Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?

[Graybeard]

[h=2]Re: Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?[/h]for sure, many prophesies testify to the fact.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

It isn't what I think, but what the Word of God says. I could find and quote a lot of prophecy, after all, 1/3 of the Bible is Prophecy and about 9/10th is unfulfilled.

Jeremiah 16:14-15 - "Therefore behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "that it shall no more be said, `The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,' but, `The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them.' For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers.

Jer 30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

Jer 30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

Jer 33:7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.

Isaiah 66:7-8 - "Before she was in labor, she gave birth; before her pain came, she delivered a male child. Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children."

Ezekiel 37:16-17 - "As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: 'For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.' Then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.' "Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand."
​

Ezekiel 37:21-22 - "Then say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again."​

God will restore the land to Israel

Mark Twain visited Israel in the 1860's and wrote about it in his book "Innocents Abroad". He reported that Israel was a barren wasteland with no trees. Almost 2000 years of foreign conquerors had abused the land having no respect for it. Today there are over 400 million trees in Israel and rainfall has increased over 450% since the beginning of this century.

Isaiah 35:1-2 - The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them, and the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose; It shall blossom abundantly and rejoice, even with joy and singing. The glory of Lebanon shall be given to it, the excellence of Carmel and Sharon. They shall see the glory of the LORD, the excellency of our God.


​

<i>[video=youtube;ydwxy9yqhzM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydwxy9yqhzM[/video]

​

 

[RedTent]

There you are misapplying scripture to make it appear what I said is wrong. God loves man, of course he does but he will not bless corruption with incoruption as your not Biblical and definitely unlawful premises imply.

1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

you are running out of ammunition but keep hurling your non-Biblical missiles, by all means until you do.

And regardless of how you try to rationalize faith, what it does is born of a man's spirit out of love, rather than just as a work of the flesh.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

In 1 Cor. it is talking about the death of the fleshly body, in 1 Cor. 15:49 it says :And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust, we will also bear the image of the heavenly man.

So when we are talking this out I am "hurling non-biblical missiles". Do I use a gun? Oh my. Could be we shouldn't discuss this, it is only arguing and that is not what we are here to do. We SHOULD be able to talk! Hurling missiles!!!!

The study of what the bible is talking about when it says "works of the flesh" is not that everything we do as a mortal man is corrupt. It takes understanding about grace, obedience, what Christ does for us, law, and love.

If you were right about your "fleshly" "corruption" then the beautiful Grand Canyon, the Alps, many things would not be God's doing but part of corruption. We are born in sin, but we have the HS within us, too.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

In 1 Cor. it is talking about the death of the fleshly body, in 1 Cor. 15:49 it says :And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust, we will also bear the image of the heavenly man.

So when we are talking this out I am "hurling non-biblical missiles". Do I use a gun? Oh my. Could be we shouldn't discuss this, it is only arguing and that is not what we are here to do. We SHOULD be able to talk! Hurling missiles!!!!

The study of what the bible is talking about when it says "works of the flesh" is not that everything we do as a mortal man is corrupt. It takes understanding about grace, obedience, what Christ does for us, law, and love.

If you were right about your "fleshly" "corruption" then the beautiful Grand Canyon, the Alps, many things would not be God's doing but part of corruption. We are born in sin, but we have the HS within us, too.

There you go again dancing around what the Old law says instead of hearing it.

Man's flesh and all of it's so-called rights with it, is what that Old law justly condemned for it's unholiness.

We makes ourselves hypocrites if on one hand we claim that Christ upholds the spirit of that Old Law as the righteousness of God and then seek to claim back rights for that flesh in what Christ has done.

And worse, we make Christ out to be a violator of that Old law rather than to have fulfilled that Old Law, if we now claim that in any way he gave that condemned flesh back it's rights by what he has done for us.

What Christ has done is credited life to our spirit by love and that the Old law did not condemn.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.



You need to free yourself of bias so you can see these things. I will always come away victorious over what you say because I have no preference and am willing to accept the truth whether which way the scriptures tell me it is. And that makes me free to actually see what the scriptures say, so that what I say is not my own word but God's.

Stop fighting the spirit of truth which is what your being biased one way or the other causes you to do. Be completely willing in yourself to accept it as God shows it truthfully is or you will remain blind.

And if you do remain blind you have no one to blame but yourself. And you know what the end of it will be.

 

[crossnote]

You are blowing smoke out of the emotions of your flesh. Stop and calm your spirit to think.

You know the real truth, that Jesus had no fleshly father.

Clear evidence then that his being related back to David through Joseph (his step-father) was purely to identify him as that seed of promise by the spirit of faith.

For their promises did not pass through their women but by the natural birth father's implanted seed.


Human birth passes human flesh. That flesh was unholy and dead since Adam, and thus as God cannot reward that which is unholy, unholiness having no place in his presence, then God looked to find a modicum of faith in man, by a right spirit in each man which he could declare clean and able to be rewarded. But in Jesus, that sinful flesh was not passed as God was his true and only Father.

I believe you sideskirted my point. Was Jesus truly man? Did He take on true humanity and it's inherited weakness, sin excepted? Was He born a true man as well as being true God? (We can do without the insults)

 

[crossnote]

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(Rom 11:28-29)

This is obviously speaking about natural Israel. Yet we see that the gifts (promise of land amongst other things) are without repentance, or as the ESV translates it 'irrevocable'. Spiritualize and allegorize all you want but Israel belongs to the Jews...if not actualized now, then soon.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I believe you sideskirted my point. Was Jesus truly man? Did He take on true humanity and it's inherited weakness, sin excepted? Was He born a true man as well as being true God? (We can do without the insults)

You mean I sidetracked the adder's poison of personal opinion which you use to replace the truth of God's words as a subtle bite upon the innocent who might just not know better than to believe you?


From the thread:
[h=2]Who's Lying? God? Or Man?[/h]

Abraham lived in a land of idol worshippers and there is no reason to believe he did otherwise until God revealed Himself to Abraham. Where do you get this term 'right spirit of faith'?
I get my example of Abraham acting in the flesh vs by promise in Galatians 4:22-31
So I am not rationalizing truth away but neither am I making it up.

Noah found grace in God's eyes, as did Abel, as did Enoch, as did all who God ever set apart. Always it was their faith which came to speak for them to God first.

 

[crossnote]

You mean I sidetracked the adder's poison of personal opinion which you use to replace the truth of God's words as a subtle bite upon the innocent who might just not know better than to believe you?


From the thread:
Who's Lying? God? Or Man?



Noah found grace in God's eyes, as did Abel, as did Enoch, as did all who God ever set apart. Always it was their faith which came to speak for them to God first.

Again was that true of Paul at his call?
Call me an adder all you want zzzzz

 

[kardiaoangelous]

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(Rom 11:28-29)

This is obviously speaking about natural Israel. Yet we see that the gifts (promise of land amongst other things) are without repentance, or as the ESV translates it 'irrevocable'. Spiritualize and allegorize all you want but Israel belongs to the Jews...if not actualized now, then soon.

It is irrevocable to the spirit of faith to which the promises were given. Not to the flesh because it never was given to the flesh.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

All obtained the promises in this same way: Hebrews 11:33 "Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

 

[crossnote]

You mean I sidetracked the adder's poison of personal opinion which you use to replace the truth of God's words as a subtle bite upon the innocent who might just not know better than to believe you?


From the thread:
Who's Lying? God? Or Man?



Noah found grace in God's eyes, as did Abel, as did Enoch, as did all who God ever set apart. Always it was their faith which came to speak for them to God first.

I noticed you have used the following tactic before that amounts to this-your opinion is God's Word whereas the other's is only personal opinion. hmmm interesting

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Again was that true of Paul at his call?
Call me an adder all you want zzzzz

You are what you are but what you speak is personal opinion which is as the poison of an adder for any who speak such. We cannot properly educate others with personal opinion and therefore to use it in teaching the Bible can only be as an adder's poison.

Paul had a deep love for God which was attributed as that beginner's faith and he acted purely with a sincere lack of understanding. That faith is in God to begin with and how dare you say Paul did not have that. You are so blind.

Paul had faith but as Romans 10:1-4 shows, Paul did not yet have epignosis, that more complete understanding so as to know what he was doing that actually was against God.

I am trying to help you advance to epignosis if you but would.

 

[crossnote]

It is irrevocable to the spirit of faith to which the promises were given. Not to the flesh because it never was given to the flesh.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

All obtained the promises in this same way: Hebrews 11:33 "Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Please reread Romans passage, it is irrevocable because of election and it is God who promised.
'' but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.''

Do you see them as beloved? God does.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Please reread Romans passage, it is irrevocable because of election and it is God who promised.
'' but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.''

Do you see them as beloved? God does.

You just have to have it your own way don't you? Why do that to yourself? Pay attention to Paul if you are going to claim to know what he taught:

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

 

[crossnote]

You are what you are but what you speak is personal opinion which is as the poison of an adder for any who speak such. We cannot properly educate others with personal opinion and therefore to use it in teaching the Bible can only be as an adder's poison.

Paul had a deep love for God which was attributed as that beginner's faith and he acted purely with a sincere lack of understanding. That faith is in God to begin with and how dare you say Paul did not have that. You are so blind.

Paul had faith but as Romans 10:1-4 shows, Paul did not yet have epignosis, that more complete understanding so as to know what he was doing that actually was against God.

I am trying to help you advance to epignosis if you but would.

Sorry, I left off gurus back in the '70's.

The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
(1Ti 1:15)

For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
(1Co 15:9-10)

So anyways you can continue believing that God chooses us because He see a little bit of good (merit) in us. Yes, that is not your opinion but Jacob Arminius. All I ask is that you stop talking down to us as if you are some lofty spiritual intellectual. If you are I haven't seen it yet,

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Sorry, I left off gurus back in the '70's.

The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
(1Ti 1:15)

For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
(1Co 15:9-10)

So anyways you can continue believing that God chooses us because He see a little bit of good (merit) in us. Yes, that is not your opinion but Jacob Arminius. All I ask is that you stop talking down to us as if you are some lofty spiritual intellectual. If you are I haven't seen it yet,

Do you really think that sinners cannot have faith? If you do who could ever have faith of mankind? The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Faith is of a man's spirit, not of a man's flesh.

An idol worshiper as you accused Abram of being, cannot be having faith in his spirit toward the true God.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Even while persecuting the church through ignorance Paul yet had faith in God.

Paul had a deep love for God which was attributed as that beginner's faith and he acted purely with a sincere lack of understanding. That faith is in God to begin with and how dare you say Paul did not have that. You are so blind.

Paul had faith but as Romans 10:1-4 shows, Paul did not yet have epignosis, that more complete understanding so as to know what he was doing that actually was against God.

Don't you listen?

 

[crossnote]

Do you really think that sinners cannot have faith? If you do who could ever have faith of mankind? The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Faith is of a man's spirit, not of a man's flesh.

An idol worshiper as you accused Abram of being, cannot be having faith in his spirit toward the true God.

Faith comes by hearing (as with Abraham) and hearing by the Word. Faith is birthed out of a promise of God. If no promise then no faith. It requires a promise. God gave Abraham a promise...Abraham believed and went out. Easy

 

[crossnote]

Even while persecuting the church through ignorance Paul yet had faith in God.

Paul had a deep love for God which was attributed as that beginner's faith and he acted purely with a sincere lack of understanding. That faith is in God to begin with and how dare you say Paul did not have that. You are so blind.

Paul had faith but as Romans 10:1-4 shows, Paul did not yet have epignosis, that more complete understanding so as to know what he was doing that actually was against God.

Don't you listen?

Right, Paul had a love for God as he went out murdering God's children. Rather he had a love for a man made system, he didn't know God. Luther as a monk later confessed 'I didn't love God, I hated him'...but that's another story.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Faith comes by hearing (as with Abraham) and hearing by the Word. Faith is birthed out of a promise of God. If no promise then no faith. It requires a promise. God gave Abraham a promise...Abraham believed and went out. Easy

Faith come by hearing what? The word of God, right? Abraham had to have a right heart to have such faith.

I believe it is properly called a meek heart.

Not an idol worshipers heart.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Right, Paul had a love for God as he went out murdering God's children. Rather he had a love for a man made system, he didn't know God. Luther as a monk later confessed 'I didn't love God, I hated him'...but that's another story.

You are a stubborn mule. God is going to visit you shortly. And it will not be to say hello.

Enjoyed conversing with you while it was yet possible.