True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

[svedbygrace]

it took 29 years for Abraham tobe 100% sure of God's voice to have the promised child and then be willing to sacrifice him.
To all that are in beleif wanting to know hang in there and let God grow you and youwilllearn truth from any error from mankind, For God promised neve to forsake us or leave us
Halleluah!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You quoted post 399 but evaded my points, do you understand them ?

 

[homwardbound]

Yes I am a OSAS believer once God confirmed this to me, I know and knew and know, because I have redieved the peace, righteousness and joy founfd in God through the Holy Ghost of God
Beyond any human understanding

 

[svedbygrace]

Yes I am a OSAS believer once God confirmed this to me, I know and knew and know, because I have redieved the peace, righteousness and joy founfd in God through the Holy Ghost of God
Beyond any human understanding

You still evaded my points made. Don't worry about it, its obvious you do not want to do that !

 

[svedbygrace]

Shall not walk in Darkness but have the light of life !


John 8:12

12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Now who is it that shall follow Christ ? Jn 10:27-28

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Its His Sheep, those He died for ! Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

These Sheep, who follow Christ, now converted, Shall never again walk in darkness ! They will never again walk in the darkness of unbelief !

They shall have the Light of Life ! This is a future tense promise, meaning they have it now, and will continue to have it into the future.

Prov 4:18

But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

The Just are those Christ died for ! They were made Just by His obedience ! Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word righteous is translated 33 times in the NT as Just !

This tells me that everyone Christ died for shall have the Light of life, and this forever..41

 

[svedbygrace]

It is no doubt in my mind that those who deny Eternal Security of the Believer, are Representatives of the man of sin, that evil spirit that is Against Christ ! Those of you who do deny this Truth if scripture #1 Charge Christ with failure of accomplishing His Father's express will for Him Here it is Jn 6:37-40

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Those of you who deny Eternal Security of the Believer are saying those that it was the Fathers will that Should believe on the Son, and did believe on the Son, can loose Everlasting Life, and consequently Christ will not raise him up in the last day for the purpose of enjoying and entering into Eternal Life, the future aspect of it !

Hence Christ failed His Fathers will, because The father gave them to Christ for safekeeping, to guard and keep them.

Secondly, they are calling Christ a Liar who says of them that came to Him and believed, He said this Jn 6:37

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Now that word cast out is the greek word ekballō

to expel a person from a society: to banish from a family

The saved are a Family of God Eph 3:15

Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

So obviously, if a believer , a Child of God, does something that can have them cast out of the Family of God, like leave the family, like the prodigal Son did Lk 15, and because of that, they get cast out of the Family, then Jesus Lied !

Also if that one that got cast out of the family, is later in the day of Judgment, cast out into outer darkness like this Illustration portrays Matt 25:30

30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Then Jesus lied. Because Jesus said in Jn 6:37

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

And then for some reason Jesus does cast them out, Then He Lied !

So this is a serious consequence on Christ, for those of you who teach the God and Christ dishonoring doctrine of one having been saved by the Grace of God, can somehow loose it, by something they did or did not do 43

 

[starfield]

It is no doubt in my mind that those who deny Eternal Security of the Believer, are Representatives of the man of sin, that evil spirit that is Against Christ !

Doctrines that make allowance for sin in believers' life rather than promote godliness are from Satan himself. Satan formulated this in the beginning: "you can sin and not surely die", which is exactly the premise of unconditional eternal security. As such, it gives "disobedient Christians" a false sense of security thinking they are on the narrow road to eternal life when in fact they are on the broad road to eternal destruction.

Jesus said we should to STRIVE, agonise, to enter in at the strait gate. How come you don't teach this, Sir?
Luke 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Strive: agōnizomai
ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee
From G73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or generally (to endeavor to accomplish something)
KJV Usage: fight, labor fervently, strive.


The narrow way is not the easy route, one has to forsake all and follow Jesus to enter into the kingdom hence Jesus said this...
Matt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matt 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Those of you who do deny this Truth if scripture #1 Charge Christ with failure of accomplishing His Father's express will for Him Here it is Jn 6:37-40

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

...And one has to continue believing in Jesus to have everlasting life. If they stop believing and deny Christ, they don't have everlasting life. See 2 Timothy 2:11-12
11. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12. If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Those of you who deny Eternal Security of the Believer are saying those that it was the Fathers will that Should believe on the Son, and did believe on the Son, can loose Everlasting Life, and consequently Christ will not raise him up in the last day for the purpose of enjoying and entering into Eternal Life, the future aspect of it !

Hence Christ failed His Fathers will, because The father gave them to Christ for safekeeping, to guard and keep them.

Was Jesus not guarding and keeping the sheep that got lost? Why did it get lost? The parable of the lost coin: how come it got lost if once saved, you can NEVER be lost again?

Does man not retain free will after salvation?

30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The above passage actually debunk unconditional eternal security. The unprofitable servant wouldn't have been thrown into outer darkness if unconditional eternal security is true, rather he would have simply lost eternal rewards for his wickedness. Jesus never taught unconditional eternal security.

So this is a serious consequence on Christ, for those of you who teach the God and Christ dishonoring doctrine of one having been saved by the Grace of God, can somehow loose it, by something they did or did not do 43

Finally, Apostle Paul told believers that the wrath of God is coming upon the children of disobedience thus they shouldn't partake with them. It would be meaningless for him to say such if in fact they could partake in debauchery with the world and escape the wrath of God.

Please, Svedbygrace, seriously consider to what I've written. If you examine the WHOLE counsel of God and harmonise scripture with scripture, you won't find any scriptural proof for unconditional eternal security. Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to those that obey Him.

 

[svedbygrace]

star

Doctrines that make allowance for sin in believers' life rather than promote godliness are from Satan himself

You quoted post 405 then evaded the points I made with scripture. Please explain to me the points I made and why, even though you may disagree. Thanks.

 

[svedbygrace]

Was Jesus not guarding and keeping the sheep that got lost?

No,adam was !

For you to even suggest such a thing is Blasphemous against Christ.

 

[homwardbound]

It is no doubt in my mind that those who deny Eternal Security of the Believer, are Representatives of the man of sin, that evil spirit that is Against Christ ! Those of you who do deny this Truth if scripture #1 Charge Christ with failure of accomplishing His Father's express will for Him Here it is Jn 6:37-40

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Those of you who deny Eternal Security of the Believer are saying those that it was the Fathers will that Should believe on the Son, and did believe on the Son, can loose Everlasting Life, and consequently Christ will not raise him up in the last day for the purpose of enjoying and entering into Eternal Life, the future aspect of it !

Hence Christ failed His Fathers will, because The father gave them to Christ for safekeeping, to guard and keep them.

Secondly, they are calling Christ a Liar who says of them that came to Him and believed, He said this Jn 6:37

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Now that word cast out is the greek word ekballō

to expel a person from a society: to banish from a family

The saved are a Family of God Eph 3:15

Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

So obviously, if a believer , a Child of God, does something that can have them cast out of the Family of God, like leave the family, like the prodigal Son did Lk 15, and because of that, they get cast out of the Family, then Jesus Lied !

Also if that one that got cast out of the family, is later in the day of Judgment, cast out into outer darkness like this Illustration portrays Matt 25:30

30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Then Jesus lied. Because Jesus said in Jn 6:37

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

And then for some reason Jesus does cast them out, Then He Lied !

So this is a serious consequence on Christ, for those of you who teach the God and Christ dishonoring doctrine of one having been saved by the Grace of God, can somehow loose it, by something they did or did not do 43

Yes if Christ saves he saves perod those that God gave Christ, those that do believe in no wise will they ever be casted out, absollutely, and I can identify thost by their fruits. And can identify thost that have gotten temporarily misled and know they will return to the Father after spending their inheritance.
I think the point here is if one is in Christ and Christ in them then
1 John 2:9He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.
1 John 2:11But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 3:15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 4:20[ Obedience by Faith ] If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

So ther fruit is identified in each of us and if we hate, we have not the Love of God in us, and have not recieved the truth.
If we have recieved the Holy Ghost, then we recieved the uunconditional; Love of God and in being free we will not take God for granted and just go out and harm our neighbor, because in the born again Spirit, provided by God through the resurrection of christ we can't, it is not the new us.
This is why 1 cor. was written by Paul to them, because they took advantage of the grace of God. The letter was to inform them not to take
Hebrews 2:3how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him
So those that believew will carry on to the end in appreciation not forgetting thier first love, this is what starfield points to and you might neglect, and she is saying well yes, but please do not us this amazing salvation for an occassion for the flesh to juist do as the Corinthians did.
Theeir thought(s) were wellskince God took all sin away, we can then just do wahtever we want, no consequences, this is what the devil planted in their minds. So they had sex with other women there in the Church, ate up all the food, drank all the wine, did what they wanted without any compassion for the rest of the people and took away others free will in the process.
This is not right. Yet through all this they finally came to a Godly Repentance over the wroldly one they had, recieced God's full grace and in response, they did the work of Love given to them by God and went on in consideration and love their neighbors as God has past tense already loved them through the cross of Christ
Anyway hope this helps to straighten this mis communication out

 

[svedbygrace]

More Eternal Security Truth !

You know, if one really understood Salvation and the Eternal Purpose that designed it, they would also understand that it was really never the remotest possibility of those Chosen in Christ before the foundation ever going to hell fire, or to hear these words Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Nor Matt 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

The Elect are all Prodigal Sons, now was there ever really a chance that the prodigal Son would not receive the Blessings of His Father ? I do not think so !

Now lets look at a verse that speaks to the Eternal Security of the Saints Jude 1:1

1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Preserved in Jesus Christ ! The word preserved is the greek word tēreō and it is in the perfect passive tense ! The perfect tense means:


"The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated. "

The Passive voice means:

"The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. E.g., in the sentence, "The boy was hit by the ball," the boy receives the action"

Now the word itself preserved means:

attend to carefully, take care of

a) to guard

b) metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is

c) to observe

d) to reserve: to undergo something

This means they, those whom Jude was writing, the Beloved, had been in the past once and for all, preserved, guarded, kept in a state of santification, by Jesus Christ ! How can this not spell Security for these ?

and preserved in Jesus Christ; those who are sanctified, or set apart by God the Father in election, are in Christ, for they are chosen in him; they have a place in his heart, and they are put into his hands, and are in him, and united to him as members to an head, and were represented by him in the covenant of grace; and being in him, they are preserved by him, and that before they are called, as well as after; wherefore this character is put before that of being called, though the Syriac version puts that in the first place: there is a secret preservation of them in Christ before calling, from condemnation and the second death; they were not preserved from falling in Adam, with the rest of mankind, nor from the corruption of human nature, nor from actual sins and transgressions; yet, notwithstanding these, were so preserved that the law could not execute the sentence of condemnation on them, nor sin damn them, nor Satan, who led them captive, hale them to prison; and after calling, they are preserved not from indwelling sin, nor from the temptations of Satan, nor from doubts and fears and unbelief, nor from slips and falls into sin; but from the tyranny and dominion of sin, from being devoured by Satan, and from a total and final falling away; they are preserved in the love of God, and of Christ; in the covenant of grace; in a state of justification and adoption; and in the paths of truth, faith, and holiness; and are preserved safe to the heavenly kingdom and glory: their other character follows,

John Gill 44

 

[homwardbound]

Re: More Eternal Security Truth !

You know, if one really understood Salvation and the Eternal Purpose that designed it, they would also understand that it was really never the remotest possibility of those Chosen in Christ before the foundation ever going to hell fire, or to hear these words Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Nor Matt 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

The Elect are all Prodigal Sons, now was there ever really a chance that the prodigal Son would not receive the Blessings of His Father ? I do not think so !

Now lets look at a verse that speaks to the Eternal Security of the Saints Jude 1:1

1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Preserved in Jesus Christ ! The word preserved is the greek word tēreō and it is in the perfect passive tense ! The perfect tense means:


"The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated. "

The Passive voice means:

"The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. E.g., in the sentence, "The boy was hit by the ball," the boy receives the action"

Now the word itself preserved means:

attend to carefully, take care of

a) to guard

b) metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is

c) to observe

d) to reserve: to undergo something

This means they, those whom Jude was writing, the Beloved, had been in the past once and for all, preserved, guarded, kept in a state of santification, by Jesus Christ ! How can this not spell Security for these ?


John Gill 44

So the ones that are preserved and know this now changed from being prodical will harm their neighbor in response after they see truth, knowing they can but won't is this true or will they and if do are they saved?
This is me seperating the fake fruit from the real. Because it seems you promote sinful behavior after knowing the truth and in reception of it as the Corinthians were written to about this error in 1 Cor. and could only speak to them as carnal,they could only stomach milk,they weren't yuet ready for meat.
Now they thought they were andhad the meat, and were drinking and eating all the food and drink before therest of the body got there,having sex with whoever they chose, it did not matter if the other consented or not. There were women from the brothel in their place of gsthering preaching. Itdid not matter to them because they took to heart and got deceived in thinking that since God has, past tense, forgiven them for all time by Christ as Paul told them. Then why not jusy goand take whatever I want, I am forgiven
This is why 1 Corinthians was written to them, to straighten out this error that got planted into them from the Spirit of error.
So I know I am eternally secure in Christ and I am not in neglect of this or use it for an occasion for the flesh as a lot do. God's purpose in doing what God did was not to take advantage, rather appreciate and be set free to love as God does.
Hebrews 2:3how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Galatians 5:13For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another

So those who use this as an excuse for the flesh, just as one uses alcohol as the excuse for bad behavior, are saved? Only if they are in God yes? but I do not see those continuing on with such type of behavior as the Corinthians saw and came to truth having a Godly sorrow, and thus recived Mercy and gave Mercy, allowed all tohave their free will the same as God, yet tell others of this love that passes all human understandiing. So they got compassion thus showed it too
God's way not man's so well hearsed out way

 

[starfield]

Re: More Eternal Security Truth !

The Elect are all Prodigal Sons, now was there ever really a chance that the prodigal Son would not receive the Blessings of His Father ? I do not think so !

Was the prodigal son receiving his father's blessings in the pig sty and when he was gallivanting with prostitutes?

 

[svedbygrace]

Re: More Eternal Security Truth !

Was the prodigal son receiving his father's blessings in the pig sty and when he was gallivanting with prostitutes?

Yes, the Elect are reconciled to God while they are being enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[starfield]

Re: More Eternal Security Truth !

Yes, the Elect are reconciled to God while they are being enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Luke 15:11-32 Parable of the Prodigal son
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. [repentance]
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

The above clearly shows that the prodigal wasn't receiving his father's blessings while in the pig sty hence he had to repent and return to his father.

 

[starfield]

Re: More Eternal Security Truth !

Yes, the Elect are reconciled to God while they are being enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

By the way, that verse does not negate repentance. God will not save anyone that refuse to turn to Him in faith and continue in their wickedness.

You continually cling to that ONE verse in efforts to deny biblical repentance but it won't be your alibi on Judgment day. God expects that man repents in order to be reconciled to Him (Acts 17:30, 2 Cor. 5:20b).

 

[ChosenbyHim]

[

Doctrines that make allowance for sin in believers' life rather than promote godliness are from Satan himself. Satan formulated this in the beginning: "you can sin and not surely die", which is exactly the premise of unconditional eternal security. As such, it gives "disobedient Christians" a false sense of security thinking they are on the narrow road to eternal life when in fact they are on the broad road to eternal destruction.

No Starfield, That is not the premise of unconditional Eternal Security.

And it is deception to teach what you are teaching Starfield in regard to Eternal Security.

Could you find me any Bible believing Preacher that teaches that it's okay to sin? Do you know of any true Bible believing preacher that says it's alright to sin and to not worry about it? I don't think so. True Bible believing preachers who preach Uncondiontal Eternal Security do not say that it is okay to sin. What we teach is that if you sin and continue messing with sin, that you will have a rotten life down here on earth as a Christian. You will have a rough life. And you will lose a lot in this life (i.e. money, health, family, testimony, joy of salvation, assurance of salvation, fellowship with the Father, and many more things.) And also that they will lose Eternal Rewards at the Judgegment Seat of Christ as well as Crowns, and their Millennial Inheritance. The only thing that they cannot lose is their salvation.

So again, that statement you made in regard to uncondiontal Eternal Security is wrong. And you need to reconsider your position Starfield. Uncondtional Eternal Security is a Bible Doctrine.

And by the way, Starfield, let me ask you a question. Have you ever disobeyed the Lord in your life? Have you ever disobeyed the instruction of the Holy Spirit. For instance, was there a time where the Holy Spirit was leading you to make a certain decision in your life in regard to an issue that you were having and you did not follow the leading of the Holy Spirit?

If your honest Starfield, then you will admit that there have been times where you disobeyed the Lord, but when you disobeyed the Lord, did that mean that you lost your salvation?

Think about that, I mean consider what your actually saying.

Now are there disobedient Christians out there? yes, of course. That is just the nature of how things are. And those disobedient Christians, if they are truly saved, then they will receive chastisement from the Lord. Because the Lord disciplines all that are His. But if a Christian is disobedient, that does NOT mean that he is on the road to destruction. Why? Because he already accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour. That person's sins have already been paid for and the righteousness of Jesus Christ was imputed onto that believer. Remember Starfield, it is not our good works which justiofy us before the Father. But it is the holiness, the blodd, and the rightouesness of the Lord Jesus Christ that justifies us before the Heavenly Father.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. - Hebrews 12:5-11 (Holy Bible)

Jesus said we should to STRIVE, agonise, to enter in at the strait gate. How come you don't teach this, Sir? Luke 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Strive: agōnizomai
ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee
From G73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or generally (to endeavor to accomplish something)
KJV Usage: fight, labor fervently, strive.

Yeah that passage is pointed mainly at salvation. Salvation is very simple, but it is not easy. Why? Because many times people are so wicked and evil that they don't want to have to give up their sin. They won't repent because they love R-Rated movies too much. Or they won't repent because they are afriad what their buddies in the hockey league will think of them. Or they won't get saved, because of their addiction to pornography, or fornication, or shacking up, or riches etc.

The one element of salvation that is difficult is Repentance. And you know it's interesting because brother Bryan Denlinger said this a couple of times during some of his recent video sermons. And he said that there are lost people that he knows that won't get saved because they know that thei will have to change once they do get saved. You see, the lost people out there realize that salvation means a changed life. And because they do realize that, they won't repent. They won't get saved. It is their sin, and their love of it that keeps them from getting saved. Or many times it is simply the fear of man that keeps them from getting saved, because they are so concerned with what their friends and family may think. And what is sad about that is that these lost people do understand that they are sinners. They know that they are sinners. But because they will not repent, which means to turn from their life of sin, they will not get saved. Repentance must precede salvation. And I believe that is what that passage is mainly pointed at.

But once a person truly gets saved, that person is then baptized into the Body of Christ and is sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise. (See 1 Cor. 12:12-14, 27 & Eph. 1:13 & Eph. 4:30). And from there on that person is a new creature in Christ.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. - 2 Corinthians 2:14-19 (Holy Bible)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The narrow way is not the easy route, one has to forsake all and follow Jesus to enter into the kingdom hence Jesus said this...
Matt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matt 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Again, this passage is pointed at repentance. You have to repent, and then you are ready to receive salvation. This passage does not teach perseverance of the saints in the Church Age though. Nor does it teach that a Christian can lose his salvation.

Remember this passage is doctrinally pointed at the Jews under the Old Mosaic Law. You have to keep that in mind.

For instance, if there is something that is keeping you from getting saved. Then you need to get rid of it. That person needs to cut it off. For it will be one of the things that damns him, if he allows it to keep him from repenting and coming to the Lord for salvation.

...And one has to continue believing in Jesus to have everlasting life. If they stop believing and deny Christ, they don't have everlasting life. See 2 Timothy 2:11-12
11. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12. If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Again Starfield, that is simply not true. The only thing that is required for salvation is biblical repentence and belief on the Lord Jesus Christ. That's it. Once a person gets saved, he is saved forever. If our salvation is dependent upon whther we continue believing, then guess what that means? That means we are really saved by our works. That would mean that we stay saved by doing good works. And that is wrong. Because we are not saved by our good works, nor do we stay saved by our good works. It is the blood of Jesus Christ and it is His imputed righteouesness on our behalfs that keeps us saved. And that passage in 2 Timothy 2:10-12 is clearly talking about a Millennial Reign with the Lord Jesus Christ. If we suffer reproach for Jesus Christ while on this earth, then we will reign with Him in the Millennial Kingdom. But if we suffer not, if we deny Him, by conforming to the world and not to His word. Then He will deny us a reign in His Millennial Kingdom. That is what that passage of Scripture is clearly teaching Starfield. It is not teaching that a Christian can lose their salvation. True Born again Christians cannot lose their salvation in the Church Age. They are purchased by God by the Blood of Jesus Christ. They are His. They are part of His body. They are part of His flesh and His bones. (See Ephesians 5:30).



[SUP]28 [/SUP]Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. - Acts 20:28 (Holy Bible)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. - Ephesians 1:13-14 (Holy Bible)

Was Jesus not guarding and keeping the sheep that got lost? Why did it get lost? The parable of the lost coin: how come it got lost if once saved, you can NEVER be lost again?

Does man not retain free will after salvation?


The above passage actually debunk unconditional eternal security. The unprofitable servant wouldn't have been thrown into outer darkness if unconditional eternal security is true, rather he would have simply lost eternal rewards for his wickedness. Jesus never taught unconditional eternal security.

Yes He did Starfield.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. - John 17:3-26 (Holy Bible)


[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I and my Father are one. - John 10:27-30 (Holy Bible)

Finally, Apostle Paul told believers that the wrath of God is coming upon the children of disobedience thus they shouldn't partake with them. It would be meaningless for him to say such if in fact they could partake in debauchery with the world and escape the wrath of God.

Please, Svedbygrace, seriously consider to what I've written. If you examine the WHOLE counsel of God and harmonise scripture with scripture, you won't find any scriptural proof for unconditional eternal security. Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to those that obey Him.

Starfield, the children of disobedience are the lost souls of this world. They have not repented and believed the Gospel. Therefore they are the children of wrath and the children of disobedience. They have not obeyed the Gospel.
And how do you obey the Gospel? By repenting and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are Passages in the Bible that teach unconditional Eternal Security:

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. - Ephesians 4:29-32 (Holy Bible)


We are sealed unto the day of Redemption. That verse clearly teaches that the true Born again believer has unconditional eternal security.

 

[starfield]

And also that they will lose Eternal Rewards at the Judgegment Seat of Christ as well as Crowns, and their Millennial Inheritance. The only thing that they cannot lose is their salvation.

Hi ChosenbyHim,

Eternal consequence of sin as per scripture: Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:7-8. I don’t know how y’all get around those passages. It’s pretty clear what the eternal consequence of sin is. Also note that Paul was addressing believers in Galatians.

Secondly, where in the scripture does it say millennial inheritance can be lost? Please provide passages that clearly state so.

Lastly, premeditated sin leads to spiritual death (James 1:14-15) which would necessitate repentance. See the instance of the Prodigal son. As believers, the Holy Spirit is our Guide who reveals to us any sin in our life hence the Psalmist's prayer in Psalms 139:23-24, and when they come to our knowledge the proper attitude is to ask God for His grace to overcome.

Thanks.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Hi ChosenbyHim,

Eternal consequence of sin as per scripture: Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:7-8. I don’t know how y’all get around those passages. It’s pretty clear what the eternal consequence of sin is. Also note that Paul was addressing believers in Galatians.

Secondly, where in the scripture does it say millennial inheritance can be lost? Please provide passages that clearly state so.

Lastly, premeditated sin leads to spiritual death (James 1:14-15) which would necessitate repentance. See the instance of the Prodigal son. As believers, the Holy Spirit is our Guide who reveals to us any sin in our life hence the Psalmist's prayer in Psalms 139:23-24, and when they come to our knowledge the proper attitude is to ask God for His grace to overcome.

Thanks.

Okay I will be sure to look that up in regard to your question in the matter of our Millennial Inheritance. Just understand something though Starfield, one of our rewards would have to be stewardship over certain land during the Millennial Kingdom, because after the Judgment of the Nations at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ will set up His Millennial Kingdom.

Well yes, every true Christian should be getting sin out of his or her life, I agree with that. And yes, we should be asking God for grace to overcome, especially certain sins that we may be still struggling with at times. I also agree with that, but you have to understand that Christians do not stay saved in regard to their obedience. They stay saved by the keeping and power of God. When Jesus Christ said it was finished, referring to His atoning sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, He meant it. His sacrifice was enough and is enough to save us and to keep us saved.

 

[svedbygrace]

Re: More Eternal Security Truth !

By the way, that verse does not negate repentance. God will not save anyone that refuse to turn to Him in faith and continue in their wickedness.

You continually cling to that ONE verse in efforts to deny biblical repentance but it won't be your alibi on Judgment day. God expects that man repents in order to be reconciled to Him (Acts 17:30, 2 Cor. 5:20b).

The elect, those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies, unrepentant, unbelievers.