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A
Pardon my frustration beloved brothers and sisters. It is not with the lack of understanding of law and grace among some in this thread. It is more with the brazen way many are writing heretical statements and boldly passing it off as Biblical doctrine.
There are 3 relevant covenants for this discussion:
1. Abrahamic
2. Mosaic
3. The New Covenant in Christ Jesus Our Lord
The Abrahamic covenant was based on FAITH. There were no works involved. And it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It was SIGNIFIED by circumcision. Circumcision was the entry SIGN into the covenant. But circumcision did not save Abraham:
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Abraham was saved and sealed with faith in Christ BEFORE he was circumcised. The purpose of the circumcision was to be the official sign that you have entered into a covenant with God. So was it important? YES. Which is why God threatened to kill Moses when he did not circumcise his son. But it was not what brought salvation. Lord willing, we can all agree on this.
B. The Mosaic covenant was for transgression. It was created to ensure the Israelites were able to reach the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. And the Mosaic covenant or old covenant is Ten Commandments. This is why the ark is called the "Ark OF THE COVENANT" because it had the 10 commandments in them.
"[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone." - Deuteronomy 4:13.
"When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water:" Deuteronomy 9:9.
"And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the Lord gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant." - Deuteronomy 9:11. (The 613 Mosaic laws were supplements to the 10 commandments to give greater detail on how to resolve specific situations pertaining to each commandment).
This was a conditional covenant. The Israelites had to agree to perform this covenant (as opposed to the abrahamic covenant which was agreed to WHILE ABRAHAM WAS ASLEEP. God performed the agreement to the covenant Himself). This agreement is found in Exodus 24. This covenant also had a sign - the Sabbath, which was done for the purpose of Memorial (of the 7th day when God rested from His work and a time of peace between God and man - because Adam and Eve had not yet sinned and thus the creation was in righteous harmony with The Lord).
This covenant was conditioned on every commandment being kept- "Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen." (Deut 27:26). And this covenant was BROKEN. Once it is broken, it is over. How do we know this? The Lord said it:
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [SUP]32 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." - Jeremiah 31.
But wait, could the Old Covenant be dead? ALL OF IT? Really?
Yes, and it officially died before God with the death of the testator:
"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, [SUP]20 [/SUP]Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
- Hebrews 9.
Clearly, the "he" in the first verse is our Lord Jesus Christ. His death allowed the death of the Old covenant or old testament. Thus the 10 commandments died as a covenant with God on the cross (and were thus "nailed to the cross"). So for any believer in God we are reconciled through the New Covenant, in Jesus Christ and freed from the bondage of the law.
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. - Galatians 3.
The law only served its purpose until CHRIST CAME TO EARTH AND DIED ON THE CROSS. And now it has passed on. It was a time restricted covenant.
This is why Christ, before His death could proclaim the New Covenant:
"And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; [SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." - Matthew 26.
does this sound familair?? Christ Our Lord is quoting Moses at the institution of the Old Covenant in Exodus 24. Clearly, the Old Covenant is gone. All of it. Including ALL THE COMMANDMENTS. Now that the "seed" is here, the old covenant is no longer in effect.
So wait, can Christians now sin and do whatever we like?
No. Of course not. As God said in Jeremiah 31, He has written the law in our hearts. We have the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin and no longer need the law. The law is only for the unsaved:
"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3.
So if you are unsaved, please feel free to follow the law. Because Lord willing, it will convict you of your need for a Savior.
But if you are saved, your attempts to follow the law and force it on others is a gross perversion of the Gospel. The Old covenant has passed away and been replaced by a superior covenant.
More evidence:
"[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." - Matthew 5
Notice here our Lord is saying that the law will indeed pass away. This verse is often misquoted as Jesus saying the opposite. It's just a matter of when was "all fulfilled." We find this in scripture:
"
[SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." - John 19.
This was the moment. All had been fulfilled. Hence Jesus saying "It is finished." And even the hyssop (again going back to Moses at Exodus 24) and the vinegar were final fulfillments of Old Testament prophecy.
So that was that.
Which brings us to BAPTISM. What is it's purpose?
it is the ENTRY SIGN OF THE NEW COVENANT. Just as circumcision once was with the Abrahmic covenant. Now it's baptism. So is it important? YES. Because we are to sign the contracts we make with our God. But does it save? NO.
So how can I be so sure of this? Well, I read it in the Bible:
"
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" - Colossians 2.
Notice the link of circumcision and baptism? Paul is explaing that just as circumcision was a sign of the "inward circumcsion" God did in our hearts, baptism is now that sign. Peter makes the same point.
"[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3.
Again we see that Baptism has replaced circumcision as the signifcation of our covenant with God. This is why is so important and commanded by Christ and the apostles. A covenant is an official transaction. The Mosaic covenant was ratified by THE ENTIRE NATION OF ISRAEL. every single person had to agree before God and each other. Similarly we have to signify our covenant with The Lord. But this is not the seal.
The seal is spiritual. Going back to Romans 4, Abraham was sealed by faith which was accounted as righteousness. Christians today are sealed by the Holy Spirit, NOT BAPTISM. This is a part of our salvation. This is why the Ethipion eunich was first saved, proclaimed his faith and then was baptised. This is why Cornelius and his family were saved, spoke in tongues and then were baptized. Like abraham, they were SEALED BEFORE THEY RECEIVED THEIR SIGN.
Lord willing, this will help explain baptism's actual, biblical purpose. I wish I could have written more or been more clear but I was rushing because I am on my lunch break. And now that I am absolutely starving I am going to get some grub. God bless you all.
There are 3 relevant covenants for this discussion:
1. Abrahamic
2. Mosaic
3. The New Covenant in Christ Jesus Our Lord
The Abrahamic covenant was based on FAITH. There were no works involved. And it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It was SIGNIFIED by circumcision. Circumcision was the entry SIGN into the covenant. But circumcision did not save Abraham:
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Abraham was saved and sealed with faith in Christ BEFORE he was circumcised. The purpose of the circumcision was to be the official sign that you have entered into a covenant with God. So was it important? YES. Which is why God threatened to kill Moses when he did not circumcise his son. But it was not what brought salvation. Lord willing, we can all agree on this.
B. The Mosaic covenant was for transgression. It was created to ensure the Israelites were able to reach the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. And the Mosaic covenant or old covenant is Ten Commandments. This is why the ark is called the "Ark OF THE COVENANT" because it had the 10 commandments in them.
"[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone." - Deuteronomy 4:13.
"When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water:" Deuteronomy 9:9.
"And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the Lord gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant." - Deuteronomy 9:11. (The 613 Mosaic laws were supplements to the 10 commandments to give greater detail on how to resolve specific situations pertaining to each commandment).
This was a conditional covenant. The Israelites had to agree to perform this covenant (as opposed to the abrahamic covenant which was agreed to WHILE ABRAHAM WAS ASLEEP. God performed the agreement to the covenant Himself). This agreement is found in Exodus 24. This covenant also had a sign - the Sabbath, which was done for the purpose of Memorial (of the 7th day when God rested from His work and a time of peace between God and man - because Adam and Eve had not yet sinned and thus the creation was in righteous harmony with The Lord).
This covenant was conditioned on every commandment being kept- "Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen." (Deut 27:26). And this covenant was BROKEN. Once it is broken, it is over. How do we know this? The Lord said it:
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [SUP]32 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." - Jeremiah 31.
But wait, could the Old Covenant be dead? ALL OF IT? Really?
Yes, and it officially died before God with the death of the testator:
"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, [SUP]20 [/SUP]Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
- Hebrews 9.
Clearly, the "he" in the first verse is our Lord Jesus Christ. His death allowed the death of the Old covenant or old testament. Thus the 10 commandments died as a covenant with God on the cross (and were thus "nailed to the cross"). So for any believer in God we are reconciled through the New Covenant, in Jesus Christ and freed from the bondage of the law.
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. - Galatians 3.
The law only served its purpose until CHRIST CAME TO EARTH AND DIED ON THE CROSS. And now it has passed on. It was a time restricted covenant.
This is why Christ, before His death could proclaim the New Covenant:
"And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; [SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." - Matthew 26.
does this sound familair?? Christ Our Lord is quoting Moses at the institution of the Old Covenant in Exodus 24. Clearly, the Old Covenant is gone. All of it. Including ALL THE COMMANDMENTS. Now that the "seed" is here, the old covenant is no longer in effect.
So wait, can Christians now sin and do whatever we like?
No. Of course not. As God said in Jeremiah 31, He has written the law in our hearts. We have the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin and no longer need the law. The law is only for the unsaved:
"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3.
So if you are unsaved, please feel free to follow the law. Because Lord willing, it will convict you of your need for a Savior.
But if you are saved, your attempts to follow the law and force it on others is a gross perversion of the Gospel. The Old covenant has passed away and been replaced by a superior covenant.
More evidence:
"[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." - Matthew 5
Notice here our Lord is saying that the law will indeed pass away. This verse is often misquoted as Jesus saying the opposite. It's just a matter of when was "all fulfilled." We find this in scripture:
"
[SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." - John 19.
This was the moment. All had been fulfilled. Hence Jesus saying "It is finished." And even the hyssop (again going back to Moses at Exodus 24) and the vinegar were final fulfillments of Old Testament prophecy.
So that was that.
Which brings us to BAPTISM. What is it's purpose?
it is the ENTRY SIGN OF THE NEW COVENANT. Just as circumcision once was with the Abrahmic covenant. Now it's baptism. So is it important? YES. Because we are to sign the contracts we make with our God. But does it save? NO.
So how can I be so sure of this? Well, I read it in the Bible:
"
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" - Colossians 2.
Notice the link of circumcision and baptism? Paul is explaing that just as circumcision was a sign of the "inward circumcsion" God did in our hearts, baptism is now that sign. Peter makes the same point.
"[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3.
Again we see that Baptism has replaced circumcision as the signifcation of our covenant with God. This is why is so important and commanded by Christ and the apostles. A covenant is an official transaction. The Mosaic covenant was ratified by THE ENTIRE NATION OF ISRAEL. every single person had to agree before God and each other. Similarly we have to signify our covenant with The Lord. But this is not the seal.
The seal is spiritual. Going back to Romans 4, Abraham was sealed by faith which was accounted as righteousness. Christians today are sealed by the Holy Spirit, NOT BAPTISM. This is a part of our salvation. This is why the Ethipion eunich was first saved, proclaimed his faith and then was baptised. This is why Cornelius and his family were saved, spoke in tongues and then were baptized. Like abraham, they were SEALED BEFORE THEY RECEIVED THEIR SIGN.
Lord willing, this will help explain baptism's actual, biblical purpose. I wish I could have written more or been more clear but I was rushing because I am on my lunch break. And now that I am absolutely starving I am going to get some grub. God bless you all.
A
One last thing I forgot to add: the fact that Baptism is a SIGN of a covenant but not our seal, (the Holy Spirit) which is our salvation is also why the thief on the cross could be saved without baptism and why Abraham, Moses and David are indeed in Heaven and redeemed and not in hell as someone earlier suggested.
"n whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1.
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4.
Ok, now I'm going to eat, for real. I promise. lol.
"n whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1.
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4.
Ok, now I'm going to eat, for real. I promise. lol.
A
Understood. Here are the cliff notes:
1. You have fundamentally misunderstood the Law and the Gospel.
2. You are spreading a false gospel on these message boards.
3. Pray for understanding of the Biblical Gospel and believe in our Lord Jesus Christ (the Christ of the Bible, not the "Christ" of a false works-based doctrine).
A
Indeed, my post was super long, but it was necessary. Between this thread and the endless Sabbath thread it has become apparent that there are startling number of people in the forum who do not understand Biblically, the law, covenants and the Gospel. Seeing statements like "Abraham, Moses and David were saved by the Old Covenant" is quite alarming. There is no point in even debating the necessity of baptism or sabbath keeping if you do not understand the law and the Gospel and the difference between the Old and New covenants. So my prayer is that some will look at the lengthty explanation provided and Lord willing receive some edification.
I have now read your post and certainly agree with it. I would only add that baptism is an actual sign of the New covenant because signature to the covenant was emphasized by The Lord with Abraham. So that is its primary role in addition to its symbolic/witnessing value. God bless.
I have now read your post and certainly agree with it. I would only add that baptism is an actual sign of the New covenant because signature to the covenant was emphasized by The Lord with Abraham. So that is its primary role in addition to its symbolic/witnessing value. God bless.
A
Now you are just contradicting yourself. The blood of bulls and goats cannot provide remission of sin (as you already said). Now you are claiming they do provide remission of sins. So which is it? Are you still condemning Abraham, Moses and David to hell? How can they not be there without the magic of baptism??
A
1. Yes you have misunderstood the Gospel. Your own statements prove this.
2) Where there are works, there is no grace.
3) It's not an insult. I took the time to write an actual Biblical critique. Had I just made an offhand comment like "You're wrong....because you're wrong!" then I could understand your point. But I did the exact opposite. Now you have absolutely no obligation whatsoever to read my posts, but I have provided more than enough substantive reasoning for why I think you are preaching a false Gospel and a false Christ. So this is no ad hominem. It is based on the substantive reasoning I have provided. And my suggestions to pray was not sarcasm. It was completely serious.
2) Where there are works, there is no grace.
3) It's not an insult. I took the time to write an actual Biblical critique. Had I just made an offhand comment like "You're wrong....because you're wrong!" then I could understand your point. But I did the exact opposite. Now you have absolutely no obligation whatsoever to read my posts, but I have provided more than enough substantive reasoning for why I think you are preaching a false Gospel and a false Christ. So this is no ad hominem. It is based on the substantive reasoning I have provided. And my suggestions to pray was not sarcasm. It was completely serious.
A
"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." - Hebrews 10:4.
That statement is not qualified. It's absolute. The blood of bulls and goats do not take away sins for ANYONE. And to think that a bull could serve as Savior again shows your lack of understanding of the Gospel.
yes, I am sharply rebuking you because scripture instructs me to. You are teaching a false gospel. And now you have added a second Gospel on top of it by saying old testament patriarchs had their sins forgiven through the "bull savior."
C
Evidently not A- Omega LOL I could have made a LARGE mistake. IF I did I REPENT> LOL
Moses and David and Abraham was under the old covenant. The old testament. Their testament ways of remission of sins, which wasn't really a remission cause it never really cleaned their sins away just rolled it forward was that of the shedding of animals blood.
When JESUS became the perfect sacrifice for our sins we no longer needed the animals blood. There was a new testament, because a testator had died.
So now with the new covenant in place there are new rules. Repentance, baptism and infilling of the HOLY SPIRIT that saves.
Moses and David and Abraham was under the old covenant. The old testament. Their testament ways of remission of sins, which wasn't really a remission cause it never really cleaned their sins away just rolled it forward was that of the shedding of animals blood.
When JESUS became the perfect sacrifice for our sins we no longer needed the animals blood. There was a new testament, because a testator had died.
So now with the new covenant in place there are new rules. Repentance, baptism and infilling of the HOLY SPIRIT that saves.