Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[homwardbound]

So do we just ignore these passages?


Romans 6
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin;how can we live in it any longer?3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Colossians 2

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[b] was put off when you were circumcised by[c] Christ,12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 3

19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all,were saved through water,21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

How does get around that verse or the verses above that? It doesn't seem to be baptism by the Holy Spirit. So what baptism are they referring to?

As you well posted scripture there symblolizes water babtism a symbol just as the law was a symbol true babtism is Holy Ghost and all those scriptures do not say it to be water Babtism nor does it say Holy Ghost either. Yet John said he only Babtized with water and Christ does with the Holy Ghost and we today are after the death and resurrection of christ in a new covenant under the laws of love under a new priest in the order of Melichisadek.

So if John the Babtist is correct and I suspect he spoke truth that his water Babtism must decrease and Christ's must increase that John's was only water and for repentance not new life, and Chirst's was and is for new life then I am concluding by scripture that we are today babtized through belief in God by the way of the cross of Christ, death first which really is Babtism of the Holy Ghost with fire that we agree to die to self and thus by God to be raised as God already has done his only begotten Son as Romans 6 states.
Not dis agreeing with water Babtism as a good conscious towards God not at all, I am saying whether one gets babtized by water and if water only then there is no new life in that person.
anyway to each their own, thanking God for everything he already did for all that will beleive God and excercise trust in his finished work at the cross, where new life is given by him no other way for Chirst is the way, the truth and the life

and this scripture that just continuously is ignored
Acts 1:5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

So did the new Babtism come or not without water, is John's water Babtism differant from Holy ghost Babtism?
You decide

 

[homwardbound]

OMGOSH
this is unbelievable.

are you called by te self same and one Spirit of God, are you born again by the Holy Ghost, as peter was?
So tellme since he was born again evidence of such on the day of Pentecost could he revert back tohis flesh and be disobedient and yet still loved by God, and not to take this grace for granted either.
So tell d oyou makje mistakes orjust tellothers they are and you aren't, I am weary of you, and thank you for me tobe aware of your fleshly problems crowding out God's love,as you so well disguise
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God does just love you anyway hoping for you to recieve the Holy Ghost babtism

 

[homwardbound]

may God have mercy on you.

God has had Mercy on the entire world, not all have recieved it, have you? just asking and please tell who Christ is

 

[homwardbound]

so, people who have been saved by grace through faith and in that moment receive the gift, the seal of the Holy Spirit, then presumably shortly thereafter as an act of faith are baptized in the Name of the Father of the Son and of the Holy Spirit are acting righteous, aren't born again etc etc.....why again?

oh..because they are learning to stop sinning, and confess their sins when they do.
right?

you totally mis read that, please read again Water Babtism gets one to work in the energy of their own flesh, it is no ,more than being born of the flesh
[h=3]John 3:5-6[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

There is a distinct differance is their not?

 

[zone]

are you called by te self same and one Spirit of God, are you born again by the Holy Ghost, as peter was?
So tellme since he was born again evidence of such on the day of Pentecost could he revert back tohis flesh and be disobedient and yet still loved by God, and not to take this grace for granted either.
So tell d oyou makje mistakes orjust tellothers they are and you aren't, I am weary of you, and thank you for me tobe aware of your fleshly problems crowding out God's love,as you so well disguise
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God does just love you anyway hoping for you to recieve the Holy Ghost babtism

i'm sorry if you are weary of me hom.
that's they way it goes i guess.
you're posting everything from A to Z and don't appear to be taking responsibility for what you say from one day to the next.

as for hoping i receive the 'Holy Ghost Baptism', if you're talking about that THING that happens to Pentecostals...NO THANK YOU.

Is Peter God? did Peter still need growth to truth? Was Peter a look good guy, wanting to be accepted by others instead of just God? Did Peter worry a lot about what others thought of him? Did Peter get used to Water Babtizing as he did a lot while walking with Jesus? So tihs new tradition that had never been done before or was this ever taught to him to do, was now doing and was bewildered by the Holy Ghost coming on ot those that just beleived did not knwo how toreact and said well then being brought up under law had to put this on them as well and get water Babtized, just as he started to have the gentiles be like the Jews that Paul rebuked him for Gal 2
Anyway there is still a differance between Spiritual Baptism and water. John baptized with water Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Which one gives life?

you said these demeaning things about Peter as a DEFENSE of your belittling and rebellion against the simple Christian act of being baptized. to make it seem that he needed to grow up in the Lord and stop commanding water baptism!

Re: Is baptism Essential for salvation?

this title is loaded and is part of the problem.

you believe in a theological system known as Acts 2 dispensationalism (Pauline only doctrine).
it's filled with errors.
i would have thought of you early on that you wanted to know error if it was there.
now i'm not so sure.

 

[zone]

you totally mis read that, please read again Water Babtism gets one to work in the energy of their own flesh, it is no ,more than being born of the flesh
John 3:5-6

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the water is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

There is a distinct differance is their not?

you read it again with the change and tell me if that's what it says.

you are in very serious error.
the church has baptized christians IN WATER for 2000 years.
but some of you Holy Ghost Baptism fanatics know better.

water baptism is of the flesh?
IS IT SIN?

maybe people who do not believe baptism is an act of faith shouldn't baptized - for them it would be SIN.


Romans 14:23
But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


faith - pistis - is a gift from God.
that faith, by the working of the Spirit, and working in us guides us to ACT IN FAITH.

guess which act we are commanded to perform IN FAITH?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When I got saved I didn't believe water baptism was necessary. I lived together with some other (non-conventional) brothers. One of them got involved with the Church of Christ, became obsessed with water baptism, and insisted that we get baptized. I said OK because I wasn't against water baptism; I was willing to do anything to please GOD. So I got baptized; no big deal. I'm glad I did. I don't understand the requirement to be baptized, but I really don't have to. A compliant heart doesn't rebel.

 

[livingepistle]

Yep and tha tis talking about our fleshly works
Philippians 3:2Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh.
Philippians 3:3For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh
Philippians 3:4though I myself have reasons for such confidence. If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:


Okay so let us give up all our fleshly works then and have God take over and ask God to do in us what we try to do in ourselves and just can't cut the mustard. But God can for God not only wants to live in you but more importantly through you
Food to think about Ask God and listen real close the is a personal relationship between God and you

You still haven't answered the question but that is okay because the word of truth is planted into your mind so somewhere at some time it will germinate and enlighten you.

 

[jinx]

Pastor Anthony Mangun preaches Salvation like Peter preached on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38.

[video=youtube_share;E4EdYhAq954]http://youtu.be/E4EdYhAq954[/video]

 

[Kerry]

you read it again with the change and tell me if that's what it says.

you are in very serious error.
the church has baptized christians IN WATER for 2000 years.
but some of you Holy Ghost Baptism fanatics know better.

water baptism is of the flesh?
IS IT SIN?

maybe people who do not believe baptism is an act of faith shouldn't baptized - for them it would be SIN.


Romans 14:23
But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


faith - pistis - is a gift from God.
that faith, by the working of the Spirit, and working in us guides us to ACT IN FAITH.

guess which act we are commanded to perform IN FAITH?

Wow, such hostility against the free gift of the Holy Spirit. Only one thing can oppose that. I don't think that Pentecostals are leading people astray from the cross. I think that they are pointing people to the cross . Why the hostility? I wonder.
Yes the just live by faith, faith in His word. Lets see I think it was Peter or maybe Paul not sure, but he came across some believers and ask if they had received the Holy Spirit. They said we know not of such a thing. They prayed and received the gift of the Holy Spirit. I believe it is Acts. I will look and see. But how did he know that they had received?

 

[homwardbound]

i'm sorry if you are weary of me hom.
that's they way it goes i guess.
you're posting everything from A to Z and don't appear to be taking responsibility for what you say from one day to the next.

as for hoping i receive the 'Holy Ghost Baptism', if you're talking about that THING that happens to Pentecostals...NO THANK YOU.



you said these demeaning things about Peter as a DEFENSE of your belittling and rebellion against the simple Christian act of being baptized. to make it seem that he needed to grow up in the Lord and stop commanding water baptism!

Re: Is baptism Essential for salvation?

this title is loaded and is part of the problem.

you believe in a theological system known as Acts 2 dispensationalism (Pauline only doctrine).
it's filled with errors.
i would have thought of you early on that you wanted to know error if it was there.
now i'm not so sure.

So you are not born again and you walk by flesh, as is so well seen, I am in prayer for you, thank you for the exposure and I am not here to do any fighting as this what you somehow tend to lead it to, and that is okay and very tricky in God's time you shall be exposed as you are already, I am not offended and can take what ever is thrown at me, I expect it, and do not care to fight Scripture has been posted and it is up to each to decide truth from error. For those that are in bondage, you might want to reconsider your truth if you are in bondage, because only the truth sets one free, any error intruth taints the wster glass, just one drop of ink, and keeps one in bondage Praying for God to show truth to those that do believe and those that do not hoping they will come to truth, God just love you, shown to us all via the cross

 

[homwardbound]

you read it again with the change and tell me if that's what it says.

you are in very serious error.
the church has baptized christians IN WATER for 2000 years.
but some of you Holy Ghost Baptism fanatics know better.

water baptism is of the flesh?
IS IT SIN?

maybe people who do not believe baptism is an act of faith shouldn't baptized - for them it would be SIN.


Romans 14:23
But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


faith - pistis - is a gift from God.
that faith, by the working of the Spirit, and working in us guides us to ACT IN FAITH.

guess which act we are commanded to perform IN FAITH?

Hoping God toopen up your blindness and begin to see with your Spiritual eyes that he wants to give you, but you need a contrite heart first and just plainly want to knoiw God, this is what God actually would like form you Zone
[h=3]"Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."[/h]

 

[homwardbound]

You still haven't answered the question but that is okay because the word of truth is planted into your mind so somewhere at some time it will germinate and enlighten you.

Please post it again then I missed it somehow and do not know what the ? is you say you asked. I am always open to the word of truth from God and not man. The fight is between flesh and Spirit and there is a distinct seperation of flesh ans Spirit written all through out the epistles, One brings death and the other life. No other way about it. I do not promote flesh at all because all sin has been condemed to flesh
[h=3]Romans 8:3[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

 

[notuptome]

you read it again with the change and tell me if that's what it says.

you are in very serious error.
the church has baptized christians IN WATER for 2000 years.
but some of you Holy Ghost Baptism fanatics know better.

The Jews baptized in water long before the Christians. Quite a number of washings are prescribed in the law.

water baptism is of the flesh?
IS IT SIN?

Perhaps better understood that it contains natural elements.

maybe people who do not believe baptism is an act of faith shouldn't baptized - for them it would be SIN.


Romans 14:23
But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


faith - pistis - is a gift from God.
that faith, by the working of the Spirit, and working in us guides us to ACT IN FAITH.

guess which act we are commanded to perform IN FAITH?

It would be sin for unsaved folks to receive water baptism reserved only for believers. To create a situation where someone may come to believe that water baptism saves from sin is clearly wrong and in direct conflict with all that is said about Gods wonderful grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jinx]

I guess no one was interested in the Rev. stoneking preaching about baptism. ok.

 

[bob_w]

there is NO water on the face of this earth that can save you!! Unless you are dieing of thirst!! End of















1

 

[sonjohn]

The Jews baptized in water long before the Christians. Quite a number of washings are prescribed in the law.
Perhaps better understood that it contains natural elements.
It would be sin for unsaved folks to receive water baptism reserved only for believers. To create a situation where someone may come to believe that water baptism saves from sin is clearly wrong and in direct conflict with all that is said about Gods wonderful grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

A sin for who? The unbeliever? I hardly think that matters to them. Anyway, I thought that was the root of this entire thread. I could be wrong. I think it is clearly wrong only for those who believe it is not essential. Those that believe that water baptism, according to the posts in this thread, is a part of salvation, believe baptism is harmonious with everything written. However you fall on this, one thing is sure; It is written.

 

[homwardbound]

1. Ecclesiastes 1:2
   Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
   Ecclesiastes 1:1-3 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. Ecclesiastes 1:14I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
   Ecclesiastes 1:13-15 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. Ecclesiastes 2:17Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
   Ecclesiastes 2:16-18 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4. Ecclesiastes 2:19And who knoweth whether he shall be a wise man or a fool? yet shall he have rule over all my labour wherein I have laboured, and wherein I have shewed myself wise under the sun. This is also vanity.
   Ecclesiastes 2:18-20 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
5. Ecclesiastes 2:23For all his days are sorrows, and his travail grief; yea, his heart taketh not rest in the night. This is also vanity.
   Ecclesiastes 2:22-24 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
6. Ecclesiastes 3:19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
   Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
7. Ecclesiastes 4:4Again, I considered all travail, and every right work, that for this a man is envied of his neighbour. This is also vanity and vexation of spirit.
   Ecclesiastes 4:3-5 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
8. Ecclesiastes 4:8There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail.
   Ecclesiastes 4:7-9 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
9. Ecclesiastes 4:16There is no end of all the people, even of all that have been before them: they also that come after shall not rejoice in him. Surely this also is vanity and vexation of spirit.
   Ecclesiastes 4:15-16 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
10. Ecclesiastes 6:2A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.
11. Ecclesiastes 7:15All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness.
    Ecclesiastes 7:14-16 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 7 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
12. Ecclesiastes 9:9Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
    Ecclesiastes 9:8-10 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 9 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
13. Ecclesiastes 11:8But if a man live many years, and rejoice in them all; yet let him remember the days of darkness; for they shall be many. All that cometh is vanity.
    Ecclesiastes 11:7-9 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 11 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
14. Ecclesiastes 12:8Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
    
15. Ecclesiastes 7:15All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness.
    Ecclesiastes 7:14-16 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 7 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
16. Ecclesiastes 9:9Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
    Ecclesiastes 9:8-10 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 9 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
17. Ecclesiastes 11:8But if a man live many years, and rejoice in them all; yet let him remember the days of darkness; for they shall be many. All that cometh is vanity.
    Ecclesiastes 11:7-9 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 11 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
18. Ecclesiastes 12:8Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
    
    So to each their own for as a maqn believeth, so that man does and as a man beleiveth not so that man does, let us just love one another with no vexation of Spirit. Keeping thoughts on God and God's finiished work for each of us being thankful for this amazing Love poured out onto all of us, okay love you all
    
    

 

[sonjohn]

And the conclusion of the matter is: fear God and keep His commandments. This applies to every person. This from the wisest man that there ever was, or ever will be

 

[jinx]

you're all missing out on some good preaching in the video I posted.