Is baptism Essential for salvation?

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kardiaoangelous said:
That is one aspect of it, but here is another:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Explain those verses to me, zone.
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kardiaoangelous, what is it exactly you are after?
is Peter talking about baptism by fire in a good way there?

is there a mystical interpretation of that passage?
just speak plainly.

to be honest with you, i don't believe as you have indicated, that you have some great understanding of the hidden meaning of everything in scripture and are dolling it out in bite sized pieces.

if i'm wrong, and there's a big gnostic secret none of us see - just write it out in one post.

i posted THE ONLY PASSAGE which says "baptize you with fire".

John was addressing the Pharisees (and there were CLEARLY other Israelites standing around...read the passage again).

John proceeded to say wheat separated from chaff; chaff burned up; with fire.
this was not an empowerment; not something that WOULD BURN AWAY THEIR SINS....it was coming Judgment...by real literal FIRE.
 
jinx said:
what about all of the other scriptures in the bible saying it IS unnecessary? What do we do with THOSE scriptures?

Do we throw them out?

or do we use those scriptures and your scriptures and put it all together like a puzzle and take the bible as a WHOLE?
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You're simply off beam love, it is being washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus (by calling upon the Name of the Lord) that saves a sinner, NOT being washed in water!

And ofcourse we don't throw any Scripture, we simply rightly interpret the Scriptures, but then again, you being Oneness (belonging to UPCI) would insist on baptism in water being essential...but it just ain't!
 
zone said:
kardiaoangelous, what is it exactly you are after?
is Peter talking about baptism by fire in a good way there?

is there a mystical interpretation of that passage?
just speak plainly.

to be honest with you, i don't believe as you have indicated, that you have some great understanding of the hidden meaning of everything in scripture and are dolling it out in bite sized pieces.

if i'm wrong, and there's a big gnostic secret none of us see - just write it out in one post.

i posted THE ONLY PASSAGE which says "baptize you with fire".

John was addressing the Pharisees (and there were CLEARLY other Israelites standing around...read the passage again).

John proceeded to say wheat separated from chaff; chaff burned up; with fire.
this was not an empowerment; not something that WOULD BURN AWAY THEIR SINS....it was coming Judgment...by real literal FIRE.
Click to expand...

You have me.

You have me separated from yourself on the other side of this "it is me against them" wall that you have built.

You are in Christ and have no need to hear anything from the repugnant mystics and agnostics on the other side of that wall you have built.

Tear down that wall and I will answer you.
 
jb said:
You're simply off beam love, it is being washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus (by calling upon the Name of the Lord) that saves a sinner, NOT being washed in water!

And ofcourse we don't throw any Scripture, we simply rightly interpret the Scriptures, but then again, you being Oneness (belonging to UPCI) would insist on baptism in water being essential...but it just ain't!
Click to expand...

your throwing away scripture if you think we don't need to washed in the baptism of water..... "love"

pretty sure hubby only called me that until now LOL
 
kardiaoangelous said:
You have me.

You have me separated from yourself on the other side of this "it is me against them" wall that you have built.

You are in Christ and have no need to hear anything from the repugnant mystics and agnostics on the other side of that wall you have built.

Tear down that wall and I will answer you.
Click to expand...

does romans 6 in any way dicuss baptism by fire.
did john who used the phrase indicate it was a good thing.
 
jb said:
You're simply off beam love, it is being washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus (by calling upon the Name of the Lord) that saves a sinner, NOT being washed in water!

And ofcourse we don't throw any Scripture, we simply rightly interpret the Scriptures, but then again, you being Oneness (belonging to UPCI) would insist on baptism in water being essential...but it just ain't!
Click to expand...

did Jesus command preaching repentance; baptizing; and making disciples.
 
zone said:
does romans 6 in any way dicuss baptism by fire.
did john who used the phrase indicate it was a good thing.
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No, Paul speaks nothing directly about the baptism by fire there in Romans chapter 6.

Yes, John used the phrase "baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire" to mean the easy way by baptism with Holy Spirit or the hard way with baptism by fire.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
 
kardiaoangelous said:
No, Paul speaks nothing directly about the baptism by fire there in Romans chapter 6.

Yes, John used the phrase "baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire" to mean the easy way by baptism with Holy Spirit or the hard way with baptism by fire.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
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do you believe ultimately all people will be saved - universal salvation.
 
jb said:
When you change your critical and judgemental attitude and stop being so down right rude in replying to posts, then I will answer your posts again...
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LOL....really.

nah...dont worry....i'm fine.
thx anyways
 
zone said:
do you believe ultimately all people will be saved - universal salvation.
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No, I do not. What I believe is that meek ones learn easily but as for the stupid ones, Proverbs 23:14 "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from Sheol."

7585; shª'owl - from 7592; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates: KJV -- grave, hell, pit.

Indeed the world of the living dead before they meet the final resting place.
 
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zone said:
LOL....really.

nah...dont worry....i'm fine.
thx anyways
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Don't take it personally zone as this is something I think I see many of us, including myself, only now really beginning to wake up to.

We are just saying please join us and let us join you.

I would not have recognized the need in myself if I had not seen first that was wrong of others. I am yet working on that, also.

God knows I have yet to find the many ways I violate that principle of oneness in the body of Christ.
 
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kardiaoangelous said:
Don't take it personally zone as this is something I think I see many of us, including myself, only now really beginning to wake up to.

We are just saying please join us and let us join you.

I would not have recognized the need in myself if I had not seen first that was wrong of others. I am yet working on that, also.

God knows I have yet to find the many ways I violate that principle of oneness in the body of Christ.
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i'm not interested in oneness with everybody who claims some jesus.

and i'm fine with no convos with jb.

okay with you?
 
zone said:
uh....i love my neighbours.

if one says take a hike, i respect their wishes.
as for oneness with everyone who names some christ...really?
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That illustrates what I mean. You see yourself as one and assume that is not true of them.

Don't you realize that oneness of Christ's body is not something that just is by spirit, but a spirit which must be worked toward?

Don't you see all the division in the first century congregations of God and how the shepherds had to work at encouraging the congregations to work that divided spirit out of them?
 
kardiaoangelous said:
That illustrates what I mean. You see yourself as one and assume that is not true of them.

Don't you realize that oneness of Christ's body is not something that just is by spirit, but a spirit which must be worked toward?

Don't you see all the division in the first century congregations of God and how the shepherds had to work at encouraging the congregations to work that divided spirit out of them?
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my congregation is to almost all others (in their own words) - cold; dead; formalist; legalist; pharisaical..blah blah.

nothing is farther from the truth.

the first century shepherds guarded the flocks from wolves and false doctrine - as well as feeding them good food.

people are free to hold to any doctrine they want, and assemble or not assemble.
teach two baptisms if they wish; teach christ isnt king now; jews saved by merciful blinding...tongues is babbling.
you name it.

my congregation says no to all that. no.
doesnt mean we dont love people...and that mantra is plum wore out.
okay
 
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