Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[notuptome]

When we talk about commandments we need to consider what is written in Ephesians 2:15. Jesus having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances to make in Himself of two one new man making so peace. We although still in the body of flesh are no longer enemies with the commandments contained in ordinances. Jesus through His blood reconciled us to the law. All that the law could do it has done to Christ. Through Christ's vicarious atonement we have peace with God and the commandments, the law and ordinances cannot accuse us of sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[homwardbound]

oh good grief!!!! peter commanded them in acts 2:38. and one cannot baptise themselves with the SPIRIT only GOD can do that, but in acts 2:38 peter commands us to be baptized, so that only leaves water!!!!!!

This is not hard to understand!~!!!!!

Is Peter God? did Peter still need growth to truth? Was Peter a look good guy, wanting to be accepted by others instead of just God? Did Peter worry a lot about what others thought of him? Did Peter get used to Water Babtizing as he did a lot while walking with Jesus? So tihs new tradition that had never been done before or was this ever taught to him to do, was now doing and was bewildered by the Holy Ghost coming on ot those that just beleived did not knwo how toreact and said well then being brought up under law had to put this on them as well and get water Babtized, just as he started to have the gentiles be like the Jews that Paul rebuked him for Gal 2
Anyway there is still a differance between Spiritual Baptism and water. John baptized with water Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Which one gives life?

 

[homwardbound]

Homeward let's try this again





How is it that it is translated command.? How hard is it to understand?

Tell me which gives new life, Water Babtiusm or spiuritual?
Which did John say he did, and which did John say Chrst does? How hard is it to uunderstand which gives life and which does not?

 

[homwardbound]

When we talk about commandments we need to consider what is written in Ephesians 2:15. Jesus having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances to make in Himself of two one new man making so peace. We although still in the body of flesh are no longer enemies with the commandments contained in ordinances. Jesus through His blood reconciled us to the law. All that the law could do it has done to Christ. Through Christ's vicarious atonement we have peace with God and the commandments, the law and ordinances cannot accuse us of sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

but people sure can and do, I myself am told just take the lashes and trust in only one the creator of God, the Father of christ, that Christ by his death and resurrected has translated me to his kingdom in Heaven supping with Father, reloicing in his amazing salvation that is given to us all that beleive, not having to have any of our own righteousness because man flesh can't and will never. So I am thankful for this amazinig gift and do not take it for granted, nor do I get caught up in the commandments of men anymore as I once was, and was completely miserable behind closed doors, putting on my mask each day as I walked out the door. Today no longer in need of that mask, thnaking God for loving me before I was ever Born freeing me from man's traps of look at me I an doing this or that, ain't I just so good? yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! only mt Father Christ's Dad is good. and I am overelated by what he has done for me and all that beleive in God, freed from commandments which is the same as being freed from Law, so we then thus serve God with our new born again hearts by the resurrected Christ, where the new Holy Ghost Babtism is at for all that believe

 

[4enlightment]

but people sure can and do, I myself am told just take the lashes and trust in only one the creator of God, the Father of christ, that Christ by his death and resurrected has translated me to his kingdom in Heaven supping with Father, reloicing in his amazing salvation that is given to us all that beleive, not having to have any of our own righteousness because man flesh can't and will never. So I am thankful for this amazinig gift and do not take it for granted, nor do I get caught up in the commandments of men anymore as I once was, and was completely miserable behind closed doors, putting on my mask each day as I walked out the door. Today no longer in need of that mask, thnaking God for loving me before I was ever Born freeing me from man's traps of look at me I an doing this or that, ain't I just so good? yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! only mt Father Christ's Dad is good. and I am overelated by what he has done for me and all that beleive in God, freed from commandments which is the same as being freed from Law, so we then thus serve God with our new born again hearts by the resurrected Christ, where the new Holy Ghost Babtism is at for all that believe

And whom ever has that mentality to do what Christ asked them to do and still be in good cheer, will be able to see God

 

[notuptome]

And whom ever has that mentality to do what Christ asked them to do and still be in good cheer, will be able to see God

The new commandments He has written in our hearts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[homwardbound]

The new commandments He has written in our hearts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

These might be the greatest of the Law, yeah; love God above all and thy neighbor
Now I couldn't see doing this without first seeing God's love for me, then everything elseis simple,and this can be easy to forget and get all caught up in whether or not we have to babtized and then debates start as in here and miscommunication, as well as stubborness to see my side, your side and their side and end up sometimes arguing and accusing

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am going back to the basics and rebuild off of GOD JUST LOVEs Us ALL

Therefore since this is true, to each you are right, and I am happy for you all, because this is each your own personal belief, yes by what you read, and see as truth, as long as each here are in peace, then each has praise in God.

 

[SarahM777]

Tell me which gives new life, Water Babtiusm or spiuritual?
Which did John say he did, and which did John say Chrst does? How hard is it to uunderstand which gives life and which does not?

What is so hard to understand that we are to believe and OBEY? James is clear on this faith without works is DEAD. We are to be baptized in WATER,it is to be done out of FAITH. Where is one's faith if one will NOT do as Jesus told us to do? We are to obey Him and do it out of love for Him. If one refuses to do it is rebellion.

 

[notuptome]

What is so hard to understand that we are to believe and OBEY? James is clear on this faith without works is DEAD. We are to be baptized in WATER,it is to be done out of FAITH. Where is one's faith if one will NOT do as Jesus told us to do? We are to obey Him and do it out of love for Him. If one refuses to do it is rebellion.

I really believe that you misunderstand what James is teaching. He is not teaching that works are required to give life to faith. James is teaching consistent with the rest of the bible that the living faith we receive from God produces works or fruit in the lives of those who possess it. Eph 2:10 The simplest verse to explain what James is saying. All of scripture must agree and any interpretation that sets one passage against another is incorrect. Salvation is by grace received through faith it is not of works lest any man should boast. Those who have a real heart knowledge of Christ and are quickened by the Holy Spirit are new creatures in Christ. We walk in newness of life. The life which we now live we live by the faith of Jesus Christ.
We should receive water baptism not to be saved but because we are saved. We should be obedient not to be saved but because we are saved. If our Saviour impresses your heart to do something then do it but do not make it incumbent upon everybody else to do it as well. Not everyone is called to forsake all and go to a foreign mission field but some are. Are they more saved than the one who stays in his/her local church and passes out tracts during outreach ministry? The only thing we must do is receive Christ for the forgiveness of our sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SarahM777]

I really believe that you misunderstand what James is teaching. He is not teaching that works are required to give life to faith. James is teaching consistent with the rest of the bible that the living faith we receive from God produces works or fruit in the lives of those who possess it. Eph 2:10 The simplest verse to explain what James is saying. All of scripture must agree and any interpretation that sets one passage against another is incorrect. Salvation is by grace received through faith it is not of works lest any man should boast. Those who have a real heart knowledge of Christ and are quickened by the Holy Spirit are new creatures in Christ. We walk in newness of life. The life which we now live we live by the faith of Jesus Christ.
We should receive water baptism not to be saved but because we are saved. We should be obedient not to be saved but because we are saved. If our Saviour impresses your heart to do something then do it but do not make it incumbent upon everybody else to do it as well. Not everyone is called to forsake all and go to a foreign mission field but some are. Are they more saved than the one who stays in his/her local church and passes out tracts during outreach ministry? The only thing we must do is receive Christ for the forgiveness of our sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Why does it seem like you confusing mission work with baptism? The Lord is clear we are to be baptized. He never says that all are called to a different land. I don't believe I am misunderstanding James,I think it's pretty clear that if one has the faith them one will obey,if ones does not obey then faith is dead. There is no evidence of a living faith if it does NOT produce the fruits of that faith. I have never said that works produce faith. If it is a living faith it should produce works.

 

[notuptome]

Why does it seem like you confusing mission work with baptism? The Lord is clear we are to be baptized. He never says that all are called to a different land. I don't believe I am misunderstanding James,I think it's pretty clear that if one has the faith them one will obey,if ones does not obey then faith is dead. There is no evidence of a living faith if it does NOT produce the fruits of that faith. I have never said that works produce faith. If it is a living faith it should produce works.

The Lord commanded that we should go into all the world beginning at Jerusalem. Acts 1:8
Instead of making water baptism burdensome why not leave it to the Lord to lead? Teaching that water baptism is required for salvation is nonsense. Philip the evangelist did not need to prompt the eunuch asked Philip to baptize him. The Lord stirred the eunuchs heart to want water baptism. No coercion and the only condition was believe in Jesus. Acts 8:36-40

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SarahM777]

The Lord commanded that we should go into all the world beginning at Jerusalem. Acts 1:8
Instead of making water baptism burdensome why not leave it to the Lord to lead? Teaching that water baptism is required for salvation is nonsense. Philip the evangelist did not need to prompt the eunuch asked Philip to baptize him. The Lord stirred the eunuchs heart to want water baptism. No coercion and the only condition was believe in Jesus. Acts 8:36-40

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So do we just ignore these passages?


Romans 6
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin;how can we live in it any longer?3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Colossians 2

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[b] was put off when you were circumcised by[c] Christ,12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 3

19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all,were saved through water,21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

How does get around that verse or the verses above that? It doesn't seem to be baptism by the Holy Spirit. So what baptism are they referring to?

 

[notuptome]

So do we just ignore these passages?


Romans 6
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin;how can we live in it any longer?3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Colossians 2

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[b] was put off when you were circumcised by[c] Christ,12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 3

19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all,were saved through water,21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

How does get around that verse or the verses above that? It doesn't seem to be baptism by the Holy Spirit. So what baptism are they referring to?

Not at all. Only that you and others cannot or will not discern between Holy Spirit baptism which saves Titus 3:5 and water baptism which is a figure a symbol of Holy Spirit baptism.
This is destructive to the well being of the body. Water cannot save. Obedience cannot save. Grace received by faith saves. Salvation is a gift not compensation for meritorious service. Bludgeoning new believers over the head with water baptism is not the love we are to display for Christ.
Why do some think they must mandate how others are to worship? Is that not evidence of the old nature? I have seen a fair number of folks receive water baptism and none of them were doing so because they had to. They all wanted baptism and asked to receive it according to the scriptures. They all gave a testimony of salvation before they were water baptized.
Oh that we might have a greater knowledge of the depths of Gods grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[zone]

Is Peter God? did Peter still need growth to truth? Was Peter a look good guy, wanting to be accepted by others instead of just God? Did Peter worry a lot about what others thought of him? Did Peter get used to Water Babtizing as he did a lot while walking with Jesus? So tihs new tradition that had never been done before or was this ever taught to him to do, was now doing and was bewildered by the Holy Ghost coming on ot those that just beleived did not knwo how toreact and said well then being brought up under law had to put this on them as well and get water Babtized, just as he started to have the gentiles be like the Jews that Paul rebuked him for Gal 2

OMGOSH
this is unbelievable.

 

[SarahM777]

OMGOSH
this is unbelievable.

Need some?

 

[zone]

What is so hard to understand that we are to believe and OBEY? James is clear on this faith without works is DEAD. We are to be baptized in WATER,it is to be done out of FAITH. Where is one's faith if one will NOT do as Jesus told us to do? We are to obey Him and do it out of love for Him. If one refuses to do it is rebellion.

if i was ever going to venture to say the Spirit "told me", it was this.
then i saw your post.

indeed.
look at the Bible twisting and excuses.

 

[zone]

The Lord commanded that we should go into all the world beginning at Jerusalem. Acts 1:8
Instead of making water baptism burdensome why not leave it to the Lord to lead? Teaching that water baptism is required for salvation is nonsense. Philip the evangelist did not need to prompt the eunuch asked Philip to baptize him. The Lord stirred the eunuchs heart to want water baptism. No coercion and the only condition was believe in Jesus. Acts 8:36-40

For the cause of Christ
Roger

yes, the Spirit prompts ANYONE who is taught the BASIC Gospel to be baptized - in water. exactly as commanded.
the penitent sinner drawn to Christ will WANT to be baptized.
unless they belong to certain denominations.....then it's all about something else entirely.

Matthew 11:30
25At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; 26yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.g 27All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. 28Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

1 John 5:3
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome


how is it ppl even DARE to cause little ones to stumble?
REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED AND RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

is that hard?
'parently

 

[zone]

Salvation is a gift not compensation for meritorious service.

Bludgeoning new believers over the head with water baptism is not the love we are to display for Christ.

may God have mercy on you.

 

[homwardbound]

What is so hard to understand that we are to believe and OBEY? James is clear on this faith without works is DEAD. We are to be baptized in WATER,it is to be done out of FAITH. Where is one's faith if one will NOT do as Jesus told us to do? We are to obey Him and do it out of love for Him. If one refuses to do it is rebellion.

I see you said out of Faith, belief, in God yes? Cool then, but it stilldoes not answer what I asked which one gives life? And which one was to decrease, while the other was to increase?
Yet I see you also used works. So tell me you show me your works that produced your Faith if it is works that does the producing?
And I will show you my works as a result of my belief in God.
flesh works do not and can not bring salvation, water Babtism is a flesh work no differant than trying to obey the Ten Commandments let alone what 314 all together
If works any flesh works and or Law would have brought life then there would have been no need to
Galatians 3:5Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—
Galatians 3:2This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Romans 9:32Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

John's Babtism is a Babtism for wanting to serve God a Babtism of repentance not for life and is good to do to want to be born again, but not to be born again in and of itself. A great star, and in many cases a very frustrating one, when one sees they can't do it and is why Paul said waht Paul said to the Galatians about being decieved, and today we the people have added that we can't be saved unless we are water Babtized. when as Peter was speaking the Holy Ghost came upon those that he was speaking to and these were gentiles, wow, no warter Babtism, even though they did do it afterwords and it was becasue Peter plainly said who could refuse to be after this miraculous experience, yet this obviously was not a command, it was who could refuse all in acts 10.
THe salvation is of God and is a free gift given to those that beleive in the resurrection of christ first the death that he took away all their sins relieving them of the stress that comes on to all of us. That the world has convisted us all of and has convinced us all to stop sin and please God when alltrying to stop sin does is creates more sin, or one really does stop it and believes he is righteous of God from God when he is not. Because the holier thatn thou attitude is very present and easily seen in those that are self righteous in need still to be born again and are not, but have been water Babtized joined a church and act as if they are righteous, when they know they are not but will not confess their sins in the open to each other in fear of how others will see them, and continue in their folly always beinf afraid of being found out. Been there done that, and it is not good

 

[zone]

I see you said out of Faith, belief, in God yes? Cool then, but it stilldoes not answer what I asked which one gives life? And which one was to decrease, while the other was to increase?
Yet I see you also used works. So tell me you show me your works that produced your Faith if it is works that does the producing?
And I will show you my works as a result of my belief in God.
flesh works do not and can not bring salvation, water Babtism is a flesh work no differant than trying to obey the Ten Commandments let alone what 314 all together
If works any flesh works and or Law would have brought life then there would have been no need to
Galatians 3:5Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—
Galatians 3:2This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Romans 9:32Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

John's Babtism is a Babtism for wanting to serve God a Babtism of repentance not for life and is good to do to want to be born again, but not to be born again in and of itself. A great star, and in many cases a very frustrating one, when one sees they can't do it and is why Paul said waht Paul said to the Galatians about being decieved, and today we the people have added that we can't be saved unless we are water Babtized. when as Peter was speaking the Holy Ghost came upon those that he was speaking to and these were gentiles, wow, no warter Babtism, even though they did do it afterwords and it was becasue Peter plainly said who could refuse to be after this miraculous experience, yet this obviously was not a command, it was who could refuse all in acts 10.
THe salvation is of God and is a free gift given to those that beleive in the resurrection of christ first the death that he took away all their sins relieving them of the stress that comes on to all of us. That the world has convisted us all of and has convinced us all to stop sin and please God when alltrying to stop sin does is creates more sin, or one really does stop it and believes he is righteous of God from God when he is not. Because the holier thatn thou attitude is very present and easily seen in those that are self righteous in need still to be born again and are not, but have been water Babtized joined a church and act as if they are righteous, when they know they are not but will not confess their sins in the open to each other in fear of how others will see them, and continue in their folly always beinf afraid of being found out. Been there done that, and it is not good

so, people who have been saved by grace through faith and in that moment receive the gift, the seal of the Holy Spirit, then presumably shortly thereafter as an act of faith are baptized in the Name of the Father of the Son and of the Holy Spirit are acting righteous, aren't born again etc etc.....why again?

oh..because they are learning to stop sinning, and confess their sins when they do.
right?