Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[A-Omega]

Jinx, are you saying without Water Babtism, one can not recieve the Holy Ghost?

Water Babtism is not the washing away of sins, the Holy Ghost Babtism is the seal we are sealed with the first day of Belief, water babtism with out the Holy Ghost the resurrection we are still dead in our sins,
1 Peter 3:21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Ephesians 1:13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Jinx got caught in a heretical trap because the person like some others could not explain the salvation of Abraham, Moses and David. Which is why Jinx just shut it down and stopped discussing the topic and switched to truck and dog chat.

But the posts are up so everyone can see the Biblical error of those who are trying to say baptism is necessary for salvation.

 

[A-Omega]

You don't get it. Christ's baptism was of the Holy Spirit AND water. Baptism was a part of Jewish tradition waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Christ and JOhn the Baptist came around. What did that tradition consist of? Being FULLY immersed into WATER! The act was simply carried out into Christianity. If Christ was baptized by BOTH spirit AND water and Christ commands it HIMSELF, what is so hard about doing what he asks? It's a command. Is it not to be followed like all his other commands? Let God take care of the ones who are incapable of full immersion and let US do what Christ commanded! I don't see what is so hard to understand about this. I really don't.

It's not about following what Jesus commands (i.e., law, obedience..) it is about whether or not baptism is an essential part of salvation. This is an extremely important question because it goes to what is the Gospel and which Jesus are you worshiping.

Baptism is NOT required for salvation. And believing in a Gospel like that is believing in works. And one should be very wary of believing in "another Gospel" and "another Jesus" (the one who is "co-redeemer" along with your church's baptismal pool).

We as believers need to take our explanations of the Gospel very seriously. And make sure it is in line with Scripture.

 

[JesusChica1991]

Faith without works is dead. We need both faith AND works. Come on...I figured this out years ago....I don't see what's so hard about getting immersed into water and spirit. If Jesus did it, surely everyone else can but people get caught up in the "it's only a works issue". This shouldn't matter. Jesus was baptized and he commanded it. If it's a command, the only logic is "we should follow through." It's not that difficult.

 

[A-Omega]

Faith without works is dead. We need both faith AND works. Come on...I figured this out years ago....I don't see what's so hard about getting immersed into water and spirit. If Jesus did it, surely everyone else can but people get caught up in the "it's only a works issue". This shouldn't matter. Jesus was baptized and he commanded it. If it's a command, the only logic is "we should follow through." It's not that difficult.

"
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17[/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

The "Royal law" are the commandments Christ instituted for the church: to love and believe in Him and love your neighbor and brethren. James' point is that if you are a Christian, your love should show. This chapter is not a chapter about salvation. It's an exhortation to people who are already Christians, and already saved to treat others with kindness, love and impartiality. James is just reiterating what our Lord said when He gave the Royal Law:

"

[SUP]34 [/SUP]A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." - John 13.

So James in James 2 is just reiterating this. He's saying "guys, stop playing favorites in church. if you are Christians, show the love that Jesus spoke about." And we can only do this if we have the Holy Spirit, meaning we are already saved. So the work of love in the manner Christ commanded comes after faith and salvation.

I absolutely believe in getting baptized. In fact, I've been baptized twice. lol. And I believe all Christians should get baptized. So I think we mostly agree. I am just trying to clarify that it is not essential for salvation. It has no saving power at all. God bless.

 

[homwardbound]

Great, now show me where it says that water baptism stopped with John "The Baptist"?

[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Then came Pentecost the indwelling of the Holy Ghost,
John said it in Matthew that this is what Christ was come to do and seperated water Babtism from Holy Ghost Baptism,
John 3:27-30
[SUP]27 [/SUP]To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. [SUP]28 [/SUP]You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him.’ [SUP]29 [/SUP]The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. [SUP]30 [/SUP]He must become greater; I must become less.”
Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Now brother is there two types of Babtism talked about here?
And John states that his Babtism is not for life rather repentance leading towards life yes?

The he must decrease and Christ must increase yes?
And what was John's actual mission waht was John born for to do?
Was it not to announce the Christ? was John not the forerunner for Christ in the Spirit of Elijah?
So tell me after John's Job was done announciing Christ has arrived, why are a lot of people saying with out Water Babtism one is not saved making this into a law?
No one is saved without the Holy Ghost seal. Water Babtism does not provide the Holy Ghost seal. God does through the cross of Christ the resurrection by beleif
Even inActs those that only had the water Babtism had or needed stillto recieve the Holy Ghost, not theother way around.
Again I am not against anyone getting water Babtized, I am against those that say if not water Babtized one can't be saved, when it is clear that the Holy Ghost came upon Cornelious's family before water Babtism, even though Peter instructed them to get water Babtized as if that would save them anymore that already saved.
They already recieved life in Christ by belief, this all of waht I am saying
God can turn these rocks to Israelites as John said to the hypocrites
Matthew 3:7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
To many worshipping with the lips and the hhearts far from him when today God can only be worshipped
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
John 4:24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth

So whether one gets water Babtized or not is not the issue, the issue is how are we worshipping God? And can we without the Spirit of God worship God in truth
Are we not to be born again by the Spirit of God read all of John 3 and were it states John 3:16 especially and then at John 3:31 where John's water Babtism is to decrease and Christ's is to increase it is so simply true that it is hard to see and really can only be reveled by God himself to each person personally themselves

 

[homwardbound]

No. The Bible scriptures say that we must be born again of the water and the Spirit. Your next post asks similar questions so I will post an in depth answer on that one.

right after that post Broither first born of the flesh then the Spirit, qualifying what he meant by saying water in the previous verse and today it is interpreted that one must bve Babtized in water, and that contradicts John saying he must decrease go away be done and Christ is to take over

 

[notuptome]

Faith without works is dead. We need both faith AND works. Come on...I figured this out years ago....I don't see what's so hard about getting immersed into water and spirit. If Jesus did it, surely everyone else can but people get caught up in the "it's only a works issue". This shouldn't matter. Jesus was baptized and he commanded it. If it's a command, the only logic is "we should follow through." It's not that difficult.

Your exegesis of James is wrong. Boldly so because it pits itself against Eph 2 where we see that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. James and Paul cannot disagree with one another. You further err when you conclude that water baptism is a command. Doctrinally and linguistically you have failed to do due diligence to the text.
Jesus concluded that it is finished. What can you add to what He has done?
Jude 1:24 Now unto Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy.
Meditate on the fact that Jesus saves and keeps so that He might present us to the Father with exceeding joy. Glory to God!

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[homwardbound]

watch it living. He will tell ya that water in that verse is from a mothers womb.

***thinks about zone again, chuckles***

When a baby is born about how much water is of the baby 90% or something like that BORN OF THE WATER Sister
John 3:5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
John 3:6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

.I can't see why you guys can't understand or see why baptism is a must.
--livingepistle is right , the Bible does say "we must be born again of the water and the Spirit."

Born ---AGAIN--just like the first time. Born of water, because rise from a watery grave to be born again,. and of Spirit this time we have a Spirit which is the Spirit of God.

Born of the Water is born of the flesh period it is clear in John 3:5-6 and there is a distinct differance of Spirit and water and or flesh
John 3:5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY


CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE ARE HEREBY ADVISED TO

CEASE AND DESIST

WATER BAPTISM


New information has been introduced, now informing The Church,
contrary to 2000 years of practice that:

Baptism was intended to stop with John the Baptist;
OR should have been understood to be allegorical;
OR may only be performed per random requests according to the Law of Love















- satire -

(incredibly, this disclaimer is needed)​

And recieve new life by the Babtism of the Holy Ghost as the Cornelious family did as Peter was speakiing in acts 10, Then go ahead and get water babtized but there is no need for God already gave you new life by God a free guift the day you believed go ahead and add works of salvation that yoiu recieved by Faith in God go ahead and be decieved as the Galatians were admonished by Paul
Galatians 3:1[ Faith or Works of the Law ] You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
Are we foolish Galatians? Be careful seek the Spirit of God not the fleshly wisdom of deception , the feel good ministries all over this world, in place of what is reality
Again who is refuting what John said about himself that his water Babtism must decrease and Christ's Babtism of the Holy Ghost must increase
John 3 please let us all rightly divide the word of truth and ask God to sort out waht is truth
Can anyone refute what John has said about his Babtism and Christ's.
Which ine is alive today? Christ's or John's. Spiritual or man's?

 

[homwardbound]

OT and NT requires different sacrifices.

Salvation never came thorugh the Law it has been by faith always.
Romans 4:2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
Romans 3:28For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.
Romans 4:4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.

Just keep being obligated and stressed out or proud and boastful of all ones self efforts. Love You Jinx no matter what and am thnak you for free choice and I know God will straighten out everything in God's due time becasue I know you give God thanks and God has recieved you, now understand this as well God has recieved too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love Homwardbound Mystic or any other name calling you wish to do or agree with others acting in notihng but a fleshly attitude
I thought and do believe God has by God's grace has born you again into God's family the Spiritual kingdom of heaven and has put on your heart his kind of love has God not?
I do widh we all were in redeemed bodies at least consider ourselves dead to flesh here and now as what Romans 6 is actaully about being dead to the flesh (sin nature) and alive to God by the Spirit of God, whether that Babtism is of water or Holy ghost we are toi be dead to flesh behavior, and this is not what is happening, I do not think God pleased by this do you? It is not between you and I or anyone else it is between God and you period, just as King David had said He not onlysinned against the people but more importantly he sinned against God, and God said a man after his own heart. A Godly sorrow over took the worldly sorrow, which is what a lot of us have only a worldly one, anyways however I said what needed to be said take it o9r leave it

 

[homwardbound]

LOL..........fear

my good man, thou knoweth me not.
neither knoweth thou the scriptures.

But God knoweth you Zone

 

[homwardbound]

hey settle down there buddy.
have the courage of your convictions.

WHY would the church continue baptizing SINCE: JESUS never commanded it?

that means it is ERROR.

and you need to think about taking the Lord's Name in vain.
that means most importantly saying things about Him He never said, making claims He never made.

Yes it is Zone very much so foir their ius only one true Church actually tabernacle that all the Siants worship at and if christ were here he would not be
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The High Priest of a New Covenant[/h]8 Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.

Their own man-made law not being in one accord as we are called to be and that place is in Heaven God's kingdom is not here on earth, So yes man is in great error and has once again made his own righteousness and stumbled over the stumbling stone as the first chosen did.

 

[homwardbound]

Look guy's baptism is a show or act of dedication. However, it can be seen as as something "I" did. The only thing we can do to be saved is accept Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. Why we focus on things we can do is beyond me. We keep trying to say "look Lord what I have done" and He keeps saying " no look at what I have done for you".

Absolutely is what is to be seen as truth the whole truth and notihng but the truth, Thank you Kerry. It is not about us or waht we do it is about God and what God has done for us via the cross of Christ most oimportant the resurrection of and thus the reception of the Holy Ghost with fire as John the Babtist stated would be is here today

 

[homwardbound]

Again i agree 100%.

Does that mean I do not have any responsibility to share and spread the knowledge of God with the increase as he gives that knowledge?

So please tell me who the mother was whom Paul was speaking about here: Galatians 1:15 "But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace.."

careful Brother the flesh is trying to pull you in

 

[homwardbound]

Thinks that if your going to spread the gospel then you should teach what the early church taught, which is Acts 2:38. The death burial and resurrection of the LORD JESUS the Christ. Anything other than that and your stepping away from what the very disciples taught.

JESUS gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, which was a revelation. In-turn, Peter used those keys to open the doorway of understanding for us on the day of Pentecost.

If JESUS gave those keys, knowing before hand what Peter would say, don't ya think that it is good enough for us as well? Or are we all more special than Peter?

You are right on only about the death, burial and resurrection, the water Babtism was a forshadow of this as John said he was to decrease and Christ was to increase.
Any way we are if we both do believe in Christ as our Savior Citizens of heaven yes?

 

[homwardbound]

That is the common response to that question but he was not. He was speaking of being born from this mother at time he identified when he mentioned it to the Corinthian church at 1 Corinthians 15:1-10

1 Corinthians 15:8 "And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time."
1 Corinthians 15:9 "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

That alerts us to look there in Galatians 1:15 to see if he indicates that to have been on the road to Damascus just as he related it to the Corinthians. And we see that he definitely did.

This happened to him at a time where he was, Galatians 1:14 "And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers." That was why he was so zealously persecuting the church.

Now notice: Galatians 1:15-16 "But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood.."

The Jews viewed earthly Jerusalem as their mother in whose womb they were being nourished by the water of the word of the Law of God.

And we see that here, also:

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

therefore by belief in the finished work of the cross the resurrection we are no longer in bondage to the slave woman and are made free by the Holy Ghost (Spirit) of God, if we do believe in God's doing and giving us this free gift of Salvation as Cornelious believed and recieved the Holy Ghost Babtism immediately WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks and no flesh will ever please God in God's sight
Galatians 5:13[ Life by the Spirit ] You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love

 

[homwardbound]

Thinks that if your going to spread the gospel then you should teach what the early church taught, which is Acts 2:38. The death burial and resurrection of the LORD JESUS the Christ. Anything other than that and your stepping away from what the very disciples taught.

JESUS gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, which was a revelation. In-turn, Peter used those keys to open the doorway of understanding for us on the day of Pentecost.

If JESUS gave those keys, knowing before hand what Peter would say, don't ya think that it is good enough for us as well? Or are we all more special than Peter?

God views no one better than the other Sister no one we are all the same from God's view point and is why he sent his Son to redeem us if only we will put Faith into God not flesh works

 

[homwardbound]

Probably its the most common response is because it is the truth. I think you are reaching to some mystical meaning that truthfully not there. The scripture that you quote about the bond women is an example of what we Christians often do. we look to to what we can do and not what God can do. Abraham had to do away with self just as we must do and rely totally on God. that is so simple yet so difficult to do.

I thinkyouboth wewre sayinmg the same thing just his was much deeper and I understood it and not to say i or he is more holy or understanding it is no matter what Christ the the Author and finisher of our Faith in Christ forsaking ouresleves amy of our own righteousness as Saul did when he became Paul. It truly is all Christ and none of meor you or you or anyone else
Romans 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

And does it go on to say and are water Babtized as a righteous act of man hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no to everyone that believes
Beleif or unbelief is the only thing left for man to decide whether they believe God or not and if so they shallbe saved by works after or by thae fact that htey beleoived as the Galatians did. How did they recieve the Spirit of God? By works or by Faith?
Does works any works of human flesh make one any better than what God has done by Jesus christ at the cross?
Ephesians 2:8For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

 

[homwardbound]

It is not reaching to see it the way I said as that is the only way that the context indicates it is to be seen. It would be more reaching to see it the way you said which defies the context.

I think that you are probably saying that due to fear put into you by those that use what I have said thus far to scream baptism of the Holy Spirit as what was actually meant and is yet meant, when they have neither let me finish explaining so that they can know the full picture.

That screaming occurs because there is another force at work here which gets excited because the one behind that force knows I am etching closer to the fuller picture with all of you.

Look at what I presented and courageously accept it as the context plainly shows that it is. And ignore those screams. If you will do that I will take you in steps to see what the full picture really is and you will have no doubt that God has revealed it.

Nothing at all mystical required. Don't let that spirit crying mystical which has come through zone and jinx scare you either. All the screams, both saying it is mystical and the screams that it is the baptism by the Holy Spirit are screams of excited utterance by a spirit not calm because it knows I am getting closer and closer to revealing to you what God already has shown me and is showing me, not in any mystical way, but by the spirit which is upon his word.

Work on ignoring all the screams, even the screams of your own fears, and give only those scriptures with their context your trust as I present the. Trust not my word but God's word. And then piece by piece I will be able to show you what I have seen. You have not seen it all yet. none of the screamers have seen it all yet.

To deny the context sets the meaning for what you read is not trusting scripture. Letting the context set the meaning is.

Just take in aht allyou are saying and sift it through our hearts where the Holy Ghost resides and willseperate truth form error,not always caling waht you do not see as error, it might not be time yet for me or you or anyone else tosee any or all truth as of yet. I remember my younger years in retortion and later on God through the hidden man of my heart revealed the truth to me that just set me free and I wa overahelmed with thanksgiving and praise ae King David was when he saw afar off our Lord Christ was a coming to reddem us, and he believed and yelled out
Psalm 100:4Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
And this was before the resurrection of Christ where we recieve the Babtism of the Holt Ghost as a Guiarantee

1. 2 Corinthians 1:22
   who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
   2 Corinthians 1:21-23 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. 2 Corinthians 5:5Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
   2 Corinthians 5:4-6 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. Ephesians 1:14who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
   Ephesians 1:13-15 (in Context) Ephesians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations