Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[homwardbound]

nah homie. I wont. I had my little hissy fit last night so I'm good.

I just wish people would take scripture for what it is cause GOD isn't the author of confusion.

why would people believe HE would ever confuse us on water baptism is beyond me.

Jinx I am confident of this
Romans 14:4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
And am glad that we all are just putting out what we see, not condeming one another knowing God has recieved us, and just being waters and planters as Paul said
1 Corinthians 3:7So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

And I thank all here for no condemnation because this is what we all are doing are we not seeking out truth
Romans 8:1[ Free from Indwelling Sin ] There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

 

[1still_waters]

The spirit on God's word is God working to do that.

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

So if the Spirit does it, and man can't do it, that must mean the instruction to baptize in Matthew 28 meant a baptism that human hands are capable of doing, ie water baptism. I mean why would God command they do an act only God is capable of doing?

 

[zone]

The spirit on God's word is God working to do that.

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

then why don't you obey His words?

Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.17When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”



did they go therefore UPON THAT COMMISSION and baptize in His Authoritative Name (The Name the Father Gave Him) in water?

yes, they did.

the records in Authoritative Scripture say they DID.

only a Bible twister can make it say they didn't.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

This smooth talk could be used on so many things.

We're told to crucify our flesh.
But if we inserted that command into the-smooth-talk-o-matic magic over spiritualized blender, where all things in the bible magically change into something else...Crucify the flesh could be transformed into..

"Well see, Jesus's flesh was crucified. And see we're the body of Christ. So we really don't need to crucify our flesh, because Jesus's flesh has replaced ours and it's already been crucified. And after all, we are saved by grace right?"


Seriously, that's what all the leaps in reasoning and distortion are doing to scripture at this point.

Very good as it requires a living faith which works by love. Not some faith imagined due to emotion.

Galatians 5:6 "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

What is circumcision really about? Our hearts being receptive to God's word.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

So if the Spirit does it, and man can't do it, that must mean the instruction to baptize in Matthew 28 meant a baptism that human hands are capable of doing, ie water baptism. I mean why would God command they do an act only God is capable of doing?

How do you see the water flowing out of a person's belly doing the work of saving another person as being the works of that person's hands?

1 Corinthians 3:6 I [Paul] have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[zone]

How do you see the water flowing out of a person's belly doing the work of saving another person as being the works of that person's hands?

1 Corinthians 3:6 I [Paul] have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

cherry pick away.
make sure to leave out the part where they BAPTIZED people - with water.

 

[jinx]

​feels all violated now that I realize I was arguing with christian mystics.

now do they believe that their "insight" is power over the written word?

If that is true, that is egotistical and dangerous.

10 foot pole anyone?

 

[homwardbound]

I am not sure how to answer.

What does that, "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith ...", entail to you as to; Taking into consideration that Christ, "... being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.."?

(Hebrews 12:2a; Hebrews 5:9)

You call it "finished" which seems you are saying as in "already completed". Do you believe in "once saved always saved"?

Or, do you see that as only true when we have taken off all corruption and put fully on incorruptibility, realizing that being a little corrupted or a little incorruptible are just as much impossible as being a little bit pregnant?

I see it as I am finished with my works as I was so caught up in them that I was failing miserably and not excercising Faith in his finished work for me, and I guess yes in this realization of the completed work I have now rested from my works As God did from his Hebrews 3 and 4. Iam today nothing more than a vessel to be used by God and for God's furtherance of God's Gospel period.
Just like a water glass this is: A water glass is my vessel to be used by me whenever I decide to. that is exactly what this water glass was made for to hold any liquid of my choosing correct?
Now since this is true, I can never imagins a water glass, complaing and groaning over not being used as I one day decide to use this water glass, pretty ridiculous correct?
So as I have come to see and undserstand this amazing salvation from God through the cross. I have chosen to be GOD"S water glass, and rest in Faith trusting for all things to come together in God's timing not mine
Yes sin is dead in Christ and we are aliver in Christ here and now by just being the water glass example!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope you to see what is being said
Romans 6:4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord
Romans 8:10And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Romans 8:11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Ephesians 2:5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
1 Peter 1:3[ A Heavenly Inheritance ] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Revelation 1:5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

 

[homwardbound]

kardiaoangelous:
did Jesus command us to baptize people in water?

just yes or no please.

I have not found that in scripture after the death burial, and resurrection, please post scripture that says Christ himself commands us to be Babtized in water?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I see it as I am finished with my works as I was so caught up in them that I was failing miserably and not excercising Faith in his finished work for me, and I guess yes in this realization of the completed work I have now rested from my works As God did from his Hebrews 3 and 4. Iam today nothing more than a vessel to be used by God and for God's furtherance of God's Gospel period.
Just like a water glass this is: A water glass is my vessel to be used by me whenever I decide to. that is exactly what this water glass was made for to hold any liquid of my choosing correct?
Now since this is true, I can never imagins a water glass, complaing and groaning over not being used as I one day decide to use this water glass, pretty ridiculous correct?
So as I have come to see and undserstand this amazing salvation from God through the cross. I have chosen to be GOD"S water glass, and rest in Faith trusting for all things to come together in God's timing not mine
Yes sin is dead in Christ and we are aliver in Christ here and now by just being the water glass example!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope you to see what is being said
Romans 6:4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord
Romans 8:10And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Romans 8:11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Ephesians 2:5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
1 Peter 1:3[ A Heavenly Inheritance ] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Revelation 1:5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

And that is 100% correct.

That is the attitude of a truly humble man of God.

That is beautiful!!!

 

[zone]

He commanded that we go forward into all the world baptizing them into<(eis) the name of the Father by means of the life-giving water that he has given us so that it flows from out of our belly (teaching), for it is ινto God's name that the righteous run and are given protection.

He commanded that we go forward into all the world baptizing them into<(eis) the name of the Son as no man can run into the name of the Father but through the Son.

He commanded that we go forward into all the world baptizing them into<(eis) the name of the Holy Spirit because it is only in the Holy Spirit that we have passage through the Son into the protection of the Father's name.

All this by means of that life-giving water he has given us to flow out of our belly, which is teaching them to observe all that he has commanded.

Matthew 28:19 poreuqentej oun maqhteusate panta ta eqnh baptizontej autouj eij to onoma tou patroj kai tou uiou kai tou agiou pneumatoj

"for it is ινto God's name that the righteous run and are given protection."

HA?
whats all that stuff?
why are you just making it up as you go?

what protection? huh? what righteous?

what's IN A NAME?

...

it's in the Name of....the Authority of. by virtue of the Authority of.

Baptized in the Name (Authority) of God, into the Body of Christ, the Church.

baptized by the AUTHORITY and working of God the Father; God the Son and God the Holy Spirit INTO Christ's death, and raised in His resurrection.

for what?

the remission of sins.
and eternal life.

new name - CHRISTians

 

[Stephen63]

No one can use the thief on the cross as an example to begin with to dismiss baptism. NO ONE knows for sure if he was or was not,it is not recorded one way or another. To take a paragraph about the man and make a doctrine out of something we just do NOT KNOW for sure is a bad way to go. For all we know he very well could have been,but then again he may not have been. We just don't know.

Oh, I don't know. After all, that's exactly what happened in ICorinthians chapter 13. An entire belief system called Cessationism sprang up out of this little handful of verses.

 

[homwardbound]

Jesus instructs to observe ALL THINGS he's COMMANDED. And just a few words earlier he COMMANDS baptism.
So what we have from some, are people actually leading people away from doing something Jesus commanded!
They do it through leading questions, or through applying extenuating situations to those outside of the extenuating circumstance.



Matt 28
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore[SUP][c][/SUP] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.[SUP][d]


[/SUP]

Again this does not specify water babtism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is more likely Holy Ghost Babtism since John didstinctly said his water Babtism is not what Christ's Babtism is and this is after the resaurrection a new Covenant with the Babtism of the holy Ghost as what happened oin Pentecost and what actsa 1:5 states
Anywayto each their own, I will trust god to give the increase of understanding here

 

[kardiaoangelous]

"for it is ινto God's name that the righteous run and are given protection."

HA?
whats all that stuff?
why are you just making it up as you go?

what protection? huh? what righteous?

what's IN A NAME?

...

it's in the Name of....the Authority of. by virtue of the Authority of.

Baptized in the Name (Authority) of God, into the Body of Christ, the Church.

baptized by the AUTHORITY and working of God the Father; God the Son and God the Holy Spirit INTO Christ's death, and raised in His resurrection.

for what?

the remission of sins.
and eternal life.

You are wrong as it would be the Greek proposition [FONT=Theophilos Greek, sans-serif]εν[/FONT] but it is instead[FONT=Theophilos Greek, sans-serif] εις[/FONT]

 

[SarahM777]

Oh, I don't know. After all, that's exactly what happened in ICorinthians chapter 13. An entire belief system called Cessationism sprang up out of this little handful of verses.

UMM don't you mean that is the only verse that is used to support continuation.

 

[zone]

Again this does not specify water babtism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is more likely Holy Ghost Babtism since John didstinctly said his water Babtism is not what Christ's Babtism is and this is after the resaurrection a new Covenant with the Babtism of the holy Ghost as what happened oin Pentecost and what actsa 1:5 states
Anywayto each their own, I will trust god to give the increase of understanding here

really?
that's where unity comes from?
to each their own?

i don't think so.

 

[Stephen63]

UMM don't you mean that is the only verse that is used to support continuation.

UUUUUMMMMM..........no I don't, so pleeeeeeeeeeeeeze quit putting words in my mouth. I have my own, thank you very much.

 

[homwardbound]

home, you can use you search feature and find every passage that has spirit in it.

are you 100% CERTAIN this is not water (wherein we are actually baptized BY the Spirit INTO Christ?)

Romans 6
Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;7for he who has died is freed from sin.

Iamcertaintheat there is no life with out the reception of neew life provided by Christ who sent the Holy Ghost to teach us each individual truth the truth that sets them free from bondage
So who here are free from bondage? anyone
So each of us might want to decide something if we are in bondage and truth is here to set us free, being in bondage each of us might then need to re-think their truth
John 8:32And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
there error puts one and many in bondage, so it is up to each between God and them to ask for truth and that truth to set them free
John 8:36Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

and it is only the Son that can do this via the cross

 

[1still_waters]

Again this does not specify water babtism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is more likely Holy Ghost Babtism since John didstinctly said his water Babtism is not what Christ's Babtism is and this is after the resaurrection a new Covenant with the Babtism of the holy Ghost as what happened oin Pentecost and what actsa 1:5 states
Anywayto each their own, I will trust god to give the increase of understanding here

After the spiritual baptism, Peter then mentions water baptism. If baptism were just the spiritual event, why would he then encourage water baptism after the spiritual baptism had taken place?


Acts 10

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.


Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

 

[Abiding]

Peep!Peep!