Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[livingepistle]

UMM Does it ever cross anyone's mind the reason Peter said that baptism saves,is because it goes hand in hand with faith?
That being baptized IS AN ACT OF FAITH? It's faith in action. One believes and obeys,it's not rocket science. Jesus said do it,if you believe Him you will do it out of obedeince and love.

And obedience is not nearly as easy as you make it.
Do you have faith in Jesus Christ? Have you sinned in this pas week?

A-O has caught hold of the south end of a northbound burro. (metaphor)

In support of SarahM777:

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Salvation folks in summary according to the Word of G-d. Not false doctrine.



Sarah keep preaching truth. A-O fits the allegory of Don Quixote; he is tilting at windmills.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Can we all agree that baptism is essential for salvation on the basis that:

(1) It shows an attitude of humility

(2) It shows love for others as well as God in that to not be so baptized in water is stumbling to so many

(3) It is an active profession of faith

On that basis I humbly recant it if I have ever said it is not necessary.

Have I ever said it is not necessary, though?

I may have, and if I did, then I admit I was wrong.

 

[A-Omega]

Sarah keep preaching truth. A-O fits the allegory of Don Quixote; he is tilting at windmills.

This coming from someone who said David was "baptized" by taking a ritual bath every time he went into the temple. Even though David WAS DEAD before the temple was ever built.

I am just exposing Biblical error. If you choose to continue in it that's your prerogative. But your own attitude exposes your pride. This is the problem with "internet Christianity" today. It has become such a battle of "I must be right!" that even when you make a blatant, flagrant Biblical inaccuracy (David going into the temple) you won't even acknowledge it but instead obfuscate.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

This coming from someone who said David was "baptized" by taking a ritual bath every time he went into the temple. Even though David WAS DEAD before the temple was ever built.

I am just exposing Biblical error. If you choose to continue in it that's your prerogative. But your own attitude exposes your pride. This is the problem with "internet Christianity" today. It has become such a battle of "I must be right!" that even when you make a blatant, flagrant Biblical inaccuracy (David going into the temple) you won't even acknowledge it but instead obfuscate.

Yes, that would be a misrepresentation of what David was doing.

I agree with you.

Or do I?

 

[livingepistle]

Since I will be gone all day I just want to clairfy my objections to Living epistle and everyone else preaching the works-based salvation.

1. Abraham, Moses and David - Just list the verses that detail their baptism.

2. Explain how they were saved.


It's just this simple. There has only been one Gospel from the foundation of the world: faith in Jesus Christ. The covenants were God's contracts with humanity to bring the Gospel to fruition. The old covenant, or mosaic, passed away in John 19. When the New Covenant was instituted it required a signature. The Abrahamic covenant sign was circumcision. The new covenant sign is baptism. Baptism has replaced circumcision as the entry sign into the New Covenant. It's just that simple. Baptism does not save nor have any supernatural power. Just as Abraham was saved before being circumcised. It is just our signature to the covenant we have entered into with The Lord. This is why the thief on the cross was saved without baptism.

Preaching that baptism is necessary for salvation or that Old testament believers were saved in some other manner is a FALSE GOSPEL. That is the only reason I have been so persistent in refuting it. It is only out of a concern for God's Word and the souls of those who may read a false Gospel and be misled. Jesus Christ did everything necessary for salvation. We only need believe. God bless.

Please answer the question with scripture or just answer with a yes or no:Is Moses and the Hebrew baptized or not?

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5] But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

 

[jinx]

Moses did not get dunked die and come back to life the egyptians got dunked and died the same with Noah, they were not Babtised by water they were Babtised by Faith in God and lived. By Faith one is saved all through out the word this is truth, please let's quit mixing flesh works and the Spirit of God it is clear that we are to be born again by the Spirit of God and that God is the one that does this not man ever.

HOMIE your eliminating scripture that doesn't bode well with your "teachings"!!!!! you cannot pick and chose which scripture is indeed scripture!!!!!!

If the bible says they got baptized in the red sea then GUESS WHAT!!!!! THEY GOT BAPTIZED IN THE RED SEA!!!!

 

[jinx]

And God does do this Sister, I repeat God is the one that does this not us at all, but we can perform all we want if we do God does not accept fleshly works, because God has by Christ
Romans 8:3

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

what form of obedience do you show GOD homie????

what do you do in your life to show obedience?

 

[willfollowsGod]

True, but baptism in water, is not necessary for salvation. It is a public display to the world and the body of Christ, that person is now to be known as a Christian and is a symbol of dying and rising from the dead like the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So being baptized with water does not save, only Jesus Christ saves. So those baptized in the Holy Spirit are saved from faith in Christ but if they are not baptized with water, it does not mean they are not saved. Just an observation. God bless.

 

[livingepistle]

If JESUS commanded us to be water baptized which HE did, then we better do it or we are in SIN!!!!

Jinx, enough seed is planted and they that believe only, leave them to their own end. Jesus lives. A-O won't get off easy though he still won't answer the question concerning;

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5] But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

i shared these scriptures with Sarah and you might find them useful:

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Much brotherly love to you.

 

[jinx]

OBEDIENCE IN NECESSARY FOR SALVATION, IF GOD SAYS DO IT, THEN DO IT OR DIE IN YOUR SIN!!!!!

 

[livingepistle]

True, but baptism in water, is not necessary for salvation. It is a public display to the world and the body of Christ, that person is now to be known as a Christian and is a symbol of dying and rising from the dead like the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So being baptized with water does not save, only Jesus Christ saves. So those baptized in the Holy Spirit are saved from faith in Christ but if they are not baptized with water, it does not mean they are not saved. Just an observation. God bless.

My point to this entire Thread is that Salvation is much more expansive than what is being stated by the "believe only" pendents. Just a FYI look research the definition of salvation then check out this Site and see what you think: http://www.theopedia.com/Salvation.

Only scripture is used and opinion is stated as opinion and I am not promoting it just saying it may be useful.

 

[livingepistle]

[/B][/COLOR]LOL. Isn't it interesting that you keep speaking about Moses' "water baptism' but you do not even cite the actual verses from Exodus or provide any explanation of it??

Let's go to the text and see:
"
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left." - Exodus 14.


This was not a water baptism. Moses was not literally immersed. This would be obvious to a 1st grader reading this sentence. So when Paul is referencing the "baptism of Moses", clearly it cannot be a literal water baptism in view.

So let's go to Paul's text:

"Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [SUP]2 [/SUP]And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted."

So now the "baptism unto Moses" is the same as being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? No. Of course note. It is a type and shadow of the baptism in Jesus' name. Moses is a type of Christ. The Israelites, in their faith, followed Moses through the Red Sea. All this is just a picture of salvation through faith in Christ.

Hence Paul saying in verse 6, "these things were our examples." He did not say "now you must literally do these things to be saved. We don't have to part the red sea or go up in a cloud to be baptized. You are taking a type and trying to make it into Christ. Once again, people are here clinging to the shadow. Instead of looking to the real Jesus Christ.







[/B][/COLOR]Okay, so now you are claiming that you were literally buried with Christ when you were baptized? This still is not metaphorical language??? Wow.


[/COLOR]
I don't even get your point here.



Considering David was dead before the temple was completed, I don't think he was doing a mikveh before going in. lol.

I honestly don't understand what your point it. If you are trying to prove through Scripture that baptism has salvation power or some supernatural effect, you have not done so.

If you are trying to show that Abraham, Moses and David were baptized you have not shown that either.

LOL and you won't answer the question.

 

[jinx]

Homie, what do you do when you sin in your own personal life? say you lied about someone else (that's a sin) what is the thing you do in order to be in good standing with GOD?

 

[livingepistle]

This coming from someone who said David was "baptized" by taking a ritual bath every time he went into the temple. Even though David WAS DEAD before the temple was ever built.

I am just exposing Biblical error. If you choose to continue in it that's your prerogative. But your own attitude exposes your pride. This is the problem with "internet Christianity" today. It has become such a battle of "I must be right!" that even when you make a blatant, flagrant Biblical inaccuracy (David going into the temple) you won't even acknowledge it but instead obfuscate.

Now it is one thing to disagree, but to lie, now you can get real blinded. You need a Damascus Road experience. I stated the priests represented the nation of Israel (Levitical Priesthood); Mikveh/Mikvah; Brazen Sea. Now if you keep lying, I have to put some serious prayer on you. One more lie, and it's on.....

The Tabernacle was built before David was born. And it was kept and utilized by the Priests for sacrifices and other rituals until Solomon built the permanent structure. Up and unto that time the “Wilderness” Tabernacle was used. I will prove this by using the NT words spoken by Jesus when answering the liars and hypocrites of his time; i.e., Pharisees.

Matthew 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?


The 5th verse (temple) is a synonomous use for house of G-d:

1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

1 Samuel 21:6 So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.

Tabernacle and Temple are synonymous. Everyone that has gone through Kindergarten Sunday School knows this.
You are wrong again. It is hard to kick against the "pointy things". LOL Now apologize to the entire Thread audience and know that I have forgiven you already. "This is Agape In Action"

Sarah keep preaching truth. A-O fits the allegory of Don Quixote; he is tilting at windmills.[/B]

View attachment 49612

The Obfuscating Stupidity of Don Quixote Tilting At Windmills
Thinking Himself a Hero of the Kingdom All Because He Would Not Listen To Reason

 

[A-Omega]

Now it is one thing to disagree, but to lie, now you can get real blinded. You need a Damascus Road experience. I stated the priests represented the nation of Israel (Levitical Priesthood); Mikveh/Mikvah; Brazen Sea. Now if you keep lying, I have to put some serious prayer on you. One more lie, and it's on.....

The Tabernacle was built before David was born. And it was kept and utilized by the Priests for sacrifices and other rituals until Solomon built the permanent structure. Up and unto that time the “Wilderness” Tabernacle was used. I will prove this by using the NT words spoken by Jesus when answering the liars and hypocrites of his time; i.e., Pharisees.

Matthew 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?


The 5th verse (temple) is a synonomous use for house of G-d:

1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

1 Samuel 21:6 So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.

Tabernacle and Temple are synonymous. Everyone that has gone through Kindergarten Sunday School knows this.
You are wrong again. It is hard to kick against the "pointy things". LOL Now apologize to the entire Thread audience and know that I have forgiven you already. "This is Agape In Action"



The Obfuscating Stupidity of Don Quixote Tilting At Windmills
Thinking Himself a Hero of the Kingdom All Because He Would Not Listen To Reason

oh, so you meant tabernacle when you said "temple." Riiiiiight. LOL.

 

[A-Omega]

LOL and you won't answer the question.

see, just like Jinx, in the face of actual Biblical exposition, IN CONTEXT, not just throwing verses around willy nilly, you have to just mock.

Ok, so I assume your question is were Moses and the Israelites baptized in the Red Sea. And my answer is that they were symbolically baptized. It was a type and shadow.

Do you even realize what happened to the baptized Israelites who you think got their salvation through water immersion?

"
[SUP]9 [/SUP]When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." - Hebrews 3.

So for all that water in the Red Sea that was baptizing them, they were punished for their unbelief. So what did the magic water you are touting do for them?


It is impossible for OT patriarchs to be baptized. I will only explain this once more to you because I have no obligation beyond two times to do so. Baptism is an entry sign in THE NEW COVENANT. Abraham, Moses and David were dead before the New Covenant was inaugurated by Jesus Christ. You think taking a ritual bath is the same thing - it's not. You do not understand the law, the covenants or the Gospel. This is why you are putting all the emphasis on everything but faith in Jesus Christ. Which is the only way to salvation.

All your points you are making are skirting the main issue. Either baptism is essential for salvation or its not. If you are saying it is essential, you are preaching a false gospel and are a heretic. Period. And if you are not saying it's essential, then more power to you.

Keep relying on your works and what you are doing to please and impress God and you will just sink into deeper and deeper error.

 

[jinx]

***Whistles a tune as she strolls through the recent post in this thread***

 

[jinx]

Did I just hear someone take my name in vain?

 

[jinx]

A-Omega..... It isn't that I can't answer you, It's the simple fact that I have already answered you and you refuse to accept my answer, after a rebuke or two. So What's the point of me even answering ANYTHING you ask of me?

If I wanted a silent conversation with someone, I'd talk with my dog.

 

[livingepistle]

Yes, that would be a misrepresentation of what David was doing.

I agree with you.

Or do I?

The tabernacle was built before David was born. And it was kept and utilized by the Priests for sacrifices and other rituals until Solomon built the permanent structure; including "immersion of their bodies in water before performing anything to do with daily works unto the LORD". Up and unto that time the “wilderness” tabernacle was used.

Matthew 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

The 5th verse (temple) is a synonomous use for house of G-d:
1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

1 Samuel 21:6 So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.
Tabernacle and Temple are synonymous. Everyone that has gone through Kindergarten Sunday School knows this.
You agreed with a false teacher of the Gospel. He is in error.

I never said David was in the Temple baptizing, he ate the show bread and fled into exile. I haven't said anything, the Word is speaking.