Prayers for a deceased loved one...?

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onlinebuddy

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
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Does prayer for a deceased loved one do anything for that person?
Why do people offer prayers and "masses" for those who are asleep.
Kindly enlighten me on the concept and origin of this tradition.
I do have my own beliefs, but just want to know your views.
 
There is nothing in scripture that says to pray or not to pray for the dead. I don't think we can pray for them once they have gone to hell or heaven.
 
I always consider the fact that the Lord is a living God, we pray to him as He is living and our saviour. It is very much part of the catholic faith to pray for deal loved one's as well as some apostolic churches that almost have wakes for the dead. If we had any "power" of a loved one's soul in the after life surely we would be the saviour's instead of the Lord?
 
It's out of our hands... we can only have faith and trust they will be 'ok.'
 
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
 
It does no good to pray for dead. If anything, they are praying for us. They are either in the presence of their savior because they were born again while alive, or in hades awaiting their judgment as crossnote pointed out.

we should be praying for the families. who are still on earth and still have hope (if they have not come to Christ)

once your dead, it is too late to make a decision if you have not already.
 
I believe it is a catholic church teaching. It is a real money maker for them. Masses for the deceased are not free. It is not a biblical teaching. Luke 16:19-31 would indicate there is no way to influence one beyond the grave. esp vs 26.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
It's out of our hands... we can only have faith and trust they will be 'ok.'
Click to expand...

You are apparently keeping this law "He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days. He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean. Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him."

And listening to Jesus when he said "let the dead bury their dead"

To worry about loved ones, or gloat for an enemy being doomed is what the old testament means when it refers to touching a corpse or being defiled by a corpse.
 
onlinebuddy said:
Does prayer for a deceased loved one do anything for that person?
Why do people offer prayers and "masses" for those who are asleep.
Kindly enlighten me on the concept and origin of this tradition.
I do have my own beliefs, but just want to know your views.
Click to expand...

They are dead. The dead know nothing...

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Until the resurrection...

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

They are neither in heaven or hell, but dead and awaiting their resurrection.
 
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starfield said:
Of course they are. Have you not read the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?
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Which is a parable...

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts:

To whom? The Pharisees.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Christ only spoke plainly to his disciples, in public He spoke in parables.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

But let's suppose that Luke 16 is actual teaching on the state of the afterlife. Let's notice a few things...

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The can see each other.

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

They can hear each other.

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

They CANNOT go to each other or affect each other.

So, now for the interesting dilemma this poses. If this is not a parable, if this is how it really is, then saved mothers in heaven can see their lost children burning in hell. These mothers can hear their shrieks and screams but they cannot do anything about it. And this goes on for all eternity.

Is this your picture of heaven?
 
If I get a chance, I will look up an interesting site that gave an explanation of what the parable is really about. Give me a little time.
 
notuptome said:
I believe it is a catholic church teaching. It is a real money maker for them. Masses for the deceased are not free. It is not a biblical teaching. Luke 16:19-31 would indicate there is no way to influence one beyond the grave. esp vs 26.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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True that the Catholic church makes money. However, the money received from masses for the dead is negligible as compared to the other income (from renting out marriage halls, renting out church grounds, financial aid, etc).

Praying for the dead has something to do with the Catholic doctrine. I wish to know the reasoning behind this tradition. Furthermore, Catholic priests never enforce this tradition. It is the Catholic community that makes this tradition mandatory. Most Catholics would feel guilty (and make others guilty) if they did not offer masses for their deceased loved ones. Maybe they are motivated by fear and guilt, i don't know. I would like to know more from my Catholic brothers and sisters.
 
The only verses I am familiar with that could perhaps fit within this line of inquiry are these;

[h=3]1 Corinthians 15:28-30[/h]

[SUP]28 [/SUP]When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? [SUP]30 [/SUP]Why are we also in danger every hour?

These verses actually pertain more to resurrection with just the hint of doing anything "for" the dead within it. Scripture does not tell us specifically to pray for the dead but it does not tell us not to. OFten when I am praying I am led by the spirit to pray for some particular person and sometimes even over specific circumstances for that person. I have never felt lead by the spirit to pray for someone who is dead.

That being said, I would like to share one specific experience I had that does fall somewhat within this question. When my father died I still had questions over his salvation. I had spent many hours in prayer for him and trusted God to answer my prayers but I had no substantial reason to be certain which I would have preferred. I didn't exactly pray for my father after he died but these things were in my heart. To give a little insight, my father and I had a strained relationship. I hated him most of my life. Eventually I got past the hate and forgave but I never really liked him. No mistake that I loved him and he loved me but we were not close by any means.

There are times I set aside for prayer. During these times when I pray I pray prostrate. There are times I set aside for prayer and fasting. During the next time I was fasting and praying after my father died (a couple of months after) I was praying this way and "getting into it" you might say. So this is the circumstances. Third day of my fast, face down on the floor, praying like there is no tomorrow and I had a vision.

The vision was of my Dad beside Jesus and my dad was pointing down at me saying that's my boy look at him go! Now maybe this was my own imagination. Since I was very young the thing that was most important to me was that my father would be proud of me. Eventually when I was around 30 I gave up on that hope or the idea of it because it just wasn't every going to happen and I thought it best to be realistic. So I am sure its possible that this vision could just be wishful thinking.
I will tell you this, since then I have never had any more concern for my fathers salvation. I have also felt very satisfied that my father is now, and always was very proud of me but was just unable to say so.

Oh as I have been writing this God gave me another verse to share with you. It is a very familiar one to most of us. Do not worry about anything but in everything by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving; present your requests to God and the peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus.(ph. 4:6-7)

So I have said all this to explain my answer. I don't know what I should pray for. I pray for whomever I think of in whatever circumstances they are in over many details of things. I trust God to burden me to pray for who and what He wants me to.
I consider that many people suffer burdens which they worry over. We know worry accomplishes nothing, and it is exactly what satan wants us to do with something God has given us to fulfill HIs purpose. I believe the burdens come from God. I do not worry, I pray. I pray just as the word says, with all sorts of prayers and supplications with thanksgiving, I present my requests to God. I can testify this witness of God, that HE certainly does keep me within this peace that surpasses all understanding.

IF anyone has some concern or worry over a person who is deceased I believe they should pray as the word says, with all sorts of prayers and supplications. I do believe prayer is a form of worship. I direct my prayers to God, whom I call Father because Jesus taught us to pray, "our Father." Whatever burden you have in your heart for yourself or anyone else dead or alive, pray as the word says; with all sorts of prayers and supplications with thanksgiving.

May God's grace and peace be with each of you.
 
john832 said:
Which is a parable...

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts:

To whom? The Pharisees.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Christ only spoke plainly to his disciples, in public He spoke in parables.
Click to expand...
The story of the Rich man and Lazarus clearly depicts what happens after physical death - continuation of consciousness in eternity. Saints’ eternal spirit goes to be with the Lord immediately after death as indicated here...
Ecc 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Acts 7:59 - And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Pretty self-explanatory.
2 Cor 5:8 - We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Paul longed to be absent from his physical body, in essence die, and for his spirit to be present with the Lord in Heaven awaiting the resurrection.
 
enoch1nine said:
You are apparently keeping this law "He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days. He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean. Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him. This was nullified by the Cross.

And listening to Jesus when he said "let the dead bury their dead This refers to the SPIRITUALLY DEAD (those not saved through Christ) taking care of the mundane matters of the natural realm so they, those born again and followers of Christ, can pursue Kingdom things.

To worry about loved ones, or gloat for an enemy being doomed is what the old testament means when it refers to touching a corpse or being defiled by a corpse HUH??? No, those verse specifically refer to the physical touching of a corpse. It was part of the Levitical law.
Click to expand...
 
joeyruready said:
The only verses I am familiar with that could perhaps fit within this line of inquiry are these;

1 Corinthians 15:28-30



[SUP]28 [/SUP]When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? [SUP]30 [/SUP]Why are we also in danger every hour?

These verses actually pertain more to resurrection with just the hint of doing anything "for" the dead within it. Scripture does not tell us specifically to pray for the dead but it does not tell us not to. OFten when I am praying I am led by the spirit to pray for some particular person and sometimes even over specific circumstances for that person. I have never felt lead by the spirit to pray for someone who is dead.

That being said, I would like to share one specific experience I had that does fall somewhat within this question. When my father died I still had questions over his salvation. I had spent many hours in prayer for him and trusted God to answer my prayers but I had no substantial reason to be certain which I would have preferred. I didn't exactly pray for my father after he died but these things were in my heart. To give a little insight, my father and I had a strained relationship. I hated him most of my life. Eventually I got past the hate and forgave but I never really liked him. No mistake that I loved him and he loved me but we were not close by any means.

There are times I set aside for prayer. During these times when I pray I pray prostrate. There are times I set aside for prayer and fasting. During the next time I was fasting and praying after my father died (a couple of months after) I was praying this way and "getting into it" you might say. So this is the circumstances. Third day of my fast, face down on the floor, praying like there is no tomorrow and I had a vision.

The vision was of my Dad beside Jesus and my dad was pointing down at me saying that's my boy look at him go! Now maybe this was my own imagination. Since I was very young the thing that was most important to me was that my father would be proud of me. Eventually when I was around 30 I gave up on that hope or the idea of it because it just wasn't every going to happen and I thought it best to be realistic. So I am sure its possible that this vision could just be wishful thinking.
I will tell you this, since then I have never had any more concern for my fathers salvation. I have also felt very satisfied that my father is now, and always was very proud of me but was just unable to say so.

Oh as I have been writing this God gave me another verse to share with you. It is a very familiar one to most of us. Do not worry about anything but in everything by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving; present your requests to God and the peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus.(ph. 4:6-7)

So I have said all this to explain my answer. I don't know what I should pray for. I pray for whomever I think of in whatever circumstances they are in over many details of things. I trust God to burden me to pray for who and what He wants me to.
I consider that many people suffer burdens which they worry over. We know worry accomplishes nothing, and it is exactly what satan wants us to do with something God has given us to fulfill HIs purpose. I believe the burdens come from God. I do not worry, I pray. I pray just as the word says, with all sorts of prayers and supplications with thanksgiving, I present my requests to God. I can testify this witness of God, that HE certainly does keep me within this peace that surpasses all understanding.

IF anyone has some concern or worry over a person who is deceased I believe they should pray as the word says, with all sorts of prayers and supplications. I do believe prayer is a form of worship. I direct my prayers to God, whom I call Father because Jesus taught us to pray, "our Father." Whatever burden you have in your heart for yourself or anyone else dead or alive, pray as the word says; with all sorts of prayers and supplications with thanksgiving.

May God's grace and peace be with each of you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. Your feelings and prayers about your father sound pretty normal. Why not? Prayer is the most effective tool (and a privilege) that we are given. You were just expressing your feelings and concerns to God about your father, which is the right thing to do. You never made a doctrine of it.

My purpose of posting this questions was to understand why so many people think they can help the dead in some way by praying. I think the concept of purgatory comes into play. Most people who pray for their deceased loved ones believe that they can relieve them of the sufferings of purgatory or something. Still waiting for answers from my Catholic brothers and sisters.
 
onlinebuddy said:
Does prayer for a deceased loved one do anything for that person?
Why do people offer prayers and "masses" for those who are asleep.
Kindly enlighten me on the concept and origin of this tradition.
I do have my own beliefs, but just want to know your views.
Click to expand...

Matthew 22:32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Whom does you considered to be the deceased? After we leave on good terms, we should have eternal life. So having eternal life shouldn't be called the deceased. People has been mourning the dead for centuries, and had started rituals andso that one day that they'll be together again. These rituals were made because they can't let go of the deceased.

John 11:44The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face. Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”
 
This was nullified by the Cross.
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It is very important to learn exactly what was nullified by the cross. Actually, nothing was nullified, as Christ himself explained. The cross and Christ completed many things, and made many things that were a shadow of Him unnecessary any more, but nothing at all was nullified. If it is stated in the OT, it is carried on and made complete in the new or it stands as the OT tells us. God is eternal, God never has changed, what was true of God 2,000 years before Christ is just as true 2,000 years after Christ lived on earth. Which, by the way is also eternal or something couldn't be a shadow of something that wasn't eternal.
 
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