Trinity
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I understand your confusion. It can be ( and is ) a complex topic. However - I will try to use a construct that I came up with so that I could understand it.
When we look at the bible, we see the reality of God as US:
"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth,” (Gen. 1:26, NASB).
"Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever," (Gen. 3:22, NASB).
“Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech,” (Gen. 11:7, NASB).
"Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!” (Isaiah 6:8, NASB)
So, in these four verses we see God as US, a plurality, more than one. We know that the US are not angels - as angels do not have creative ability. (Gen. 1:26)
Here's what I came up with, for myself. Each of us, is a trinity in the sense that we a ~group~ of three things. A mind, a body and a spirit (soul). So, for me anyway, we, being created by God, parallel God. If you look at the Godhead as Father (mind) - Jesus (body) - Holy Spirit (spirit), we can see ourselves. No, we are not ~divine~, merely reflections of our creator. So, as we can lose a limb or limbs, that does not make us ~not human~, just not whole. Additionally, we can suffer trauma which would put us in a vegatative state, essentially, or mind is separate from us for a time. Again, this does not make us not human, we are still human but diminished.
God, being God, can be what He wishes when He wishes. If Jesus is away from the Godhead (as when He came to earth) it does not diminish the reality of the Godhead any more than when Jesus sent the comforter (Holy Spirit) to us. God will still be God, fully and complete.
"They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the tress of the garden (Gen. 3:8, NASB).
For me, Truth52513, this was Jesus. He has been there with us from the start and will be with us until we are once again reunited with Him (and the Godhead) in heaven.
As a disclaimer, Truth52513, I am NOT a biblical scholar in any way, shape or form. This is, as I said, merely a ~construct~ that I came up with to help me in understanding the concept of the trinity. Hopefully, it will help you and not confuse you further.
God Bless Brother
Cavil
When we look at the bible, we see the reality of God as US:
"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth,” (Gen. 1:26, NASB).
"Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever," (Gen. 3:22, NASB).
“Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech,” (Gen. 11:7, NASB).
"Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!” (Isaiah 6:8, NASB)
So, in these four verses we see God as US, a plurality, more than one. We know that the US are not angels - as angels do not have creative ability. (Gen. 1:26)
Here's what I came up with, for myself. Each of us, is a trinity in the sense that we a ~group~ of three things. A mind, a body and a spirit (soul). So, for me anyway, we, being created by God, parallel God. If you look at the Godhead as Father (mind) - Jesus (body) - Holy Spirit (spirit), we can see ourselves. No, we are not ~divine~, merely reflections of our creator. So, as we can lose a limb or limbs, that does not make us ~not human~, just not whole. Additionally, we can suffer trauma which would put us in a vegatative state, essentially, or mind is separate from us for a time. Again, this does not make us not human, we are still human but diminished.
God, being God, can be what He wishes when He wishes. If Jesus is away from the Godhead (as when He came to earth) it does not diminish the reality of the Godhead any more than when Jesus sent the comforter (Holy Spirit) to us. God will still be God, fully and complete.
"They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the tress of the garden (Gen. 3:8, NASB).
For me, Truth52513, this was Jesus. He has been there with us from the start and will be with us until we are once again reunited with Him (and the Godhead) in heaven.
As a disclaimer, Truth52513, I am NOT a biblical scholar in any way, shape or form. This is, as I said, merely a ~construct~ that I came up with to help me in understanding the concept of the trinity. Hopefully, it will help you and not confuse you further.
God Bless Brother
Cavil
He stated that the Gospel writers believed in the Trinity.How is this possible when the Trinity Doctrine was not composed until the 5th century. And the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible. Here is an article on that.
The Trinity concept was foreign to the early Church and did not emerge until the third and fourth centuries. Through time this "doctrine of Christ" has developed into a theology meaning something different from that which was held by John and the entire early Church.
In the fourth century, under Constantine (A.D. 325), the Nicene, or Semi-Trinitarian concept, was forged making Jesus and God one in substance. Then in the fifth century, the Athanasian, or Trinitarian Creed, came along, adding the holy Spirit, to complete the Trinity doctrine. Though called the Athanasian Creed, it is now generally admitted to have been composed by some other person. It is noteworthy that the word Trinity nowhere appears in the Bible. More importantly, the early Church debates of the Apostolic Era were centered on keeping newly converted Gentiles from being brought under the Jewish law. There were no ongoing debates on whether Jesus and God were two persons in one. Yet since the early Christian Church was mostly Jewish, any deviation from the "Lord our God is one Lord" foundation would have taken enormous discussion
Please understand that I'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm a Christian that has a different undertanding of the scriptures. I believe we must prove all things by the scriptures.
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1Th 5:21)
The Trinity concept was foreign to the early Church and did not emerge until the third and fourth centuries. Through time this "doctrine of Christ" has developed into a theology meaning something different from that which was held by John and the entire early Church.
In the fourth century, under Constantine (A.D. 325), the Nicene, or Semi-Trinitarian concept, was forged making Jesus and God one in substance. Then in the fifth century, the Athanasian, or Trinitarian Creed, came along, adding the holy Spirit, to complete the Trinity doctrine. Though called the Athanasian Creed, it is now generally admitted to have been composed by some other person. It is noteworthy that the word Trinity nowhere appears in the Bible. More importantly, the early Church debates of the Apostolic Era were centered on keeping newly converted Gentiles from being brought under the Jewish law. There were no ongoing debates on whether Jesus and God were two persons in one. Yet since the early Christian Church was mostly Jewish, any deviation from the "Lord our God is one Lord" foundation would have taken enormous discussion
Please understand that I'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm a Christian that has a different undertanding of the scriptures. I believe we must prove all things by the scriptures.
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1Th 5:21)
Truth52513:
Please understand that I'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm a Christian that has a different undertanding of the scriptures. I believe we must prove all things by the scriptures.
I am not upset Truth52513, but your original question has been responded to:
Truth52513:
Will someone please explain the trinity to me? I do not understand the verses the same way you do.
If you choose not to believe in the Trinity, that's your choice.
Take care.
Please understand that I'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm a Christian that has a different undertanding of the scriptures. I believe we must prove all things by the scriptures.
I am not upset Truth52513, but your original question has been responded to:
Truth52513:
Will someone please explain the trinity to me? I do not understand the verses the same way you do.
If you choose not to believe in the Trinity, that's your choice.
Take care.
Here is another article clip about that famous verse John 1:1. Maybe the most discussed verse in the bible...
"If the translation were a matter of substituting words, a possible translation . . . would be, 'The Word was a god.' As a word-for-word translation it cannot be faulted, and to pagan Greeks who heard early Christian language, Theos en o Logos, might have seemed a perfectly sensible statement. . . . The reason why it is unacceptable is that it runs counter to the current of Johannine thought, and indeed of Christian thought as a whole."1
Please note their observation that, as a word-for-word translation, "it cannot be faulted." As a matter of fact, in Acts 12:22 (Herod's voice is a god's voice) and Acts 28:6 (Paul is called a god), the translators supplied the article "a" to the word theos in both instances. They just happen to think this would be contrary to John's thought in John 1:1. That is a very subjective conclusion.
John 1:1, 2 reads: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [ton, the] God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with [ton, the] God." A word-for-word Greek rendering of John 1:1, 2 is: "In [a] beginning [arche] was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and [a] God was the Word. This was in [a] beginning with the God." Trinitarians tried to level the field by leaving out the article (ton) "the." In the King James, as in many other translations, all references to God are equal to the English reader. You do not get the contrast between the emphasized God spoken of twice and the unemphasized God referring to the Logos.
Yet consider how later in this chapter (John 1:18), in the same context, a clear distinction is drawn between these Gods apart from mere grammatical emphasis: "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten god, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." (New American Standard Bible, Marshall Interlinear, etc.) Clearly, there is a "begotten God" and a begetter "God." Hence, John 1:1 must be understood in a manner that harmonizes with this verse.
To be convincing, the Trinitarian must prove that "God" in John 1:1 has supreme signification in all three of its uses. We quote from an orthodox Trinitarian, Dr. G. C. Knapp: "It (the appellation Logos, here translated Word), signifies, among the Jews and other ancient people, when applied to God, every thing by which God reveals Himself to men, and makes known to them His will. In this passage the principal proof does not lie in the word Logos ('revealer of God'), nor even in the word theos ('God'), which, in a larger sense, is often applied to kings and earthly rulers, but to what is predicated of the Logos."2
Using such reasoning, is it possible to prove Jesus is the supreme God from this passage? Does the passage in fact say that the Logos God has parity with the God? Without parity, he cannot be the God, nor can he be one-third God. What beginning is John talking about? God has no beginning or end, for He is "from everlasting to everlasting" (Psa. 90:2). So what "beginning" is the Logos identified with? Rev. 3:14 supplies the answer: "The Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [arche] of the creation of the [ton] God."
Some say that the word "beginning" (arche) is rendered "principality(ties), magistrates, at the first, first estate, corners," etc. and that this gives Rev. 3:14 a different meaning. Whether our Lord was the beginning, first, or principal "creation of God," how would that change his being a created being before all others? In the King James, the Apostle John's use of the word arche is consistently translated "beginning." In the Appendix we submit every usage of arche in the New Testament by John and other New Testament writers as listed in The Englishman's Concordance. Please note its uses and how "beginning" is an appropriate translation. It is only because translators have seen the threat this poses to the Trinity that they have labored to change the intent of that word in this verse.
But, let us assume that the Trinitarians are correct on John 1:1. Let us presume the Logos was Jehovah (or Yahweh God). What is John then telling? If John believed the Logos was the God of Moses, why would John say the "Logos was with God, and the Logos was God"? What God was the Logos with? Why place a mark on eternity and say that was the beginning and the Logos was there? If he really wanted to prove the Logos was God, he should have said, "See this mark. It is the beginning. Now, the Logos was here before that beginning as the God, for He was the God." To place the Logos at the mark called beginning and not before the "beginning" weakens their whole position.
The following texts delineate this truth—that God always existed and that a beginning in time is associated only with the Logos:
God "from everlasting to everlasting." Ps. 90:2
Christ Jesus "in the beginning was the Word . . ." John 1:1
"The Lord created me at the beginning of his work." Prov. 8:22, RSV
Furthermore, John 1:1 could not be a proof of the Trinity, for no mention is made of the holy Spirit. That is most embarrassing when the key scripture to the whole Trinity concept omits one-third of the Trinity. Therefore, whatever John 1:1 proves, it does not mention the holy Spirit, and it fails to provide the third part necessary to support the Trinity. Trinitarians have combed through the Bible using every possible text to prove their point. In the overwhelming majority of texts used, you find them doing the same thing as in John 1:1, using arguments that God and Jesus are one, hoping we will not notice that none of their proof verses include the third part necessary — the holy Spirit. The idea is to get people so involved in the discussion that they will forget the holy Spirit is not mentioned. Therefore, the debate lacks the third part needed for rational proof. In order to prove the Trinity doctrine, it is necessary to find Biblical statements of the oneness of being of Father, Son and holy Spirit. Even if we could prove the Father and Son were one being, would it give us a Trinity?
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord." (Isa. 1:18, KJV)
God Bless Brothers Thank You for the open discussion.
..."If the translation were a matter of substituting words, a possible translation . . . would be, 'The Word was a god.' As a word-for-word translation it cannot be faulted, and to pagan Greeks who heard early Christian language, Theos en o Logos, might have seemed a perfectly sensible statement. . . . The reason why it is unacceptable is that it runs counter to the current of Johannine thought, and indeed of Christian thought as a whole."1
Please note their observation that, as a word-for-word translation, "it cannot be faulted." As a matter of fact, in Acts 12:22 (Herod's voice is a god's voice) and Acts 28:6 (Paul is called a god), the translators supplied the article "a" to the word theos in both instances. They just happen to think this would be contrary to John's thought in John 1:1. That is a very subjective conclusion.
John 1:1, 2 reads: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [ton, the] God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with [ton, the] God." A word-for-word Greek rendering of John 1:1, 2 is: "In [a] beginning [arche] was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and [a] God was the Word. This was in [a] beginning with the God." Trinitarians tried to level the field by leaving out the article (ton) "the." In the King James, as in many other translations, all references to God are equal to the English reader. You do not get the contrast between the emphasized God spoken of twice and the unemphasized God referring to the Logos.
Yet consider how later in this chapter (John 1:18), in the same context, a clear distinction is drawn between these Gods apart from mere grammatical emphasis: "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten god, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." (New American Standard Bible, Marshall Interlinear, etc.) Clearly, there is a "begotten God" and a begetter "God." Hence, John 1:1 must be understood in a manner that harmonizes with this verse.
To be convincing, the Trinitarian must prove that "God" in John 1:1 has supreme signification in all three of its uses. We quote from an orthodox Trinitarian, Dr. G. C. Knapp: "It (the appellation Logos, here translated Word), signifies, among the Jews and other ancient people, when applied to God, every thing by which God reveals Himself to men, and makes known to them His will. In this passage the principal proof does not lie in the word Logos ('revealer of God'), nor even in the word theos ('God'), which, in a larger sense, is often applied to kings and earthly rulers, but to what is predicated of the Logos."2
Using such reasoning, is it possible to prove Jesus is the supreme God from this passage? Does the passage in fact say that the Logos God has parity with the God? Without parity, he cannot be the God, nor can he be one-third God. What beginning is John talking about? God has no beginning or end, for He is "from everlasting to everlasting" (Psa. 90:2). So what "beginning" is the Logos identified with? Rev. 3:14 supplies the answer: "The Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [arche] of the creation of the [ton] God."
Some say that the word "beginning" (arche) is rendered "principality(ties), magistrates, at the first, first estate, corners," etc. and that this gives Rev. 3:14 a different meaning. Whether our Lord was the beginning, first, or principal "creation of God," how would that change his being a created being before all others? In the King James, the Apostle John's use of the word arche is consistently translated "beginning." In the Appendix we submit every usage of arche in the New Testament by John and other New Testament writers as listed in The Englishman's Concordance. Please note its uses and how "beginning" is an appropriate translation. It is only because translators have seen the threat this poses to the Trinity that they have labored to change the intent of that word in this verse.
But, let us assume that the Trinitarians are correct on John 1:1. Let us presume the Logos was Jehovah (or Yahweh God). What is John then telling? If John believed the Logos was the God of Moses, why would John say the "Logos was with God, and the Logos was God"? What God was the Logos with? Why place a mark on eternity and say that was the beginning and the Logos was there? If he really wanted to prove the Logos was God, he should have said, "See this mark. It is the beginning. Now, the Logos was here before that beginning as the God, for He was the God." To place the Logos at the mark called beginning and not before the "beginning" weakens their whole position.
The following texts delineate this truth—that God always existed and that a beginning in time is associated only with the Logos:
God "from everlasting to everlasting." Ps. 90:2
Christ Jesus "in the beginning was the Word . . ." John 1:1
"The Lord created me at the beginning of his work." Prov. 8:22, RSV
Furthermore, John 1:1 could not be a proof of the Trinity, for no mention is made of the holy Spirit. That is most embarrassing when the key scripture to the whole Trinity concept omits one-third of the Trinity. Therefore, whatever John 1:1 proves, it does not mention the holy Spirit, and it fails to provide the third part necessary to support the Trinity. Trinitarians have combed through the Bible using every possible text to prove their point. In the overwhelming majority of texts used, you find them doing the same thing as in John 1:1, using arguments that God and Jesus are one, hoping we will not notice that none of their proof verses include the third part necessary — the holy Spirit. The idea is to get people so involved in the discussion that they will forget the holy Spirit is not mentioned. Therefore, the debate lacks the third part needed for rational proof. In order to prove the Trinity doctrine, it is necessary to find Biblical statements of the oneness of being of Father, Son and holy Spirit. Even if we could prove the Father and Son were one being, would it give us a Trinity?
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord." (Isa. 1:18, KJV)
God Bless Brothers Thank You for the open discussion.
No Brother Megaman125 I believe our Jesus was exactly who he said he was and the scriptures say he was. Our Savior Our Messiah Our King Our Teacher The son of the most high God!!! Here are some scriptures to prove that.
All the citations are from the King James Bible.
Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." (Many saw Jesus' face and lived; therefore, how could Jesus be God?) Compare John 5:36.
Psalms 110:1 "The Lord [Yahweh or Jehovah] said unto my [David's] Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." (We note here that the instructions were given by the Father [Jehovah] to the Son [David's Lord]; this order is never reversed in Scripture, with the Father always preeminent. See p. 7 for comments on Matt. 22:42-43, wherein Jesus discourses with the Jews on the meaning of Ps. 110:1.)
Proverbs 8:22-30 "The Lord possessed [created, see Strong's] me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: when he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: when he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him." See Rev. 3:14.
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [El, Strong's, #410, 'strength, mighty, Almighty,' applicable 'to any deity'], The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." (Christ is appropriately called "Father" from the standpoint of his becoming the second Adam—lifegiver to the race—and "source of eternal salvation" (1 Cor. 15:47; Heb. 5:9). Christ is no longer a branch (receiver) but the "root" (giver of life) in the regeneration (Rev. 22:16; Matt. 19:28).
Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (God does not give His glory to another. In contrast, Jesus invites the saints to share his glory as a bride.) See Romans 6:3-6; 8:17, 18; Col. 3:4; 1 John 3:2.
Dan. 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."
Matt. 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (We note that it was the Father, speaking from heaven, who indicated His good pleasure in His Son upon the earth. Jesus always strove to be pleasing to his Father, to carry out His will, and to receive His commendation and approval. The Scriptures never reverse this relationship, always giving the Father the preeminence.)
Matt. 4:1 "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." (James 1:13 states "God cannot be tempted!") See Luke 4:1, 2, 13.
Matt. 10:40 "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
Matt. 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matt 17:5 "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
Matt. 18:10 "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."
Matt. 20:23 "And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup . . . but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." (Jesus lacked authority in this matter.)
Matt. 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (This demonstrates that God and Jesus are not equal in knowledge!) See also John 7:16; 12:50; 17:8.
Matt. 26:39 "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." (This verse implies Jesus had one will and his Father had another. Two different wills imply two different beings!) See also Matt. 26:42; John 5:19-22.
Matt. 27:46 "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, La-ma sa-bach-tha-ni? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ( If Jesus were God . . . had he forsaken himself? Is this logical? Clearly, Jesus was speaking to another being, his Father.)
Matt. 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Jesus was given power not previously possessed.)
Mark 1:24 "What have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God." (The unclean spirit knew Jesus was not God but rather the Holy One of God.)
Mark 12:36 "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost [Spirit], The Lord [Jehovah] said to my [David's] Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Hebrews 1:13 identifies the Lord Jesus as the one who sits on the right hand of the Lord God.)
Luke 2:49 "And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"
Luke 2:52 "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (How and why should Jesus increase in favor with himself?)
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son [many manuscripts read "only begotten God"], which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (The following verses confirm that Jesus died for our sins! Rom. 5:10; Romans 14:9; Acts 3:15; Col. 1:15, 18; Rev. 1:5, 18; 1 Tim. 2:5; 1 John 4:9, 14; Rev. 5:9)
John 3:34, 35 "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."
John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself."
John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (Jesus was seeking another being's will—not his own!)
John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."
John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (Two wills—two beings.)
John 7:16-18 "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."
John 8:17-19 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." (Note there was no third witness—only the Father and the Son. Jesus omits the holy Spirit. Why?)
John 8:42-44 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
John 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (Note John 17:21, 22.) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (This would have been the perfect place to state that he was, indeed, God the Father.)
John 14:1 "Ye believe in God, believe also in me." (An unnecessary injunction for those who believe in the Trinity.)
John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (Would this make Jesus' disciples a part of the Trinity? Shown here is the oneness of the family of God—not a oneness of person, but oneness of purpose and will.) Compare John 17:21-22.
John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (How can the Father be greater than Jesus, if Jesus and his Father are equal? Admittedly, some Trinitarians recognize Christ was inferior in flesh. Even so, then his sacrifice on the cross was less than God. How could Jesus in flesh be "co-equal" with God?) See 1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3.
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
John 17:11 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." (If Christ's true followers are to be "one" as are God and Jesus, could that oneness be anything more than "oneness" of purpose and will? Could we be a part of the Trinity? See also John 17:21-23.)
John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." (Jesus had a God and brethren. God has no God and no brethren!) See Eph. 1:17; Rev. 3:12; Mark 15:34; 1 Cor. 15:24 (Rotherham's).
Acts 3:15 "And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses." (Isn't it logical to conclude the one that was dead is separate from the One who raised him from the dead?) See 1 Cor. 15:12-21; Acts 2:24; 5:30; 7:56; 13:34 and Col. 2:12.
Acts 7:55, 56 "But he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Ghost [Spirit], looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." (God and Jesus are twice depicted separately. Stephen was "full of the Holy Spirit" but did not see the holy Spirit. God and Jesus were not everywhere either, but Jesus was "standing on the right hand of God" in heaven.)
Acts 12:22 "And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god [theos], and not of a man." (King Herod was referred to as "[a] god"— "a" is supplied by translators and is not in the text. This is the same Greek word for god [theos] which in other places is used of Christ. It is defined as "gods, objects of worship, judges," and is used variously to depict Jehovah, Satan, the saints, and idols, as well as Christ.) See also Acts 28:6—in reference to Paul.
Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost [Spirit] hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (God is a Spirit and Spirits do not have flesh and blood [Luke 24:39]. Rotherham reads: "With the blood of his own [son]"; Revised Standard Version, footnote: "With the blood of his own son"; Barclay: "At the price of the blood of his own One.") See also Marshall's Diaglott and Concordant.
Rom. 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." See Rom. 4:24; 7:4.
Rom. 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ." (Could Christ be his own heir? How, then, could we be joint-heirs with him?)
Rom. 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
Rom. 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
1 Cor. 8:5, 6 "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (All things are OF the Father and BY the son. Jesus is the agent of God.) Compare Heb. 1:1, 2; John 1:2, 3; Col. 1:16, 17; Gen. 1:26.
1 Cor. 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (God, Christ, man and woman are all separate entities.)
1 Cor. 15:27, 28 "For he [God] hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he [God] is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [God] that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (These verses distinguish two separate beings: namely, the Father and His son. How could God place all things under His feet to subdue all things, and then later become subject to Himself? This defies reason.)
Eph. 1:20-22 "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church."
Eph. 3:9, 10 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God." (If Jesus was God incarnate, what possible reason would God have had to create all things from the beginning of time by Jesus Christ?)
Eph. 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (One God and Father of "all"—the "all" includes Jesus.)
Philip. 2:5, 6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." (Revised Standard Version: "Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." Can anyone try to be equal with himself? Rather, Jesus did not strive by vainglory to grasp God's preeminence.)
Philip. 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death." (If Jesus were God, who would God have to become obedient to? No one! Therefore, this must be another entity, namely, his only begotten Son, clearly distinguishable from the Heavenly Father.)
Col. 1:13-17 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
1 Tim. 2:5-6 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (A mediator is one who endeavors to reconcile two opposing parties. Could Christ be God and still mediate between God and men? Ransom here means a "corresponding price." How could a God-man be the exact equivalent of the perfect man Adam?)
1 Tim. 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God [hos, who] was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." (Nearly all ancient MSS, and all the versions have "He who," [referring to Christ] instead of "God," in this passage. Sir Isaac Newton wrote a paper stating that this verse is a false reading. The Concordant Bible, p.18: "In the Sinaitic there can be no doubt that it originally read 'who.' A late corrector has added 'God' above the line.")
Heb. 1:2-5 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" (If Jesus was God, how could he have "by inheritance obtain[ed] a more excellent name?" Clearly, one does not inherit that which he already possesses!)
Heb. 1:8, 9 "But unto the Son he [the Father] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy [Jesus'] God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (What "fellows" was Jesus anointed above? Two Gods are involved here—the greater, Yahweh, anointing the lesser, Jesus. This exaltation of Jesus takes place after he demonstrates he "loved righteousness" and "hated iniquity." No one contests that Jesus is a God. Remember, the greater always anoints the lesser, as is here demonstrated.)
Heb. 2:10 "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (God the Father has always been perfect and did not require the experience of suffering to crystallize His character. Jesus, by way of contrast, did require this development.)
All the citations are from the King James Bible.
Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." (Many saw Jesus' face and lived; therefore, how could Jesus be God?) Compare John 5:36.
Psalms 110:1 "The Lord [Yahweh or Jehovah] said unto my [David's] Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." (We note here that the instructions were given by the Father [Jehovah] to the Son [David's Lord]; this order is never reversed in Scripture, with the Father always preeminent. See p. 7 for comments on Matt. 22:42-43, wherein Jesus discourses with the Jews on the meaning of Ps. 110:1.)
Proverbs 8:22-30 "The Lord possessed [created, see Strong's] me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: when he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: when he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him." See Rev. 3:14.
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [El, Strong's, #410, 'strength, mighty, Almighty,' applicable 'to any deity'], The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." (Christ is appropriately called "Father" from the standpoint of his becoming the second Adam—lifegiver to the race—and "source of eternal salvation" (1 Cor. 15:47; Heb. 5:9). Christ is no longer a branch (receiver) but the "root" (giver of life) in the regeneration (Rev. 22:16; Matt. 19:28).
Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (God does not give His glory to another. In contrast, Jesus invites the saints to share his glory as a bride.) See Romans 6:3-6; 8:17, 18; Col. 3:4; 1 John 3:2.
Dan. 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."
Matt. 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (We note that it was the Father, speaking from heaven, who indicated His good pleasure in His Son upon the earth. Jesus always strove to be pleasing to his Father, to carry out His will, and to receive His commendation and approval. The Scriptures never reverse this relationship, always giving the Father the preeminence.)
Matt. 4:1 "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." (James 1:13 states "God cannot be tempted!") See Luke 4:1, 2, 13.
Matt. 10:40 "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
Matt. 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matt 17:5 "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
Matt. 18:10 "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."
Matt. 20:23 "And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup . . . but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." (Jesus lacked authority in this matter.)
Matt. 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (This demonstrates that God and Jesus are not equal in knowledge!) See also John 7:16; 12:50; 17:8.
Matt. 26:39 "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." (This verse implies Jesus had one will and his Father had another. Two different wills imply two different beings!) See also Matt. 26:42; John 5:19-22.
Matt. 27:46 "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, La-ma sa-bach-tha-ni? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ( If Jesus were God . . . had he forsaken himself? Is this logical? Clearly, Jesus was speaking to another being, his Father.)
Matt. 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Jesus was given power not previously possessed.)
Mark 1:24 "What have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God." (The unclean spirit knew Jesus was not God but rather the Holy One of God.)
Mark 12:36 "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost [Spirit], The Lord [Jehovah] said to my [David's] Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Hebrews 1:13 identifies the Lord Jesus as the one who sits on the right hand of the Lord God.)
Luke 2:49 "And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"
Luke 2:52 "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (How and why should Jesus increase in favor with himself?)
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son [many manuscripts read "only begotten God"], which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (The following verses confirm that Jesus died for our sins! Rom. 5:10; Romans 14:9; Acts 3:15; Col. 1:15, 18; Rev. 1:5, 18; 1 Tim. 2:5; 1 John 4:9, 14; Rev. 5:9)
John 3:34, 35 "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."
John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself."
John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (Jesus was seeking another being's will—not his own!)
John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."
John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (Two wills—two beings.)
John 7:16-18 "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."
John 8:17-19 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." (Note there was no third witness—only the Father and the Son. Jesus omits the holy Spirit. Why?)
John 8:42-44 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
John 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (Note John 17:21, 22.) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (This would have been the perfect place to state that he was, indeed, God the Father.)
John 14:1 "Ye believe in God, believe also in me." (An unnecessary injunction for those who believe in the Trinity.)
John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (Would this make Jesus' disciples a part of the Trinity? Shown here is the oneness of the family of God—not a oneness of person, but oneness of purpose and will.) Compare John 17:21-22.
John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (How can the Father be greater than Jesus, if Jesus and his Father are equal? Admittedly, some Trinitarians recognize Christ was inferior in flesh. Even so, then his sacrifice on the cross was less than God. How could Jesus in flesh be "co-equal" with God?) See 1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3.
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
John 17:11 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." (If Christ's true followers are to be "one" as are God and Jesus, could that oneness be anything more than "oneness" of purpose and will? Could we be a part of the Trinity? See also John 17:21-23.)
John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." (Jesus had a God and brethren. God has no God and no brethren!) See Eph. 1:17; Rev. 3:12; Mark 15:34; 1 Cor. 15:24 (Rotherham's).
Acts 3:15 "And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses." (Isn't it logical to conclude the one that was dead is separate from the One who raised him from the dead?) See 1 Cor. 15:12-21; Acts 2:24; 5:30; 7:56; 13:34 and Col. 2:12.
Acts 7:55, 56 "But he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Ghost [Spirit], looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." (God and Jesus are twice depicted separately. Stephen was "full of the Holy Spirit" but did not see the holy Spirit. God and Jesus were not everywhere either, but Jesus was "standing on the right hand of God" in heaven.)
Acts 12:22 "And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god [theos], and not of a man." (King Herod was referred to as "[a] god"— "a" is supplied by translators and is not in the text. This is the same Greek word for god [theos] which in other places is used of Christ. It is defined as "gods, objects of worship, judges," and is used variously to depict Jehovah, Satan, the saints, and idols, as well as Christ.) See also Acts 28:6—in reference to Paul.
Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost [Spirit] hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (God is a Spirit and Spirits do not have flesh and blood [Luke 24:39]. Rotherham reads: "With the blood of his own [son]"; Revised Standard Version, footnote: "With the blood of his own son"; Barclay: "At the price of the blood of his own One.") See also Marshall's Diaglott and Concordant.
Rom. 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." See Rom. 4:24; 7:4.
Rom. 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ." (Could Christ be his own heir? How, then, could we be joint-heirs with him?)
Rom. 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
Rom. 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
1 Cor. 8:5, 6 "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (All things are OF the Father and BY the son. Jesus is the agent of God.) Compare Heb. 1:1, 2; John 1:2, 3; Col. 1:16, 17; Gen. 1:26.
1 Cor. 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (God, Christ, man and woman are all separate entities.)
1 Cor. 15:27, 28 "For he [God] hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he [God] is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [God] that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (These verses distinguish two separate beings: namely, the Father and His son. How could God place all things under His feet to subdue all things, and then later become subject to Himself? This defies reason.)
Eph. 1:20-22 "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church."
Eph. 3:9, 10 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God." (If Jesus was God incarnate, what possible reason would God have had to create all things from the beginning of time by Jesus Christ?)
Eph. 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (One God and Father of "all"—the "all" includes Jesus.)
Philip. 2:5, 6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." (Revised Standard Version: "Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." Can anyone try to be equal with himself? Rather, Jesus did not strive by vainglory to grasp God's preeminence.)
Philip. 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death." (If Jesus were God, who would God have to become obedient to? No one! Therefore, this must be another entity, namely, his only begotten Son, clearly distinguishable from the Heavenly Father.)
Col. 1:13-17 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
1 Tim. 2:5-6 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (A mediator is one who endeavors to reconcile two opposing parties. Could Christ be God and still mediate between God and men? Ransom here means a "corresponding price." How could a God-man be the exact equivalent of the perfect man Adam?)
1 Tim. 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God [hos, who] was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." (Nearly all ancient MSS, and all the versions have "He who," [referring to Christ] instead of "God," in this passage. Sir Isaac Newton wrote a paper stating that this verse is a false reading. The Concordant Bible, p.18: "In the Sinaitic there can be no doubt that it originally read 'who.' A late corrector has added 'God' above the line.")
Heb. 1:2-5 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" (If Jesus was God, how could he have "by inheritance obtain[ed] a more excellent name?" Clearly, one does not inherit that which he already possesses!)
Heb. 1:8, 9 "But unto the Son he [the Father] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy [Jesus'] God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (What "fellows" was Jesus anointed above? Two Gods are involved here—the greater, Yahweh, anointing the lesser, Jesus. This exaltation of Jesus takes place after he demonstrates he "loved righteousness" and "hated iniquity." No one contests that Jesus is a God. Remember, the greater always anoints the lesser, as is here demonstrated.)
Heb. 2:10 "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (God the Father has always been perfect and did not require the experience of suffering to crystallize His character. Jesus, by way of contrast, did require this development.)
Your in good company Jinx , Jesus and the Apostles did not believe in the Trinity either. It's false Docterine developed in the 3rd 4th and 5th century. I believe it breaks the heart and infuriates our Messiah because it takes away from the Glory of his father God Almighty the creator of Jesus or The Logos at that time. Jesus only has one will to serve the will of the Father for eternity and to say he is the Father. Is and insult to him and the father. Here is a clipping from an article on that...
Jesus did not go about declaring he was the "Christ" or the "Anointed One." He did not encourage his disciples to do so. Jesus inquired, "Who do men say that the son of man is" (Matt. 16:13-20)? The answers were: Elijah, Jeremiah or one of the prophets. Nothing very dramatic, was it? Nobody guessed he was the "Christ"—much less God. No!—not even His disciples. Jesus asked, "Who do you say that I am?" Peter's answer pleased our Lord—"You are the Christ [Anointed], the Son of the living God." That was correct. Only by the aid of the holy Spirit was Peter able to speak thus.
But notice what the holy Spirit did not suggest: It did not imply Jesus was God—not even the vaguest hint of it. The holy Spirit owed us the truth, and it gave us the truth. "You are the Christ [Anointed], the Son of the living God." They were then charged, "Tell no one." If denied from presenting Jesus as the Christ, would they present Jesus as God? Did the holy Spirit tell Peter a half-truth about the Christ?
The "doctrine of Christ" is: Jesus is the "Anointed" One. The Jews knew only priests, kings and some prophets were anointed, and it was strictly forbidden to make or use the special "holy anointing oil" improperly (Ex. 30:31-33). Jesus was not a Levite and, therefore, could not be of the Levitical Priesthood. He was, however, of David's line and could be anointed "King." Before his death, Jesus rode into Jerusalem saying, "Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king is coming to you" (Matt. 21:5-16).
In Jesus' last encounter with the Pharisees, he asked: "What do you think of Christ? Whose son is he?" They knew Christ (Messiah, the Anointed) was spoken of as the Son of David and that David looked for a son he would call Lord. They answered: "The son of David." Jesus said, "How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls him Lord" (Matt. 22:42, 43, RSV)? We ask: Did David believe he would father a son who would be God himself? Would he father God? Certainly not! David, through the Spirit, was showing that the Messiah of promise would be born of David's royal line and, by faithfully laying down his life as the ransom price, would be raised as Lord of both the living and the dead. (See Rom. 14:9.) This would be the Father's reward for His son Christ Jesus, to enable him to carry out his great future work as Judge and Mediator in the Millennial Kingdom.
If the doctrine of Christ meant Jesus was God, the holy Spirit failed to make this known. The title "Anointed" is never applied to God. That would be a sacrilege. The greater always anoints the lesser. God is above all. He anoints, but is not anointed—nor can He be. We repeat: God is never called anointed! Never ever! It would be a grave impropriety to do so.
But see thats wherr your getting it wrong jesus never says he is the fwther an the idea of the trinity doesnt place him as being the fwther... there is God the father God the son an God the holy spirit three seperate slices of one cake..wn tell me if Jesus isnt God than what exwctly do you think he is a man?? Thats not possible because a man could have never been a perfact sacrfice because man is flawed... on top of that in genisies the bible dosent say in my imaige it says in our image meani g more than one being hence God an christ.