Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[jinx]

watch it living. He will tell ya that water in that verse is from a mothers womb.

***thinks about zone again, chuckles***

 

[livingepistle]

It's draining I tell ya.

Warfare...LOL ***wiping sweat from my brow***

Most of CC is good dialog and I am enjoying the discussion.

I am sticking it out because there are a few that are sincere including ourselves. You and Zone are somethin else. Wow. I admire you both. The bazooka Sister gets a howitzer for her birthday...LOL

Seriously, Enjoying the CC and all that are here.

 

[jinx]

I have too leave here in a few minutes for a few hours.

 

[A-Omega]

All it takes is some sound Biblical doctrine, and the false Gospel preaching come to an end.

 

[jinx]

I aint leaving cause of you A-omega...LOL. I going to pick up my new truck.

 

[livingepistle]

And where does this wisdom come from, none other than God himself by who by what? The Holy Ghost yes? so tell me are you saying we recieve the Holy Ghost by water Babtism? if this is true then there was no need for Christ, for as John Babtized in water each person coming upout of the water would have been Holy Ghost Babtized period. But John said plainly that his Babtism was one of repentance only to the people that desired to serve God, and that Christ was headed for the cross and was going to Babtize us with the Holy Ghost and with fire.
Are you Holy Ghost Babtized or just water Babtized or both. All I care about is if one is Holy Ghost Babtized

The Spirit is what resurrects us and the scriptures support your statement. It is good that you are water baptized in the name of Jesus.

Concerning Romans 6:4 the proper interpretation is not the Spirit but water baptism.

Concerning the “Death, Burial, and Resurrection”, this is the description of Believer’s salvation; the method whereby we enter “into” Christ Jesus, for new life.

Two Questions for you:
1. “How, as believers, do/did we die, get buried, and resurrect, “Or is this strictly metaphor?”
2. How do you define “salvation” according to your definition or the Bible’s definition?

Spirit-Water-Blood

This is the supporting scripture that proves the Spirit and water are not one in the same baptisms: 1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Notice, they agree in one—it does say that they “are one”.

You contend that it is all about the Spirit. That would be a compelling argument except we could not forget that this scripture separates them and includes the phrase, “Witness in earth”. The next question that should be asked, is “Witness to What?”. The answer is behind door number one —“The Jesus Door”…that door to eternal life…“Answer: the New Covenant”.

God’s ordinance requires that for a covenant to be legitimate it takes a minimum of two witnesses; three preferably. Most important, it shall be sealed in blood; “Cutting the Covenant”.

The term "cutting the covenant" comes from the Hebrew word "BERITH", or the Greek word"DIATHEKE", which means to make a covenant by cutting to make the blood flow.

The blood covenant is the most binding covenant. Once agreed and sealed, only the death of one or both of the covenant makers will release the other. The blood covenant is serious and never entered into casually. To enter into covenant, each party must be willing to commit life for life. Question; “What came out of Jesus’ side after they pierced his body on the cross?” blood and water. The sacrifice was the beginning of the new-covenant "cutting" and witnessed by the Spirit, water, and blood.

I will stop now for responses. There is much more to consider

After believing, I received salvation in every manner as described in Acts 2:38. I was baptized “into” Christ Jesus and filled with the Holy Ghost. Jesus Reigns over my "will" and has dominion.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Let's look at the verse in context:

[SUP]"18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:[SUP]19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."

[SUP]

The meaning of the passage is this: The Lord Jesus Christ died, was buried and resurrected. That was His Baptism. In the time of His death, He descended into the lower parts of the Earth or Hades and preached to the disobedient spirits there. Those were the same spirits who sinned prior to the flood. Peter then references the flood and the ark, specifically, which was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ in the sense of its salvation. It is also a forehsadow of water baptism which is an antetype of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord.

So the "baptism" in verse 21 is the baptism of Christ, which indeed saves us from sin.

Our Lord confirmed this Himself:

"[/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." - Matthew 20


[SUP]
The Baptism being referred to here is DEATH. And that is the baptism Peter is speaking of. Because Christ's death and resurrection, or His "baptism" indeed saves us who believe in the Biblical Gospel.[/SUP]

Your explanation is so good A-Omega, and so close to my own view of it, that I am going to use your view as my template for replying to Ciscokid.

The only part I am concerned about as being a bit unclear is this:

"The meaning of the passage is this: The Lord Jesus Christ died, was buried and resurrected. That was His Baptism. In the time of His death, He descended into the lower parts of the Earth or Hades and preached to the disobedient spirits there. Those were the same spirits who sinned prior to the flood. Peter then references the flood and the ark, specifically, which was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ in the sense of its salvation. It is also a forehsadow of water baptism which is an antetype of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord.

So the "baptism" in verse 21 is the baptism of Christ, which indeed saves us from sin."

I am hoping that you, just as I, understand from what you see that the comparison is that entire Ark with all it's occupants aboard being baptized by the flood waters and saved to live on the other side of that flood, just as Jesus himself was saved to life on the other side of the grave by the power of the Father.

Thus it is absolutely clear that Peter speaks of the same group baptism of the church all together in Christ as their Ark of salvation being transported through though the death this world is suffering by it's flood of wickedness which Isa 57:20 compares to a churning sea.

And it is then absolutely clear how what Peter said compares to what Paul also said:

1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Hebrews 6:1 Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

 

[livingepistle]

I aint leaving cause of you A-omega...LOL. I going to pick up my new truck.

New truck, congrats.

 

[A-Omega]

I aint leaving cause of you A-omega...LOL. I going to pick up my new truck.

I said nothing about you leaving. I said your false Gospel preaching has ended.

Congrats on the truck though. lol.

 

[A-Omega]

Your explanation is so good A-Omega, and so close to my own view of it, that I am going to use your view as my template for replying to Ciscokid.

The only part I am concerned about as being a bit unclear is this:

"The meaning of the passage is this: The Lord Jesus Christ died, was buried and resurrected. That was His Baptism. In the time of His death, He descended into the lower parts of the Earth or Hades and preached to the disobedient spirits there. Those were the same spirits who sinned prior to the flood. Peter then references the flood and the ark, specifically, which was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ in the sense of its salvation. It is also a forehsadow of water baptism which is an antetype of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord.

So the "baptism" in verse 21 is the baptism of Christ, which indeed saves us from sin."

I am hoping that you, just as I, understand from what you see that the comparison is that entire Ark with all it's occupants aboard being baptized by the flood waters and saved to live on the other side of that flood, just as Jesus himself was saved to life on the other side of the grave by the power of the Father.

Thus it is absolutely clear that Peter speaks of the same group baptism of the church all together in Christ as their Ark of salvation being transported through though the death this world is suffering by it's flood of wickedness which Isa 57:20 compares to a churning sea.

And it is then absolutely clear how what Peter said compares to what Paul also said:

1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Hebrews 6:1 Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

I agree 100%.

 

[livingepistle]

Because your false doctrine has been exposed.

This is not a rapture debate or who the final kingdom of Daniel chapter 2 is. Those are discussions that leave lots of room for interpretation. This is a discussion about salvation. The Gospel is the foundation of the faith. So again, I had to rebuke you with Scripture because there is extreme danger in just posting a false gospel.

Again, I pray that you will seek The Lord and search Scripture to understand the Biblical Gospel and how the OT patriarchs were actually saved.

Excuse me maybe you will answer this: What is the Biblical definition of salvation.

Brotherly love continues

 

[kardiaoangelous]

watch it living. He will tell ya that water in that verse is from a mothers womb.

***thinks about zone again, chuckles***

Would you be willing to consider it, if it is explained to you step by step how homward derives that understanding from the scriptures?

 

[livingepistle]

They don't provide remission of sins for us who are under the new covenant.

You are correct and I have the Biblical answer for you just give me a second to answer another question.

 

[Ciscokid]

.I can't see why you guys can't understand or see why baptism is a must.
--livingepistle is right , the Bible does say "we must be born again of the water and the Spirit."

Born ---AGAIN--just like the first time. Born of water, because rise from a watery grave to be born again,. and of Spirit this time we have a Spirit which is the Spirit of God.

 

[A-Omega]

.I can't see why you guys can't understand or see why baptism is a must.
--livingepistle is right , the Bible does say "we must be born again of the water and the Spirit."

Born ---AGAIN--just like the first time. Born of water, because rise from a watery grave to be born again,. and of Spirit this time we have a Spirit which is the Spirit of God.

And again I ask, how were Abraham, Moses and David saved? Or are you of the mind that they are condemned?

 

[A-Omega]

Excuse me maybe you will answer this: What is the Biblical definition of salvation.

Brotherly love continues

I explained all my thoughts on the law and Gospel in my prior post.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

.I can't see why you guys can't understand or see why baptism is a must.
--livingepistle is right , the Bible does say "we must be born again of the water and the Spirit."

Born ---AGAIN--just like the first time. Born of water, because rise from a watery grave to be born again,. and of Spirit this time we have a Spirit which is the Spirit of God.

Then let us discuss that statement which was made by Jesus together and see what the scriptures reveal as to whether Jesus meant the water as in the literal water of John's baptism or if Jesus meant it as in the water of God's word like as Paul spoke of Apollos watering with at 1 Cor 3: 6.

1 Corinthians 3:6 "I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase."

Are you willing?

I will be breaking for a little while but what be happy to show you later how this is born of the Old Testament and a type of a mother's womb.

 

[zone]

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY


CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE ARE HEREBY ADVISED TO

CEASE AND DESIST

WATER BAPTISM


New information has been introduced, now informing The Church,
contrary to 2000 years of practice that:

Baptism was intended to stop with John the Baptist;
OR should have been understood to be allegorical;
OR may only be performed per random requests according to the Law of Love















- satire -

(incredibly, this disclaimer is needed)​

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Nobody has said that, zone.

Calm your fear and believe with all your heart that it is important to properly understand the scriptures and know that such emotion can only prevent that.

1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment (which restrains one, according to the root of the Greek word, and therefore). He that feareth is not made perfect in love." (KJV)

 

[jinx]

New truck, congrats.

Thanks. GOD is GOOD!!!