gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

[eternally-gratefull]

So, we just keep on doing the things we did? The Law no longer applies...

So we fool ourselves into thinking we are good people and worthy of God salvation? How do you think you could ever do this?? Do you not get it that it takes 100% obedience 24/7 to even think about being worthy, and even then, your still unworthy for your past sin, and the sin you will commit in the future?

this is the problem with legalism. It all sounds good. it all sounds right and just, But it is from satan, it fools people into thinking they are better than everyone else, instead of giving God credit where credit is due, and realising, as Paul did, we are still wretched people undeserving of Gods grace. And while knowing this, can continue to run the race, and can BOLDLY come to God when we mess up, Because we KNOW he still loves us..

Your message sounds like a message of light, it sounds great, But even Satan comes as an angel of light, Your message is a message of darkness. and will only lead people to hell!

No one is worthy of salvation, but God does not give salvation to the unrepentant. ONe who continues in sin...

John says a repentant one CAN'T continue in sin. So did John lie? Do you really think God is going to save someone who is not truly repentant?? Again, you have a flawed idea of who God is if you think this!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You missed the point, the prodigal son was DEAD in his state of living the riotous (sinful) life. He had to change, he had to go back to his father and had to leave the riotous (sinful) life behind. He had to quit sinning. His father did not go to him in the pig pen and tell him everything is fine just continue however you wish, my grace is all you need.

no, You missed the point. If the son died while he was away, he would have been taken to the father and the father would have buried him as his son.

He never stopped being the son. His father did not kick him out of his family.

why you think God will is beyond me..

 

[john832]

1. As good as dead is not the same as being dead no is it?[/B]

My mistake, the scripture says DEAD...

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

2. Did he ever stop being the son?

I had a dog once, but that dog is dead. Is it still my dog?

3. Did not his father say get the food before the son even confessed? he was already forgiven. why? He was still the son.

And why?

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

The son returned to his father and then the merrymeant was made. Was the merrymeant going on while the son was lost? Did they have a feast everyday while he was gone? They had the feast AFTER he returned to the father, after he repented...

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Joy over the sinner? Or is it over the repentance of a sinner.

He lost access to his gods blessings. A child of God who walks away as a prodigal son loses our heavenly fathers blessings, We are as good as dead. Our lives will get worse until we come back, or die (I know, I was a prodigal son for 5 years.. My life sucked, and it was this that brought me back. Just like it brough the prodigal son back) but I NEVER stopped being my fathers (Abba fathers) Son!

[/B][/COLOR]

A child of god who walks away loses what?

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Now as to him being the son...

Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Yep he was a DEAD son. Upon repentance he was alive AGAIN.

 

[Wall]

try explaining to him what this means.

what is faith?
Who is this faith in? (Self and law or Christ and his death) etc...

Why don't ya ask the saints

Revelation 14 {12} Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your opinion is noted. Now lets see what the scriptures say.

MATT.7 [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

PSALMS 119 [113] I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.[114] Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.[115] DEPART FROM ME, YE EVILDOERS: FOR I WILL KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF MY GOD.[116] Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.

Depart from me! Seems there will be many people who will be saying “I believe” when Jesus returns. Who had talked of Jesus and spoke in his name. Some that even have cast out devils in the name of Jesus. But “in that day” Jesus will say to “the many”, depart from me...I never knew you.

1JOHN2 [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4] He that saith, i know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Theres the people who know God and will be saved. They that observe to keep Gods 10 commandments.

TITUS 1 [13] This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, AND COMMANDMENTS OF MEN, that turn from the truth. [15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [16] THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, AND DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work reprobate.

In Titus you will find people that profess they know God (they say they believe) but in works they deny Him. They do not know God.

You missed a very important part of what Jesus will say.. Which proves that you can not lose salvation. but you never had it in the first place.

your right. many people believe and think they are saved, and do many things.. It does not mean they were ever saved, As james said, Demons believe, yet tremble.. Who is our faith in? our works or in Christ?

notice what Jesus said.

MATT.7 [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

You see. Like many people. they read the jist of the passage, but they forget key words.

I NEVER KNEW YOU.

these are not people who were saved at one time, and lost it because they did not live up to some standard and disobay, These are people who NEVER KNEW CHRIST and CHRIST NEVER KNEW THEM.

they were never adopted by Christ and brought into a relationship with him.. EVER!

 

[zone]

Skinski in blue.



Instead of a willingness to actually discuss things (or defend your misuse of Scripture) you just call me a name and basically dismiss everything on that basis.

What is a Pelagian? I would like to see you define it. It is very easy to succumb to the use of ad-hominem in order to bypass specific issues which are brought up.

WHAT MISUSE OF SCRIPTURE?

it's you who has this weird obsession with reverse-engineering your saved date; your holiness; your heart purity to sometime when you were actually DEAD in trespasses and sins, and AT WAR WITH GOD.

you figure your purification of your heart happened while it was still STONE.
what rubbish.

none of those passages you quote were about or to YOU - they were to and about the people who were given the LAW and the Temple.
you're a gentile in the 21st century who heard the Gsoepl and was shown mercy. and now turns from sin.

GOOD FOR YOU!

but the God you teach NOW does not save whom He wills according to HIS MERCY, but your god saves those who make themselves clean FIRST.

Romans 9:16
So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

real simple SkinskiPelagian:

all men are condemned already.
i don't care if they commit their first sin at 2 or 22 - ALL CONDEMNED.
some are brought to repentance and faith in Christ through the GRACE OF GOD,
through His means, THE GOSPEL.

please use your gnosis and do a thorough study of the greek word AGO (led) in relation to the Holy Spirit and His certain deliverance AND sanctification of the sealed Christian.

smarten up Skinski.
we get your personalized rebellion vs sin thing.

and your weirdo teacher Mike DeSario who is anti-church; anti-Gospel; anti- Substitutionary Atonement.
post your Hermes or your Finney or your Reformation-invented-it doctrine OR...go here and then come back and tell me if you made yourself clean in any way at all that matters eternally.

please get a grip on HOW HOLY GOD IS.
and how impure you still are.

Leviticus: Seedbed of NT Theology

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/57882-leviticus-seedbed-nt-theology.html


thx.
bye

 

[john832]

No one ever seems to explain this one to me...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[john832]

You missed a very important part of what Jesus will say.. Which proves that you can not lose salvation. but you never had it in the first place.

Well, lemme see...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

What do you suppose these have tasted? Pumpkin pie?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have nothing close to tremendous insight hahaha. It came from caring what God says, and the people who bug me here on this site.

Proverbs 1:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 The fear ( or revere , it can be translated the Strong;s shows, depending . )
of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

If you live in fear. you do not know God at all..

 

[starfield]

In believing in Jesus we submit to God's righteousness. Therefore our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3, and through his sacrifice we have been sanctified (Heb 10:10), made holy (Rom 11:16), perfected (Heb 10:14), and righteous.

Demons and non-believers do not submit to His righteousness. Non-believers sometimes turn to righteousness by works of the law to be perfected by the flesh rather than submit to God's righteousness.

Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.

In other words there will be heart purity, fruit of repentance, close communion with God, bearing the fruit of the Spirit, etc., after salvation because of Christ in us, right?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My mistake, the scripture says DEAD...

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.



I had a dog once, but that dog is dead. Is it still my dog?



And why?

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

The son returned to his father and then the merrymeant was made. Was the merrymeant going on while the son was lost? Did they have a feast everyday while he was gone? They had the feast AFTER he returned to the father, after he repented...

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Joy over the sinner? Or is it over the repentance of a sinner.

[/B][/COLOR]

A child of god who walks away loses what?

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Now as to him being the son...

Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Yep he was a DEAD son. Upon repentance he was alive AGAIN.

Your whole picture is destroyed.

You Dog died physically. the son did not. thus does not compair.

My son was dead (he was still the son) We are still Gods son.

He never stopped being the son.. If you think he did. keep thinking it.

 

[notuptome]

please get a grip on HOW HOLY GOD IS.
and how impure you still are.
thx.
bye

Now there is an admonition for all to heed.
What is man that thou are mindful of him? Ps 8:4

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[nathan3]

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

If you live in fear. you do not know God at all..

I guess it can even depend on who you are. If your someone that loves listens and does God's will, then you can say that person reveres their Heavenly Father.

On the other hand ;

If some one is a murder , ripoff artist , and does hates God, then you can say, if anyone had reason to fear God, it would be someone that lives that kind of life.

 

[yoshiya]

this may not apply so forgive me if it doesn't... Romans 6:1-7

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why don't ya ask the saints

Revelation 14 {12} Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Ask them what?

Those who have true repentance, True faith, and this have true salvation will do the commands of God.. it is not an iff question, they will. John says they WILL overcome the world, and they can not sin, do you deny John??

1 John 5:
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. [SUP]2 [/SUP]By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[SUP][a][/SUP] faith. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?


[SUP]10 [/SUP]He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. [SUP]12 [/SUP]He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. [SUP]13 [/SUP]These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,[SUP][d][/SUP] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 John 3:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Do you not understand what it means when he sees whoever lives in sin has NEVER KNOWN OR SEEN HIM? It means they were NEVER SAVED!!


[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[Grandpa]

I have nothing close to tremendous insight hahaha. It came from caring what God says, and the people who bug me here on this site.

Proverbs 1:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 The fear ( or revere , it can be translated the Strong;s shows, depending . )
of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

2 Corinthians 5:11-17
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Hebrews 8:5-7

[SUP]5[/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

 

[john832]

this may not apply so forgive me if it doesn't... Romans 6:1-7

Actually, it most certainly applies and it fits nicely here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one ever seems to explain this one to me...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1. The guy thought he was already righteous by the law.
2. Jesus said do these things
3. He said he did.
4. jesus proved him wrong by showing him he did not love the lord with all his heart and his neighbor. jesus knew his heart. and showed all who where there that even though we may have never broken any of these pet sins, we still are sinners..

He also said one thing no one seemed to get. There is no one good (worthy) but God. the conversation should have stopped there. Instead of being proud he did not disobay those commands, he should have repented and said yes i have done those, but I am not perfect my Lord, i have broken other ones.. so what do i need?

that is why the pharisees rejected Christ. he said there was NO OTHER WAY but through him and his death. This guy loved self more than God. No repentance. thus no salvation!

The people in John 6 made the same mistake.

"what must we do to work the works of God?

Jesus answered them, it is THE WORK OF GOD that YOU BELIEVE in the one he sent.

The ones who did not believe were offended by everything else Jesus said, why? they did not get it, they still thought they could work their way in, The disciples did get it, "you have the WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE) it is not works, it is words.

faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God..

 

[john832]

2 Corinthians 5:11-17
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Hebrews 8:5-7

[SUP]5[/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Uh, what was the fault with the first Covenant?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The fault was with the people...

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

And what was there error?

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess it can even depend on who you are. If your someone that loves listens and does God's will, then you can say that person reveres their Heavenly Father.

On the other hand ;

If some one is a murder , ripoff artist , and does hates God, then you can say, if anyone had reason to fear God, it would be someone that lives that kind of life.

David was a murderer, and an adulterer until the day he died (he had many wives). God called him a man after his own heart.

be careful what you say.. God hates the sin not the sinner, that is why he came to die.

this does not mean we should go out murdering and raping, we would be foolish to do this. But people who do not know God can obey commands.. Will that save them?? they are no more worthy or less worthy than any man who ever walked the earth.. It is God who saved, based on the redemption purchased by the blood of Christ, Not our good deeds. we will never be good enough to earn salvation. EVER!