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Or rather:
A lot depends upon how we teach the command to go forth into the world and make disciples at places as Matthew 28:19 (and make make no mistake that to make disciples bringing them into the one spirit with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is all Jesus commanded be done there).
For example such things as the humility of the disciples we make depends upon how we teach that.
If we teach it as an authority given us to call men to repent or as an authority given us to call them to baptism, then our focus is wrong and such is what the twisted spirit used as authority to justify inquisitions was founded upon.
Such is a desire for self glorification by means of God's authority and that is what the man of sin does. That is how the son of perdition uses God's authority to make himself appear as God in this earth.
A lot depends upon how we teach the command to go forth into the world and make disciples at places as Matthew 28:19 (and make make no mistake that to make disciples bringing them into the one spirit with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is all Jesus commanded be done there).
For example such things as the humility of the disciples we make depends upon how we teach that.
If we teach it as an authority given us to call men to repent or as an authority given us to call them to baptism, then our focus is wrong and such is what the twisted spirit used as authority to justify inquisitions was founded upon.
Such is a desire for self glorification by means of God's authority and that is what the man of sin does. That is how the son of perdition uses God's authority to make himself appear as God in this earth.
O
Salvation in a nutshell is in 1 John 5:11-12, "And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have God’s Son does not have life."
The plan of salvation is to accept Christ as your savior and repent of your sin. That is salvation according to the word of God. It is not a complicated message and we really shouldn't try to add to it.
The plan of salvation is to accept Christ as your savior and repent of your sin. That is salvation according to the word of God. It is not a complicated message and we really shouldn't try to add to it.
I never glorified myself when I was baptized. Ask my daddy! When he baptized me, I said "Praise Jesus!" and then my mother got all jelly-like. It was glorious! Yes, it can be tempting for some to just "mark it off a list." That goes with any kind of thing that we do like prayers and our daily devotions. Yes, it is tempting to turn them into a chore list. But Not everyone is like that.
Sweat heart, that shows how you sometimes so innocently do not understand. I did not speak of the one being baptized as being the one being glorified of power, but the one baptizing believing this to be as a power of authority given them and by that belief glorifying them self.
And of course if that is what they believe then they will also only teach those they baptize to seek glory to themselves in the same way.
Now that is just how it is.
And of course if that is what they believe then they will also only teach those they baptize to seek glory to themselves in the same way.
Now that is just how it is.
A
It was bound to happen sooner or later... 
But, seriously, Christians will debate all aspects of the Christian life, but it is amazing to me how people can be divisive on the fundamentals of salvation.
But, seriously, Christians will debate all aspects of the Christian life, but it is amazing to me how people can be divisive on the fundamentals of salvation.
I know. A lot of it is the fault of pastors today. The preaching of law, grace and the gospel is rare nowadays. So we are left with many different variations on the Gospel. Or ideas that basically 80% of the people in the Bible (all the Old testament believers) received salvation differently than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So it's literally "another Gospel." when you look at it Biblically, it's a very serious matter.
Crossnote's signature shows what the responsibility given us at Matthew 28:19 is: "Jesus said, ''Bring him to me''. Mark 9:19b"
to = pros, literally "toward"
"Jesus said, ''Bring him toward me''. Mark 9:19b" So that he might enter into<(eis) the name of the Father and the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Spirit where in he can walk in rest.
to = pros, literally "toward"
"Jesus said, ''Bring him toward me''. Mark 9:19b" So that he might enter into<(eis) the name of the Father and the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Spirit where in he can walk in rest.
L
I agree with your statement. That post lays the foundation for others that will follow and is directed at statements that are not correct.
The problem is the play on words of the thread. Necessary in obedience (NIO) vs. Essential "to" Salvation (ETE). Everyone that has spoken concerning NIO never said essential, while the ETE folk says that water has nothing to do with salvation and it did not exist until after the cross; this is not correct and my next post confirms.
The key to the Thread Question is "essential". The key to baptism understanding is the relationship between the two. More important is to understand how baptism "correlates" with "receiving salvation". What makes it just as important, is Jesus said to do it in Acts 10:42; "And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of G-d to be the Judge of quick and dead." Jesus commanded the Apostles to preach, preach what--the Gospel and what comes after his words, the Holy Ghost filled all that heard, then what, commanded them to be baptized.
Perfect example of Necessary vs. Essential. The Apostles acted upon what Jesus commanded them. When they spoke, it is Jesus speaking and what they performed after preaching the Gospel was baptize in water. The gift can only be given by Jesus. 1still_waters statement in a different post addresses this last sentence best.
Now, those that adhere to believing only in the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" can do as Adam and Eve and disobey because they do not believe what G-d said is necessary or they can ignore it according to "their" understanding.
I acknowledge that their is a small faction that believes water baptism is not necessary at all--it is my determination to leave that to the care and judgment of Jesus.
Hebrews 12:14; Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
The problem is the play on words of the thread. Necessary in obedience (NIO) vs. Essential "to" Salvation (ETE). Everyone that has spoken concerning NIO never said essential, while the ETE folk says that water has nothing to do with salvation and it did not exist until after the cross; this is not correct and my next post confirms.
The key to the Thread Question is "essential". The key to baptism understanding is the relationship between the two. More important is to understand how baptism "correlates" with "receiving salvation". What makes it just as important, is Jesus said to do it in Acts 10:42; "And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of G-d to be the Judge of quick and dead." Jesus commanded the Apostles to preach, preach what--the Gospel and what comes after his words, the Holy Ghost filled all that heard, then what, commanded them to be baptized.
Perfect example of Necessary vs. Essential.
The Apostles acted upon what Jesus commanded them. When they spoke, it is Jesus speaking and what they performed after preaching the Gospel was baptize in water. The gift can only be given by Jesus. 1still_waters statement in a different post addresses this last sentence best.Now, those that adhere to believing only in the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" can do as Adam and Eve and disobey because they do not believe what G-d said is necessary or they can ignore it according to "their" understanding.
I acknowledge that their is a small faction that believes water baptism is not necessary at all--it is my determination to leave that to the care and judgment of Jesus.
Hebrews 12:14; Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
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I agree with your statement. That post lays the foundation for others that will follow and is directed at statements that are not correct.
The problem is the play on words of the thread. Necessary in obedience (NIO) vs. Essential "to" Salvation (ETE). Everyone that has spoken concerning NIO never said essential, while the ETE folk says that water has nothing to do with salvation and it did not exist until after the cross; this is not correct and my next post confirms.
The key to the Thread Question is "essential". The key to baptism understanding is the relationship between the two. More important is to understand how baptism "correlates" with "receiving salvation". What makes it just as important, is Jesus said to do it in Acts 10:42; "And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of G-d to be the Judge of quick and dead." Jesus commanded the Apostles to preach, preach what--the Gospel and what comes after his words, the Holy Ghost filled all that heard, then what, commanded them to be baptized.
Perfect example of Necessary vs. Essential. The Apostles acted upon what Jesus commanded them. When they spoke, it is Jesus speaking and what they performed after preaching the Gospel was baptize in water. The gift can only be given by Jesus. 1still_waters statement in a different post addresses this last sentence best.
Now, those that adhere to believing only in the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" can do as Adam and Eve and disobey because they do not believe what G-d said is necessary or they can ignore it according to "their" understanding.
I acknowledge that their is a small faction that believes water baptism is not necessary at all--it is my determination to leave that to the care and judgment of Jesus.
Hebrews 12:14; Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
The problem is the play on words of the thread. Necessary in obedience (NIO) vs. Essential "to" Salvation (ETE). Everyone that has spoken concerning NIO never said essential, while the ETE folk says that water has nothing to do with salvation and it did not exist until after the cross; this is not correct and my next post confirms.
The key to the Thread Question is "essential". The key to baptism understanding is the relationship between the two. More important is to understand how baptism "correlates" with "receiving salvation". What makes it just as important, is Jesus said to do it in Acts 10:42; "And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of G-d to be the Judge of quick and dead." Jesus commanded the Apostles to preach, preach what--the Gospel and what comes after his words, the Holy Ghost filled all that heard, then what, commanded them to be baptized.
Perfect example of Necessary vs. Essential.
The Apostles acted upon what Jesus commanded them. When they spoke, it is Jesus speaking and what they performed after preaching the Gospel was baptize in water. The gift can only be given by Jesus. 1still_waters statement in a different post addresses this last sentence best.Now, those that adhere to believing only in the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" can do as Adam and Eve and disobey because they do not believe what G-d said is necessary or they can ignore it according to "their" understanding.
I acknowledge that their is a small faction that believes water baptism is not necessary at all--it is my determination to leave that to the care and judgment of Jesus.
Hebrews 12:14; Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
In this world we are all very divided concerning authority because we have experienced so much of it's implementation over us through ones having a wicked heart. It is therefore quite easy to begin to feel like we cannot trust any man or woman in a position of authority these days.
And we can clearly see the effect upon the morals of the peoples over whom wicked ones rule as many blindly follow after the attitudes of those in authority over them as Hitler's soldiers did.
What really constitutes a wicked person? Does it require that a person be all bad? No it does not. All it requires is that they believe in their own way and opinions over God's ways and opinions, even if doing so unknown to themselves. For it is easy to believe we love God. But as Jesus told us, it is only the one who keeps his commandments that really does love him.
Therefore I hope that what everyone is trying to do is to become sure of what God commands of them.
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L
OceanGrl is correct. What comes after or before a person believes has no effect on hearing the Gospel, believing, and receiving salvation. This can happen before or after an individual is baptized in water. Receiving salvation is all in faith to hearing the Gospel. Following through with water baptism is not work as you think, it is obedience to the Word. Water baptism is an antecedent to the "Death, Burial, and Resurrection" of Jesus. Despite what many believe, the water baptism that is recorded in the Book of Acts is not the first baptism to occur in this fashion/process.
Antecedent definition:
Noun
A thing or event that existed before or logically precedes another.
Adjective
Preceding in time or order; previous or preexisting.
Synonyms
previous - prior - preceding - foregoing - anterior
The First Baptism of Water Point To Christ:
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5] But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
No, if by works then the Cross is of none effect. This faith without works scripture was written to those that already had received salvation and thought that no works applied continued where working for the kingdom of G-d is concerned. Jesus referred these works to producing fruit. I will stop here because it is not my intent to derail the Thread.
Please do not confuse salvation with works. Please be careful with this, it is very important for anyone that loves the Lord to understand this. Jesus did all the work on the cross for us and by His stripes we are healed. Now that is a rejoicing moment.
Shalom with the fullness of its meaning.
Antecedent definition:
Noun
A thing or event that existed before or logically precedes another.
Adjective
Preceding in time or order; previous or preexisting.
Synonyms
previous - prior - preceding - foregoing - anterior
The First Baptism of Water Point To Christ:
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5] But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
No, if by works then the Cross is of none effect. This faith without works scripture was written to those that already had received salvation and thought that no works applied continued where working for the kingdom of G-d is concerned. Jesus referred these works to producing fruit. I will stop here because it is not my intent to derail the Thread.
Please do not confuse salvation with works. Please be careful with this, it is very important for anyone that loves the Lord to understand this. Jesus did all the work on the cross for us and by His stripes we are healed. Now that is a rejoicing moment.
Shalom with the fullness of its meaning.