I don't know. Its like a run away fire around here
1 John 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.
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I don't know. Its like a run away fire around here
1 John 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
You wanted scripture, you have it!
Yes. But it sure don't look like its out of Hebrews. I already stated you cannot be saved by the works of the law. We are as filthy rags. Whats your point?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I don't know. Its like a run away fire around here
1 John 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Goes right along with John 3:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6[/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
so who are those who keep gods commands?? John tells us!
1. Those trying to be saved? No
2. Those trying to keep being saved? No.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
3. The correct answer is ALL who have been born of God.. you must be born first!
lol..
what good are sacrifices if there is no command?
Keep trying to think you are getting it.. Your not helping your case.
The law and commands have to go together otherwise there is no point.
Commands without a law of what to do when you break them mean nothing
A law without commands are meaningless.. because you could never be guilty of anything to have a reason for the law.
Are you having trouble with the word COMMANDMENTS? Theres 10 ya know. You wont turn into dust if you say the word. Who knows it just might set you free
1. The guy thought he was already righteous by the law.
2. Jesus said do these things
3. He said he did.
4. jesus proved him wrong by showing him he did not love the lord with all his heart and his neighbor. jesus knew his heart. and showed all who where there that even though we may have never broken any of these pet sins, we still are sinners..
He also said one thing no one seemed to get. There is no one good (worthy) but God. the conversation should have stopped there. Instead of being proud he did not disobay those commands, he should have repented and said yes i have done those, but I am not perfect my Lord, i have broken other ones.. so what do i need?
that is why the pharisees rejected Christ. he said there was NO OTHER WAY but through him and his death. This guy loved self more than God. No repentance. thus no salvation!
The people in John 6 made the same mistake.
"what must we do to work the works of God?
Jesus answered them, it is THE WORK OF GOD that YOU BELIEVE in the one he sent.
The ones who did not believe were offended by everything else Jesus said, why? they did not get it, they still thought they could work their way in, The disciples did get it, "you have the WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE) it is not works, it is words.
faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God..
So the moral of the story is what? Don't do these things? Not what Christ said.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yes. But it sure don't look like its out of Hebrews. I already stated you cannot be saved by the works of the law. We are as filthy rags. Whats your point?
lol. whats my point? doing good deeds, and knowing what sin is so you are not disobedient is part of the law..
you claim we must do this or we will not be saved.. thus you are following law.. are you not??
what did Paul say (by the way, most people believe Paul wrote hebrews)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[SUP][h][/SUP] who believe. For there is no difference; [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [SUP]26 [/SUP]to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Again, how can you have a knowledge of sin without the commands? You can't!
More importantly, can scripture contradict itself?? If it can, it is useless is it not?? Paul can't tell us one thing in one place. and something else in another, nore can anyone else contradict him, otherwise scripture is null and void, it is all a big contradictory lie.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So the moral of the story is what? Don't do these things? Not what Christ said.
Nope. the moral of the story is, no matter how good we think we are. No matter how good we believe we have fulfilled the law (i have never commited murder, adultry, rape, I have loved my parents etc etc) we are still not good enough to enter heaven, for ALL have sinned and have fallen short (missed the mark) of the glory (just requirement) of God..
Uh, what was the fault with the first Covenant?
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
The fault was with the people...
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
And what was there error?
Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Romans 8:2-8
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
All you need to do is come to Christ and He will show you.
David was a murderer, and an adulterer until the day he died (he had many wives). God called him a man after his own heart.
Now this is an insteresting statement. Are you saying that God heart is to be a murderer and adulterer?
be careful what you say.. God hates the sin not the sinner, that is why he came to die.
this does not mean we should go out murdering and raping, we would be foolish to do this. But people who do not know God can obey commands.. Will that save them?? they are no more worthy or less worthy than any man who ever walked the earth.. It is God who saved, based on the redemption purchased by the blood of Christ, Not our good deeds. we will never be good enough to earn salvation. EVER!
Here is where your understanding seems to lack, David was a repentant sinner...
Psa 51:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Psa 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psa 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
Psa 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Psa 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
Psa 51:15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Psa 51:18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psa 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
David was not a practicing murderer or a practicing adulterer. He was a repentant murderer and a repentant adulterer.
And as far as ever earning salvation, what part of...
If one keeps the law perfectly for 100 lifetimes of 100 years each, he cannot earn salvation, it is the gift of God.
Don't you understand? I have posted that who knows how many times.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Are you having trouble with the word COMMANDMENTS? Theres 10 ya know. You wont turn into dust if you say the word. Who knows it just might set you free
No. there are way more than ten. there are literally hundreds..
and the commands can set me free?? How? I have already failed.. Thus I am already guilty.
As paul said, if the commands could set me free. Christ came in vein.. He died for nothing!
Romans 8:2-8
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
All you need to do is come to Christ and He will show you.
God says the carnal mind cannot be subject to His Law. OK, I believe that.
How does one fulfill the righteousness of 'Thou shalt not commit adultery.' while having a go at the neighbors spouse? Don't you have to obey in the letter as well as the spirit? Or is it OK to think nice thoughts while breaking the letter?
No. there are way more than ten. there are literally hundreds..
and the commands can set me free?? How? I have already failed.. Thus I am already guilty.
As paul said, if the commands could set me free. Christ came in vein.. He died for nothing!
Yep, you are guilty, and so am I. Glad that grace allows forgiveness for breaking these Laws.
How about reconciling these scriptures...
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Nope. the moral of the story is, no matter how good we think we are. No matter how good we believe we have fulfilled the law (i have never commited murder, adultry, rape, I have loved my parents etc etc) we are still not good enough to enter heaven, for ALL have sinned and have fallen short (missed the mark) of the glory (just requirement) of God..
And that is what I have said all along. The only way you seem to present your case is to change what I say to a justification by works statement. Here is where justification comes from...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Justified by His shed blood.
Reconciled by His death.
Saved by His life.
lol. whats my point? doing good deeds, and knowing what sin is so you are not disobedient is part of the law..
you claim we must do this or we will not be saved.. thus you are following law.. are you not??
what did Paul say (by the way, most people believe Paul wrote hebrews)
Even Peter understood that Pauls writings were hard to understand.
2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.
Even to their own destruction
ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.
You make all these claims about Paul and the law. Looks like the Jews of Pauls time were saying the same things im hearing now from you. Paul set them straight. He has done nothing to offend the law of the Jews
Goes right along with John 3:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6[/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
I think you are misreading that. Verse 5 says 'He was manifested to take away sin', not He was manifested to take away the Law'.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
Now tell me what righteousness is?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
so who are those who keep gods commands?? John tells us!
1. Those trying to be saved? No
2. Those trying to keep being saved? No.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
3. The correct answer is ALL who have been born of God.. you must be born first!
And you do not understand the difference between born and begotten...
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
I have waded through 1 Cor 15 several times showing that we are not BORN until the resurrection.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Now this is an insteresting statement. Are you saying that God heart is to be a murderer and adulterer?
Nice way to twist someones words.
Do you understand what james meant when he said if we break even th eleast of the law. we are found guilty of breaking the whole law? do you even understand the meaning??
You think your better than a murderer? God says your not. You are both under sin, equally condemned.
But I guess since you think you have not murdered, you must not be that bad a person. Your looking at yourself from mans viewpoint, not Gods.
Here is where your understanding seems to lack, David was a repentant sinner...
All who are born of God are repentant sinners. it is what saved them in the first place.. Thats what you do not get. You seem to think God saves an unrepentant sinner, and then has to take his salvation back because all of a sudden God realised he was not repentant in the first place.
David was not a practicing murderer or a practicing adulterer. He was a repentant murderer and a repentant adulterer.
Why? Because david was born of God and could not sin. (practice sin)
I have posted it many times, but for some reason, you refuse to acknowledge the many verses I quote.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
And as far as ever earning salvation, what part of...
If one keeps the law perfectly for 100 lifetimes of 100 years each, he cannot earn salvation, it is the gift of God.
Don't you understand? I have posted that who knows how many times.
You say it, then you say we can lose it because of disobedience. Which is plainly saying we have to work to not be disobedient, or God will take his salvation back (thus we have to work for it)
Thus are you have are words which lack foundation and credability.
it is like saying many times you can swim, and saying it over and over until your blue in the face. And getting mad when someone who knows you says you can't swim, then when it comes down to it, you really can't swim..
words are meaningless if they have no foundation based on truth!
How about reconciling these scriptures...
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? .
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Galatians 3:23-25
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 13:10 [SUP] [/SUP]Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
John 15:13 [SUP] [/SUP]Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
The Lord Jesus has fulfilled the Law to the uttermost. That doesn't mean that the Law is done away. The Law still serves its purpose. It is a tutor to bring us to Christ...
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yep, you are guilty, and so am I. Glad that grace allows forgiveness for breaking these Laws.
We will be guilty until the day we die.
Unless we have been washed by the blood of Christ by our faith, we will continue to be guilty, and suffer eternally as we deserve to be..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
And that is what I have said all along. The only way you seem to present your case is to change what I say to a justification by works statement. Here is where justification comes from...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Justified by His shed blood.
Reconciled by His death.
Saved by His life.
Now your twisting everything.
This is what I have been saying all along.. Now you are agreeing with me.. how can that be??
By the way, all those passages prove one thing.. Eternal life is eternal and can not be lost under any circumstance. if it can be lost. Those passages are misleading. and not the truth.. because if we can lose salvation. it is a salvation of works. not of grace, period!