Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[kardiaoangelous]

It is been a good lesson in a number of ways:

(1) Do not follow after men.

(2) Always keep a loose grip on what you believe at least until you are intimately familiar with all that the Bible says about it.

And (3) nothing is a loss if we be but humble and do not get alarmed, always trusting that God will help us to see lest we be closed minded.

 

[notuptome]

ok I understand your point, but I don't ever see in the bible where it says "you can be baptized for an outward showing of your faith." or "you dont have to be baptized"

everywhere I look it is a must. Even JESUS said we had to do it....

Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Your exegesis here needs some refinement. Those who receive the teaching of Christ are certainly entitled to enter into believers baptism but it is not making water baptism essential to salvation.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I think I now be able to see even more than I have seen. And that feels like a win.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Your exegesis here needs some refinement. Those who receive the teaching of Christ are certainly entitled to enter into believers baptism but it is not making water baptism essential to salvation.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

I was wrong.

I am convinced this is pertaining to the Gentile keeper of the prison and his household and it is clearly baptism in water.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Thank you all for helping me fight my way through that.

I did learn much other details of great value through it however and hope others did also.

And I do agree that God is not going to condemn us for failure to do the fleshly symbolism but evidently water baptism was practiced even toward the Gentiles.

I yet feel we need to know and see that God's love would not condemn us on the basis of a mere symbolic act. After all, he freely forgave tons of symbolic acts under that Old Law Covenant.

 

[jinx]

Your exegesis here needs some refinement. Those who receive the teaching of Christ are certainly entitled to enter into believers baptism but it is not making water baptism essential to salvation.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

acts 2:38... it is a commandment!!!

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Pertaining to the Gentile keeper of the prison and his household and it is clearly baptism in water, Acts 16:30-34 proved to be what it took to untangle me. I went back through every post in this thread and it was never mentioned. Remember that one for it is the clincher in support that water baptism is required of all.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Then again, maybe water baptism is a test to us on the level of whether or not our spirit be too haughty to comply with such simple things?

I suppose that would make it like a symptom of a deeper spiritual problem and therefore could cost us God's grace.

 

[zone]

I yet feel we need to know and see that God's love would not condemn us on the basis of a mere symbolic act. After all, he freely forgave tons of symbolic acts under that Old Law Covenant.

can i see the passages that say it is a symbolic act please?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

can i see the passages that say it is a symbolic act please?

Sure, just look them up in your Bible.

It does not take a genius to know that a mere common thing which is done in everyday life, when used with special meaning toward our Christian walk is but a demonstration of a greater reality. Symbolic Act = Demonstration of a greater reality.

 

[zone]

Sure, just look them up in your Bible.

It does not take a genius to know that a mere common thing which is done in everyday life, when used with special meaning toward our Christian walk is but a demonstration of a greater reality. Symbolic Act = Demonstration of a greater reality.

kardiaoangelous, there are NO passages which say baptism is a symbolic act.

for a guy who spiritualizes everything else, who do you ridicule baptism?

Colossians 2:12
For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.

do you think maybe God takes baptism very seriously?
a little more than the "crawling into water" ignrint folks like me take seriously?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

kardiaoangelous, there are NO passages which say baptism is a symbolic act.

for a guy who spiritualizes everything else, who do you ridicule baptism?

Colossians 2:12
For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.

do you think maybe God takes baptism very seriously?
a little more than the "crawling into water" ignrint folks like me take seriously?

I am sorry if that comment offended you zone. I meant it in a joking manner after a comment I read earlier that spoke of something similar. Of course they had given the analogy of being lured to the water as bate for crocodiles.

I don't care how you view that zone. I feel I know God at the very least as well as you and I believe that even as that criminal who died alongside Christ needed no water baptism it was his express faith in God and the Christ as the Ark of salvation which saved him.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I should add that I do agree that water baptism ought to not be side-stepped when it is at all possible to be done.

But the reality is that Christ's body is the Ark which saves and baptism but a kind of doorway into that body which is passed through as briefly as a door frame and most certainly does not constitute all of the steps needed to be taken to get through that doorway.

 

[HollyLoree]

I should add that I do agree that water baptism ought to not be side-stepped when it is at all possible to be done.

But the reality is that Christ's body is the Ark which saves and baptism but a kind of doorway into that body which is passed through as briefly as a door frame and most certainly does not constitute all of the steps needed to be taken to get through that doorway.

Actually, baptism is just a symbol of our dying and being reborn in Christ. That's it. But that's why we do it--as in--actually are baptized in water. It's a symbol to the world that we have died and been reborn in Christ.

 

[Cobus]

Kardi, I know MANY people baptized with water, and NONEof them has the NEW LIFE... In fact the old man that entered the water is stillVERY ALIVE in them all....

But I look at Samaria in Acts 8 and I see how God ...CALLED them... How Godsanctified them... and how God GLORIFIED them...

So I would put the ... DIED WITH CHRIST...... BURIED WITH CHRIST.... As how thepeople of the city BELIEVED this... Butwhen they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God,and the name of Jesus Christ
The moment a person believes Jesus is real, that is themoment they start dying off the old man lead by the Spirit of God. But that oldman has TO BE BURIED WITH CHRIST... Nobody buries a live man, but a dead man...And the WHOLE city believed the Gospel, and died off the old... They LEFT SIMONAND HIS FALSE TEACHINGS, AND THEY WERE EVEN BAPTIZED IN WATER by Philip.... Notthe baptism that made them dead, it was the FAITH IN CHRIST...
Anyway, they all died their old ways and all evil spiritswere chased out (the house was cleansed for the LORD TO OCCUPY)... but now theold is dead and the NEW HAS TO COME... So the Apostles heard that SamariaACCEPTED THE TRUTH... the baptism of water is not even mentioned... but theHOLY SPIRIT DID NOT FALL ON NONE OF THEM YET,,,
And when the Spirit did fall on them... THE NEW CREATUREWAS COMPLETE... AND THE NEW LIFE WAS NOW GIVEN... But NOT SIMON THESOCERER..... Do you see the difference between Simon and the rest... Simon wasalso baptized with water... BUT HE DID NOT DIE IN THE FAITH.... He still hadONE THING LEFT OF THE OLD MAN.,... GREED AND PRIDE AND SELF POWER... Read Acts8 and see what is the BAPTISM OF THE NEW LIFE... AND HOW A PERSON DIES OFF THEOLD MAN... BY DYING TO SIN!!!!
Jesus did not baptize a single person with water.... HEDOES NOT HAVE TOO... HE BAPTIZE WITH HOLY GHOST... That is the baptism I wouldwant, if God wills!

 

[Cobus]

Off to school to watch my 10 yearold daughter play netball... bye for now.

 

[jimmydiggs]

do you think maybe God takes baptism very seriously?

This is a subject I have been thinking about quite a lot lately. To say the least, it is certainly evident that it is more significant than a bath.

 

[HollyLoree]

Are you seeking to divide and conquer by getting me to speak against Pentecostals?

You crawl into water if you want.

As for me and my household we will take refuge in the Lord. We will submerse ourselves in his Word.

Crawl into the water? That was not appropriate. That gave me the creeps, to be honest. You're equating something Christ asked us to do with that phrase I shudder to repeat? I think you need to check yourself.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Crawl into the water? That was not appropriate. That gave me the creeps, to be honest. You're equating something Christ asked us to do with that phrase I shudder to repeat? I think you need to check yourself.

Sorry it bothered you, also.

Actually, I just hastily grabbed a word to describe her going to the water and nothing more.

James 3:2 "For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body."

I would ask that by grace you let love cover over my error.

Please do not amplify it in your mind to be more than it really was.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

For the sake of all of you are so righteously offended by my statement, "You crawl into water if you want."

From the time I was a little tyke, taking a bath, my parents and all my siblings referred to it as, "Crawling into the bath-tub."

My parents would command, "Go crawl into the bath-tub."

zone ought to be able to appreciate that as my mother was a Missourian and that is Missouri lingo.

I myself spent many years living in Missouri. Much of my family yet live there in the Springfield and Lebanon area.

Please see how easy it is to make a big deal about nothing. It is worse to condemn me for such innocent lingo than it is for me to be accustomed to speaking that way. It exhibits a deliberate search to find darkness. And if we allow ourselves to see with dark eyes we will always find the darkness we look for. It won't be true, but we will not know that.

I tell you this out of love for you as it is something that even I myself need always to be conscious of to control.

I appreciate the advice when someone tells me I ought to check myself, but things are not always as they appear, and we all need to check ourselves.

Let us just be determined to love each other in honor of Christ and our heavenly Father and lay off of judging each other.

 

[homwardbound]

I'm quite certain some understand although there is a disagreement over what they understand. Water is not grace. Water is not faith. Water is not blood. Water is water. The blood of Christ is sprinkled on the altar in heaven and there it covers our sins. John 20:17 Heb 9:11-12
The faith required to receive the grace of God is received by hearing the word of God. Rom 10:17 The Holy Spirit supplies the light necessary for us to respond to the word and receive Gods grace. John 3:19-21 No man comes except the Father draw him. Those who come Christ will in no wise cast out.
If an unsaved man goes into the water an unsaved man will come back out of the water. The only thing that changes is that he gets wet and that too will soon pass. Acts 8:35-40

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Thank You Roger and yes if unsaved goes in the water yes that one comes out still unsaved yet a member of that Church and accepted by that congregation and since this, what need is there of Jesus personally, there is a great big deception from man still going on out there.
Oh and my favorite to jump from one denomination to another, I say well I have been Baptized from over there and I do believe, and I hear well yes, but no you are not saved yet, and I say well I have been to other Churches as well and been baptized there and made my confession there too, so I am saved and then I hear no not yet. Then I say what must I do next get Babtized here and make my confession here and then I will be saved. And then there is a big yes!!!!!!!!!!!! Something is wrong here in this society yes?
I believe, my Father and Brother know this, I am one in God for God by my belief made it to be this way through his son, now my Brother Christ, as well for anyone else that believes