Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[zone]

I have no doubt zone would say exactly what she said, to that eunuch's request to be baptized in that manner had she been Philip in her present state of mind which can come up with thoughts that would so clearly violate love, as saying, did Philip say: "oh. silly eunuch....The Spirit didn't instruct me to allow you baptism"

oh....i get it.
the poor eunuch just saw water and made a request...just cuz there happened to be water there.
and he loved water so much (?)

later, philip, because he wouldn't want to violate the law of love, prolly went and baptized the next guy in a bale of hay - because that's what was handy.

*cough*

behold the superior spirituality of kardiaoangelous, who has already denied a half dozen orthodox principles.
oh well.

just another manic Wednesday.

 

[homwardbound]

why are you moving beyond the elementary teachings when you haven't even obeyed the simple command to be baptized?

Please be careful Sister in what you judge and whom
James 2:13There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you.

 

[zone]

Not an order zone, just a sensible suggestion out of love.

k....um....if you don't mind....where does the scripture say anywhere, that The Law of Love determines the mode of baptism?

they both went down
into
the water
Philip and the eunuch,
and he baptized him.


could this reasonably say (or be taught from any pulpit or evangelist):

let us both go down
into
the sand
you and i,
and you will be baptized.


let us both go down
into
the mystic
you and i,
and you will be baptized.


let us both go down
into
the teachings
you and i,
and you will be baptized.


any of those things?
or does scripture repeatedly have the disciples baptizing other disciples, according to the Commission, in water?

 

[homwardbound]

oh yes....the Dispensation of Grace/Pauline Gospel only for today heresy:

Baptism-And-Paul < click

Itis just fine with me if you don't agree and you judge me I am okay wuth this, I can take it and can never suffer as much as christ did for us all.
So you are right and everyone else is wrong John that babtist did not say those things about needing to decrease and that the Babtism of christ is a differant Babtism than his correct?

 

[zone]

ACTSis not Doctrinal, if it is Then no one is Holy Ghost saved unles hands are layed upon them. Just an example
To use ACTS as Doctinal is like hearing on the radio to believe and be saved. To be this history of one getting saved through the radio, then this the way the truth the life NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doctrinal epistles please!

right.

the Grace Dispensation thing.
welcome to the wacky world of the LSC©tm

 

[kardiaoangelous]

k....um....if you don't mind....where does the scripture say anywhere, that The Law of Love determines the mode of baptism?

they both went down
into
the water
Philip and the eunuch,
and he baptized him.


could this reasonably say (or be taught from any pulpit or evangelist):

let us both go down
into
the sand
you and i,
and you will be baptized.


let us both go down
into
the mystic
you and i,
and you will be baptized.


let us both go down
into
the teachings
you and i,
and you will be baptized.


any of those things?
or does scripture repeatedly have the disciples baptizing other disciples, according to the Commission, in water?

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

 

[homwardbound]

So if the Spirit does it, and man can't do it, that must mean the instruction to baptize in Matthew 28 meant a baptism that human hands are capable of doing, ie water baptism. I mean why would God command they do an act only God is capable of doing?

Salvation is a gift of God and it is the word of reconciliation that we are to give
Result

• 2 Corinthians 5:19that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation
  
  Babtism is in here the word of reconciliation so please be ye reconciled to God
  [*]Romans 5:10For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
  Romans 5:9-11 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  [*]2 Corinthians 5:12[ Be Reconciled to God ] For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart.
  2 Corinthians 5:11-13 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  [*]2 Corinthians 5:18Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
  2 Corinthians 5:17-19 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  [*]2 Corinthians 5:20Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.
  
  [*]

 

[zone]

Itis just fine with me if you don't agree and you judge me I am okay wuth this, I can take it and can never suffer as much as christ did for us all.
So you are right and everyone else is wrong John that babtist did not say those things about needing to decrease and that the Babtism of christ is a differant Babtism than his correct?

home, i don't know what to say.
that dispensationalism thing you got going on is nuts.
i still love you though.

k...i'm out.
this is crazy, this 2013 denial of baptism thing.






oh, The Azusa Street Revival, why are you so relentlessly savaging the church?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

oh....i get it.
the poor eunuch just saw water and made a request...just cuz there happened to be water there.
and he loved water so much (?)

later, philip, because he wouldn't want to violate the law of love, prolly went and baptized the next guy in a bale of hay - because that's what was handy.

*cough*

behold the superior spirituality of kardiaoangelous, who has already denied a half dozen orthodox principles.
oh well.

just another manic Wednesday.

There was a bit more to it in that time which applies to that time of the infancy of the church.

 

[homwardbound]

And that is 100% correct.

That is the attitude of a truly humble man of God.

That is beautiful!!!

Thank you but please just give all the credit to God there is enough of man flesh sharks destroying the power that is found in the cross the whole cross beyond the death is what i speak of
1 Corinthians 1:18[ Christ the Power and Wisdom of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[TomH]

right.

the Grace Dispensation thing.
welcome to the wacky world of the LSC©tm

You lost me with this one, sis. What's up with "LSC©tm?"

 

[kardiaoangelous]

This whole thing is like disputing with those who believe in issuing the death sentence, resting their position on that Old Law Covenant's "eye for an eye" and Genesis 9:6 "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

Matthew 24:12 "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."

 

[homwardbound]

really?
that's where unity comes from?
to each their own?

i don't think so.

unity in God persoanlly or man flesh praising each other for their deeds and using God's nmae in vain
Isaiah 29:13Therefore the Lord said: “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,

 

[homwardbound]

After the spiritual baptism, Peter then mentions water baptism. If baptism were just the spiritual event, why would he then encourage water baptism after the spiritual baptism had taken place?


Acts 10

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.


Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Tell me as I said before if Peter did not do this and they were not water Babtized after they recieved the Holy Ghost would "God repent and take back what God gave? Are we not all today taught by God waht to do? Man I think just coninues continues to get in God's way worshipping with his lips feeling good about theirself will worship thinking they are pleasing God by this.
I know Iahve been babtised by man and was made a much worse sinner than I was prior, today Iam personally Babtized by God by his spirit and am set free by God resting in God not some Church organization, that mixes flesh (works of law) and grace. And this was a great work to come to the understasnding not bvy works, by his only
Thank you very much

 

[homwardbound]

Was poor ole Peter the apostle wrongly assuming too when he ORDERED their WATER baptism?

acts10


44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.


Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Poor ole authoritative apostle Peter misunderstood Jesus.
too bad some of us weren't around to fill him in on his error.

and was rebuked by Paul having the desire to have man be pleased by waht he was doing
over God's soverignty, but Peter eventuallylearned truth and that is why he stated in Peter abut water Babtism only being a good conscious towards God, and unfortunately it is not used this way today
Gal 2 is where Paulrebuked Peter for his showmanship ways that Peter finally got rid of
[h=3]Paul Confronts Peter[/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. [SUP]12 [/SUP]When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. [SUP]13 [/SUP]As a result, other Jewish Christians followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

 

[Abiding]

tell what "but" means in acts 1:5 and why Paul wasnt called to baptise
and what do i do with my infant baptism...should i get re-baptised?

 

[homwardbound]

It doesn't matter if Acts is a doctrine or not. The bottom line is that it was commanded by Jesus Christ himself that we are to be baptized by BOTH Spirit AND Water. (Go into ALL nations ***BAPTIZING*** them in...teaching them to OBEY my commandments.") There shouldn't be any "ifs, buts, or what ifs"...those special circumstances are for God to decide Himself on what he should do. It is specifically a commandment in the Great Commission and there is no getting around it. You can't just pick and choose which verses you want to apply and which ones you don't want. That's why they are called COMMANDMENTS because we are to OBEY them.

I am sure you are using John 3 babtiused of water and Spirit, read the next verse taht is where Chrisat explained that the water is the flesh
John 3
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

home, i don't know what to say.
that dispensationalism thing you got going on is nuts.
i still love you though.

k...i'm out.
this is crazy, this 2013 denial of baptism thing.






oh, The Azusa Street Revival, why are you so relentlessly savaging the church?

Wahtever Zone Love you back, and no problem to each their own and thanks for al your posts

 

[homwardbound]

tell what "but" means in acts 1:5 and why Paul wasnt called to baptise
and what do i do with my infant baptism...should i get re-baptised?

[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Then came the power from on high the Babtism of the Holy Ghost and is here today to stay on this side of the cross
I am by no means ever said to not get water Babtized I am only showing and have shown by Scripture the differance between the two. For John clearly stated the two types of Babtism and that his was to decrease after he babtised Christ
And eph is clear that their is only one babtism
Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

So which Babtism is the one for today is really what is going on here? Life in Christ or the one for repentance that all that is is a man's will worship when God can only be worshipped in Spirit and truth

1. John 4:23
   But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
   John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. John 4:24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
   John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. John 14:17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
   John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4. John 16:13However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
   John 16:12-14 (in Context) John 16 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

 

[Abiding]

the principle to come up with cessation seems to be inconsistent.
If its all in a intermediate time, to go from type to the real thing.
From sign gifts with the laying on of hands to not.
hmmm

As an ordinance im ok with water baptism, to argue the case, im not sure
why but it never seemed important enuf to me. Maybe it was something John said.