Why doesn't God make himself clearer?

Stuey · Jun 12, 2013

Hello guys, my friend who has been coming along to bible study asked me a question that half stumped me today. I wasn't quite sure of how to answer it. He is - at the moment an agnostic/atheistish, not entirely sure. He isn't opposed to Christianity and I get the impression he would like to believe - he likes a lot of Christian things - but just doesn't think it makes sense. The parts he particularly stumbles over is the creation story.

My bible study - we are neither evolutionist nor literal 7 day creation - we don't view how God made the world as particularly important but more the why. - the group holds a variety of views.

His query is essentially this.

Why didn't God make Genesis in a way that is clear, testable and verifiable. Why doesn't he make the bible easier to understand? What would he have to lose from doing so?

Thoughts?

kaytyndy · Jun 12, 2013

If you do not have the Spirit, it is hard to understand the Bible. and thats why the Devil knows the scripture but has no understanding of it. tell your friend to pray before reading the word. for him to get understanding, he should do what is right and shun from evil as stated in the Word. Then gradually, he will understand Job 28:28

Stuey · Jun 12, 2013

He is a person who bases much of his reason on logic kaytyndy... if he doesn't believe God exists, praying won't make much sense to him.

iTOREtheSKY · Jun 12, 2013

I don't know why it is,but I'm still shocked when people say that they don't believe there's a God who created all this. No matter how analytical or cynical I ever got,it always just seemed so obvious there was a God. I wonder sometimes if we have a hard time understanding the bible,simply due to the fall of man through sin nature. I know that we are born again through Jesus & what he's done for us..becoming a new creation in him,but the bible says we have the mind of Christ...to renew our minds daily through His word...to put off the old man...we now have the Holy Spirit within us,yet His ways are higher than ours. In the book of JOB,God gives it to him straight..."Where were you when I formed the heavens & the sea?" As humans we tend to feel God owes us reasons for why & what He does. Personally I think if he were to reveal to us certain things,our human minds just simply could not comprehend what we'd be seeing or receiving. God has given us instruction & some very basic things he's asked/commanded us to do,and we struggle with that. Why then would He feel the need to or feel we could be trusted with more information? That's just my take. I find so much of the bible clear,testable & verifiable that the parts I don't clearly understand...well,that's why were are given the measure of faith!

Stuey · Jun 12, 2013

I don't feel like telling him to read job is the loving thing to do in this situation... Quite frankly it would simply offend him. This is your perspective coming from a Christian background - You need to think about it from a Non-Christians perspective. Do you know many non-Christians ItoretheSky? Like ones that would actually call themselves atheists? To deal with these kind of people we need to be able to answer questions like...

Why is the bible trustworthy? Why is it reliable?

Why doesn't God make Genesis much clearer than it is? Why is there little evidence for a 6000 year old world, and if it isn't meant to be taken literally, why doesn't is say that clearly? Why wouldn't God write that, if he knew?

sandtigeress · Jun 12, 2013

One reason, that is purely worldly, is that the bible is quite old. God created a book, that speaks to all people in all the ages.
The people in jesus time for example read the scrolls that became the old testament.
So the bible is written in a way that they understand it (with their cultural background) and we understand it (with our cultural background). To want a book, that talkes only in our cultural subset, would not be a book, that stood the ages.

for example that the timeline in the creation (gen) told is the same one, that evolutionaries found, is too me a great sign about the "god given" quality of the bible, because those people writing genesis, they did not have our science but they got it right.

jerusalem · Jun 12, 2013

many things are taken on faith even for unbelievers. it is a matter of what you have faith in that makes the difference. even science has to start every theory from a position of faith that certain unprovable facts are in evidence and accept them as a given in order to progress to the next step. things get complicated in the God verses science debate when you begin to realize that many things are suppressed by the scientific community. a good example of this is the evidence supporting the earth's crust of granite having formed within a matter of minutes. please feel free to check this out. but feel free to check out evidence in support of creation as well. there is way more of it than you would suspect since most christians don't reference this information in debate as they feel it will take away from their need for faith. only you can decide who you will believe and why but that you have come to chat seeking answers i would think that you believe in the possibility already. i truly hope you find the answers and if you need to begin with scientific evidence thats fine. many scientists have converted to creation science since the discovery of dna. they may refer to it as intelligent design and claim aliens are responsible but then you have to figure out where the aliens came from and even the archeological evidence for aliens when broken down and analyzed supports God. seek and ye shall find. ask and it shall be given, knock and the door shall be opened unto you. happy hunting dear

iTOREtheSKY · Jun 12, 2013

Stuey said:

I'm not suggesting he reads JOB. I'd say 85% of the people I know/friends with are non-christians,and I know at least 30% are admitted atheists or agnostic. My ex-wife & her entire family were atheists! I have gotten into several debates with those kinds of people. The thing is that most atheists don't want to believe in God,most of the ones I've spoken with,were actually raised around some sort of religious upbringing,and were soured by it. I know of at least 5 people who said to me that they stopped believing in God when they were kids...2 of them said because if there was a God,then why would he let my parents get a divorce & have our lives turn out so horribly,if he supposedly loves people? The other 3 were also kids and said they lost their belief in God when they were told in school about evolution & the missing link,etc... that Darwin was right,so because teachers in school drilled it into their heads that there could be nothing that was omnipotent,they believed it. The only way any one is going to believe God is who & what He says he is,when it comes down to it is faith & most people who are atheists don't want to hear that. I don't feel I need to be able to answer questions like why is the bible trustworthy or reliable...where is that mandate??? It's the Spirit of God that calls men unto him. I could give an unbeliever all the facts in the world to support God,the bible & christianity...it doesn't mean a hill of beans to someone who's heart & mind is hardened & unreceptive. The truth is the truth...unchanging...facts change & can be twisted. Let the atheists in your life know that more & more scientists each day are admitting that the idea of evolution is bogus & that there must be a God that brought life to all of this we see.

Liamson · Jun 12, 2013

The book of Genesis was written to a specific people at a specific time so that they could understand the nature of their relationship with God.

A book has an intended purpose, and it fulfills it masterfully.

dyingeveryday · Jun 12, 2013

I understand this way of thinking. But it's all this why talk. God is God, He already saved us from our own sin. All he asks is that we believe. Given what he went through on the cross it's really pretty simple. Until anyone understands that Jesus is real and what He went through....until they decide to believe I don't know that they will understand other things. It took me believing and seeking to start to really understand anything because once God went to work inside me He revealed himself through His word. I have had many many atheist and agnostic friends. They love to debate and argue and they would have loved for me to bend things so far for them that I would change who God is. You can be loving but in my experience what people have wanted to do in discussion such as this is change my view.

prodigal · Jun 12, 2013

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GRA · Jun 12, 2013

Stuey said:

God:

~ wants us to Love, Trust, and Worship Him.
~ wants us to give ourselves over to Him.
~ wants us to totally depend on Him.
~ wants us to realize - and never forget - just how far above us He really is.
~ does not impart His Knowledge, Understanding, and Wisdom to "fools"...

In His infinite brilliance, God has structured His Word so that one "can only get out of it what they put into it" -- and, having multiple "levels" of depth - "only to the extent of how much they put into it"...

God has made it so that we cannot understand Him or His Word without His help. ( There are certain things He has made "obvious" so that everyone understands them. The rest is "concealed in righteousness" and reserved for those who are willing to "yield" themselves to Him. )

God only imparts His Knowledge, Understanding, and Wisdom to those who are truly interested - having the proper attitude towards Him and His Word. If we first humble ourselves before God, He will impart to us that which He wants us to know.

God does not want a "fool" to know more than is necessary to cause him/her to humble themselves before God - after which, he/she may be ready to "get more understanding"...

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. ~ Proverbs 1:7

The closer we get to God - the more He helps us to understand about Him and His Word. Interestingly, the reverse is also true. If we get too far away from God ( having been closer ), He can cause us to "loose" [some of] that which we once had. I say this based on first-hand experience. After we are again "closer" - we may "recover" that which was lost.

"Why doesn't he make the bible easier to understand?"

He has made it so that we have to do it His way...

He wants us to "test and verify" by faith, not by logic...

GRA · Jun 12, 2013

Stuey said:

Genesis was not meant to show evidence - it was meant to tell "what is" ( what God did ) - the evidence is all around us in the physical universe. And, there is loads and loads of it everywhere. It is up to us to open our eyes and see it - and believe it...

EDIT: The evidence testifies of that which is recorded in Genesis.

TigerScent777 · Jun 12, 2013

Stuey said:

Because God wants you to find Him out of an intense desire for Him.

Jer 29:13 'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

God tests people and their hearts. His kingdom is not of this world nor realm. It is beyond dimension, yet it includes all dimension. You cannot measure infinite space with a ruler.

Consider this: Professor Donald and Daffy duck decide to measure the infinite God and outer space with their rulers and gadgets; and cannot find nor measure God - nor in fact understand the boundless nature of space. They then conclude, that their 'null hypothesis' fails to be rejected and that according to their rulers and gadgets - God and boundless space do not exist. However, can someone measure the extent and boundaries of the mind? the depths of emotion in the heart?

Consider this: NDE - A blind woman who had a life changing near death experience - YouTube A blind woman who never saw a thing from birth - sees on near death experience...

Man born blind can see during near death experience - YouTube

There are some truths that go way beyond the ordinary limitations of mans/womans thinking in this fallen world...

Yours friend needs to simply understand, that dealing with God; is way beyond the limitations of a 3-dimensional world and seeming reality, which is barely the tip of the iceberg of what 'is'....

Liamson · Jun 12, 2013

I'm not at all for diving into a slurry of superstitious behavior looking for God.

Jesus said people have the Law and the Prophets, no signs will change their mind.

A psychedelic supernatural experience, usually has nothing to do with God.

If you want to find God, I suggest Fasting and Praying. That is what the Apostles did. Even Jesus fasted.

BananaPie · Jun 12, 2013

Stuey said:

Well, the Bible is not for explaining Science, Mathematics, Genetics, Biochemistry, Human Anatomy & Physiology, Outer Space gravitational pull, Quantum Mechanics, Income Tax, iOS7 iPhone, etc...LOL

The Bible is about God's providence, Jesus Christ, and His holy idea in redeeming mankind.

Just the fact that any ol' atheist is very unwilling to intelligently read what IS already in the Bible is proof enough that "they aint thinkin' straight" no matter what is explained to 'em', I reckon. LOL.

It's almost as futile as explaining Jacobian matrices to you, and then an atheist asking why didn't God make determinants simple to understand. Like, dude, the Bible ain't no calculus textbook, or do you not understand what is a textbook? LOL

Therefore, in response to the OP question, my answer is I don't know why, and if I did know why, then I would be infinitely intelligent as God is, wouldn't I? :chuckles:

Stuey said:

Well, God does make most Bible themes well understood by simple minds like mine. It's really about perspective.

If I know I'm a sinner; I understand I need redemption, and I want to exist forever with God on God's terms, then like totally, the Bible makes uttermost sense to me.

I hardly would get stuck on mathematically testing, proving and verifying the facts about Genesis... because God's word is already satisfactory proof for me! Like, sweet!

Stuey said:

Well, God never loses anything, and He did create the Tree of Life as well as the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil...

The Bible states "who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor? Who has first given to God that He would repay? (Romans 11:36).

Just perhaps, for once, the atheist is learning how minimal the human mind really, really is, yet God is holy and humble enough to bypass our utter ignorance and has considered existing in harmony with the humans He so gracefully and wisely created for His good pleasure!

Shouryu · Jun 12, 2013

Chuck Missler still sums it up best: "A God small enough for our minds to comprehend is a God not big enough to meet our needs."

seoulsearch · Jun 12, 2013

I used to wonder why God didn't spell out a lot of things as well. After all, we humans can't agree on even a comma placement in the Bible ("I tell you the truth, today you will be with Me in Paradise" vs. "I tell you the truth today, you will be with Me in Paradise.")

Of course, I still wonder why God isn't more specific at times, but I read a very interesting analysis (and I'm so sorry I can't remember the title of the book), but the author gave the example of God laying down the law that every child under 11 years old would be saved, no matter what.

Cut and dry, black and white.

Do you know what would happen? the author reasonably asked. Christians would sacrifice their children right before their 11th birthday to make sure they went to heaven. And what happens if you were late? What if you "sent the child into the arms of God" 5 minutes after their 11th birth day, hour, and minute... would the child still be saved? The author suggested that God gives us only so much because of how badly we would continue to mess up any other revelation we were given.

The Bible also says that God will hold us accountable for what we know. Perhaps God holds some things back because He doesn't want to have to hold us accountable for them yet. And, by God's very nature, for whatever reasons we don't understand, God craves FAITH, which is impossible if we have everything set out for us.

I'm sorry this won't help your friend much

. I have unsaved people in my life as well, including family. I pray for them often, but unfortunately, it's not up to us to convince them. We are supposed to present the truth... and what they do with it is their own free will and decision.

danschance · Jun 12, 2013

Shouryu said:

I am going to steal this and use it as part of my signature on CC. Thankx.

Why doesn't God make himself clearer?

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