?

The whole book of Luke 24 needs to read to fully understand this:

24 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And they remembered his words,
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And he took it, and did eat before them.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And ye are witnesses of these things.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
[SUP]52 [/SUP]And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
[SUP]53 [/SUP]And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Please keep the highlighted portion of the scripture in mind as I go on. This was the story after Jesus being raised from the dead the apostles were told in verse 47 of luke 24 that that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Please keep in mind that there are no christians walking the earth until this occurs in luke 24 verse 47

What is being talking about occurs in Acts 2 on the day of pentecost

2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Notice that every one is dwelling in Jerusalem just as taught in luke 24 verse 47

Then if you go down to starting in Acts 2 verse 38 you will see that remission of sins is being taught:

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as theLord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

1 Corinthians 12:13 says:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galations 3:27 says:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

So according to scripture one must repent and be baptized to be saved.

"if ever you should be avowing with your mouth the declaration that Jesus is Lord, and should be believing in your heart that God rouses Him from among the dead, you shall be saved" (Romans 10:9)

jody50 · May 15, 2013

matt7777777 said:

Context is everything. Cornelius and his household were Gentiles. God had to convince Peter to go in the first place. It is noted that Jewish brethren were there with Peter and if Peter had just baptized them into Christ the jews there would have accoused him of doing something against God. So after they receive the Holy Spirit Peter ask the jews there, "Can anyone forbid water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?" See Acts 11 where Peter has to explain his doing this. As to Holy Spirit baptism, a different topic indeed, it is never commanded for forgiveness of sins nor said to put us into a relationship with Christ. Baptism of the Holy Spirit was a promise not a command and was only promised to certain ones. It gave the apostles all the "signs of an apostle". They were guided into "all the truth."
Was the Holy Spirit wrong in Acts 2:38, when speaking through Peter, He told beleivers to "repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." This is according to what Jesus commissioned the apostles to do before ascending to heaven (Mtt. 28:18-20; Mk. 16:15-16; Lk. 24:47). All through the book of Acts people were commanded to be baptized. Eph. 4:4-6, Paul, by inspiration, states that there is "one baptism" that units us all in the one body. In Gal. 3:26-27 we find that "they who were baptized into Christ and have put on Christ". How can one be saved without being in Christ? Eph. 1:3, every spiritual blessing is in Christ. So are there any spiritual blessings outside of Christ? If Cornelius was "in Christ" before he was baptized in water then we have a contradiction when we look at all the New Testament has to say on the subject. Jesus commissioned it, the apostles and New Testament teachers taught it and so I have no problem with baptism being a part of the remission of sins. Jesus said belief and baptism equals salvation, who am I to argue with Jesus. I am going to teach what Jesus said to teach.

christian85 · May 15, 2013

matt7777777 said:

The passage you are talking about is here
And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:10-12 and also in Luke 3:16-17).

Baptism by fire has to do with the wicked this is not something a christian will receive. People keep taking verses out of context. Please read this explanation below:

From the full statement we see that fire here deals with the separation of the just from the wicked and the eternal punishment of the wicked. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is for the just, but the baptism in fire is for the wicked. Basically John is stating that he, as a prophet of God, was given authority to convert people. But Jesus would be greater than he because Jesus has the authority to both convert people and to destroy the unconverted. "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28).

christian85 · May 15, 2013

Porthos said:

Belief, Repentance and water baptism are all required for salvation. Belief alone does nothing even the devils tremble and believe.

A perfect example is Saul. Now if the all Saul need to do was believe then Jesus would have said that. Be he said go and it will be told what to do. Then Immediately he was baptized.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

christian85 · May 15, 2013

TomH said:

Please read all of what is written below:

One of the most fundamental principles of Bible interpretation is that which is known as “the analogy of faith.” In his classic work on biblical hermeneutics, Professor Milton Terry noted that there is:

“[a] general harmony of fundamental doctrine which pervades the entire Scriptures. It assumes that the Bible is a self-interpreting book, and what is obscure in one passage may be illuminated by another. No single statement or obscure passage of one book can be allowed to set aside a doctrine which is clearly established by many passages” (449).
Though expressed in a rather formalized way, the statement above actually merely reflects the explicit testimony of the Scriptures, and of logic itself.

First, the inspired psalmist proclaimed: “The sum of your [God’s] word is truth?” (Psalm 119:160). The term “sum” (Heb. — rosh) in this context suggests a functional system which encompasses the entirety of a thing (Muller, 1192).
Second, since God is a perfect Being who is the author of neither confusion nor contradiction (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:33), and inasmuch as the Scriptures were issued from him, logic demands that the instruction contained therein will be harmonious.
What, then, are we to make of the matter when we confront the issue of dealing with the theme of salvation, but note different conditions mentioned in various texts? The answer does not lie in rejecting some passages and accepting others. Rather, one must seek for a harmonious solution.

There is a common mode of expression in the Bible known as the synecdoche. It is a figure of speech by which a part of something can stand for the whole, or vice versa.

For example, Paul was on a ship that housed 276 “souls.” These were not bodiless “souls”; rather, the term “soul” stands for the entire person (see Acts 27:37). How does one arrive at this conclusion? Because other passages teach that human beings have bodies as well as souls (Matthew 10:28).

With this interpretative principle in view, let us direct our attention to verse you sited (Romans 10:9-10). Two conditions are mentioned within the passage — believing in the resurrected Christ, and confessing that conviction before others.
But where is “repentance” — that godly sorrow that is accompanied by a change of conduct (2 Corinthians 7:10)? Surely that requirement cannot be dismissed merely because it is not mentioned here. Repentance is made obligatory in a host of supplementary New Testament passages.

Jesus declared that one who is void of repentance will perish (Luke 13:3,5). Repentance was a part of that Commission given by the Lord (Luke 24:47), and proclaimed by an inspired apostle on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). This sorrowful, changing obligation is required of all people everywhere, in view of the coming Judgment (Acts 17:30-31).
Since Paul did not contradict himself between Acts 17:30-31 and Romans 10:9-10, it must be the case that “believe” and “confession” in the latter text embrace the whole of God’s redemptive conditions.

Similarly, though only “repentance” is mentioned as the condition by which the first Gentiles were converted (Acts 11:18), the principle of “the analogy of the Scriptures” demands that the “believing” and “confessing” of Romans 10:9-10 be included in the divine plan of salvation as well.

Now if this can be seen with reference to the conditions just mentioned, why is it so difficult to comprehend that baptism must also be included in the sacred scheme of redemption? Especially is this so since baptism is inseparably connected with salvation in so many New Testament passages (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Romans 6:3-4; Galatians 3:26-27; Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3:21).

Surely a completely unbiased view of the subject can lead only to the conclusion that immersion in water is an essential component in God’s plan of salvation for humankind. This truth was not denied until the Christian movement was well into those stages of digression that eventually developed in the post-apostolic age.

kardiaoangelous · May 16, 2013

Porthos said:

Yes, there at the church's beginning the disciples yet had to grow and to learn more. They did tend at moments to take things in a fleshly mind. We are given examples such as Peter having to receive counsel by Paul and Paul having a clash with Barnabas.

Be that as it may be, it was not Philip that suggested literal water baptism, but the eunuch who was a babe to Christ. Acts 8:36 "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"

Philip lovingly complied with the eunuch's request, but first Philip made sure of the following in accord with what Paul says about respecting peoples' consciences, Acts 8:37 "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Romans 14:22-23 "Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

1 Corinthians 10:31-33 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."

Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way."

Notice what Jesus told Peter: John 13:10a "Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit ..." Why? Because we walk after the spirit of God's word and that word when we walk by it is what makes us clean. And we use Christ as our model to help us know how to do that. 1 Peter 2:21

While we are stuck at the beginning before the holy spirit taught them further to maturity, we are ignoring what was pointed out after they had matured about there being only one baptism which saves as described in detail in the entire Ephesians chapter 4.

Water is a symbol of God's word which gives life. You have read that in Jesus' words and elsewhere in the New Testament. And Jesus was the living, breathing, walking, superlative example to us of the life-giving word of God. Ephesians 5:26 "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word ..."; Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration [of the water by the word as we see at Eph. 5:26], and renewing of the Holy Spirit [the Holy Spirit acting to help that word grow in us so that we understand it and can extract life from it]; John 4:14 "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."; John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Submersing one in water is a mere way to explain to a new one to faith in Christ what they must do with regard to the word of God. They must completely submerse themselves in the word of God because if they do not, then the life in the word of God cannot save them. But Ephesians chapter 4 is the fuller description of doing what 1 Peter 3:21 says gives us that good conscience before God. And that is because Jesus was the living embodiment of God's words in action imparting life.

Not that these failed to enter into that Ark: 1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

And now notice that we must enter the Word of God, Jesus Christ by the words in him is our Ark of Salvation: 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism [into Christ] doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.."

We have two opposites there that there is no doubt what that baptism meant. It means fully submersing ourselves in the word of God which is completely taught us in Jesus. That enables us to have a good conscience because we know that Jesus pleased the Father in all things, and so if we stay submersed into doing God's will in Jesus, living by every word out of the Father's mouth as did Jesus, then we know we have nothing of which to be ashamed before God. Thus it is that good conscience which saves us because we have that good conscience by walking as Christ walked and living fully submersed in the Father's word of life as he did.

kardiaoangelous · May 16, 2013

I have been such a die hard fanatic of the study of the Bible for so much of my life that I have at one time or another viewed things just as so many of the variations we find. I now know that what I said in post #37 is the true and whole picture.

Just like so many others, I at one time was tripped up in believing that being submersed into the water symbolized our dying with Christ. And so the rising up out of the water I saw to be rising to live and walk with Christ. But actually that describes John's baptism and not our baptism into Jesus.

Acts 18:25 "This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John."

Acts 19:1 "And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

Now we read on to see that John's baptism is not the baptism which saves us: Note it is (1 Peter 3:21b) "... (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh ...)..." which saves us, and that is what John's baptism was about.

Reading on in Acts:

Acts 19:5-6 "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

Romans 6 gives many the idea that baptism by submersion in water means that dying with Christ and that the rising up out of the water means rising to walk the new life in Christ. But that is what the cross means to us, and not the water. That water is the word and if we stay submerged in that life-giving word as does Christ always, then we will receive the help of the Holy Spirit to grasp understanding of that word that we may walk in Christ's footsteps. And it is doing that which gives us that clean conscience by which we know we are in Christ our Ark and being saved by his life.

Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

Then we can know in our heart that, Romans 6:8 "Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.." now and forever.

homwardbound · May 16, 2013

jody50 said:

yet now Sister when Peter preached to Cornelous and family those there being Gentile they recieved the Holy Ghost before any water Baptism, they spoke oin tongues and had gifts of. So since they had recieved the Holy Ghost already how does or did water Baptism have any further effect except this i waht Peter believed needed to be done being brought up under Law
[h=3]Acts 10:36-48[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]36 [/SUP]The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

[SUP]37 [/SUP]That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
[SUP]38 [/SUP]How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

homwardbound · May 16, 2013

1still_waters said:

If there are not extenuating circumstances such as you're hanging on a cross and can't get to some water before you die, I believe the verses below are important to consider.

Acts 2:38
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; a

Acts 22:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

1 Peter 3:21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Galatians 3
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Romans 6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Col 2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[SUP][c][/SUP] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, [SUP]12 [/SUP]buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

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