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djness
Guest
Here is something you may understand. 4^300 is the chance we had to just randomly appear. 50/50 chance God exists.
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Here is something you may understand. 4^300 is the chance we had to just randomly appear. 50/50 chance God exists.
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MatthewMichael
Guest
a·the·ism /ˈāTHēˌizəm/
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[TD]Noun
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[TD]The theory or belief that God does not exist.
..The word "belief" is right there in the definition...
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[TD]Noun
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[TD]The theory or belief that God does not exist.
..The word "belief" is right there in the definition...
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I cant tell u how wrong that is...
You can't say its possible that god exists because we don't know of it to be an option of possibility.
You need to learn some data before you come up with numbers like that
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MatthewMichael
Guest
THE most studied book in all of human history tells us that he does exist. It has been examined by Christians and non-Christians alike and is known to be historically correct, whether you choose to believe it or not.
Atheism may not be a religion but its a belief nonetheless. A lack of belief or a belief in "nothing" is still a belief, and while many atheists love to claim that Christians are "forcing" our religion down their throats. Why is it that a Christian has no right to claim that an Atheist is cramming their lack of belief which is a belief all in itself down my throat....HMMM double standard? Intolerant tolerance perhaps?? I wonder....
Atheism is a belief like not collecting stamps is a hobby. You said it yourself atheism is a "lack of belief".
How is that a belief?
If I believe in nothing isnt that still a belief? To believe in nothing still means I believe in something.
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?
A student bravely replied yes, he did!"
"God created everything?" The professor asked.
"Yes, sir," the student replied.
The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil."
The student became quiet before such an answer.
The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"
"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.
The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody and every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have too little heat.
The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?"
The professor responded, "Of course it does".
The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"
Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. "These manifestations are nothing else but evil."
To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."
The professor sat down.
I would take this one on for size famous response. Do not know where it originated from, although some claim it was Albert Einstein, however that is not the case!
Ok im going to make a book on the flying spaghetti monster and if everyone agrees on it, it's true whether you want to believe it or not.
If really all you hav is historical evidence, then you have nothing
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MatthewMichael
Guest
I already said "belief" is IN the definition atheism. It doesn't get anymore clear than that.
Agnosticism is the most logical stance for a nonbeliever to take..defined as:
ag·nos·tic /agˈnästik/
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[TD]A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena;...[/TD]
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Agnosticism is the most logical stance for a nonbeliever to take..defined as:
ag·nos·tic /agˈnästik/
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[TD]Noun
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[TD]A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena;...[/TD]
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MatthewMichael
Guest
I was a bitter/angry teen once. I've met a lot of bitter/angry/argumentative teens. Now I've met one more. No one would read your book.
You keep making assumptions, like "if all you have to rely on is historical evidence..." Did I say that. Nope. I made a valid point on the accuracy of the Bible as agreed upon by Christians and non-Christians (who are older and most likely a lot more educated than you) The Bible was written by multiple men over a great length of time and is one of only a few books ever written that claim to be the word of God, and the other books don't hold a candle to the Bible's accuracy.
PS. The flying Spaghetti (joke of an) argument is exactly what you believe. You believe that your life, mine and the universe is a fart in space time that came from nothing. Meaningful information has never been observed to come from nothing. ever.
Where do you suppose natural law came from? laws of physics? thermodynamics?
You keep making assumptions, like "if all you have to rely on is historical evidence..." Did I say that. Nope. I made a valid point on the accuracy of the Bible as agreed upon by Christians and non-Christians (who are older and most likely a lot more educated than you) The Bible was written by multiple men over a great length of time and is one of only a few books ever written that claim to be the word of God, and the other books don't hold a candle to the Bible's accuracy.
PS. The flying Spaghetti (joke of an) argument is exactly what you believe. You believe that your life, mine and the universe is a fart in space time that came from nothing. Meaningful information has never been observed to come from nothing. ever.
Where do you suppose natural law came from? laws of physics? thermodynamics?
Well its wrong. Atheism is the rejection of a belief in a god. This is typical of people saying "well we both believe in things so haha we're equally dumb". Which is wrong in very matter.
Let me ask you, in a court trial when the jury gives their vote, do they vote on innocent or guilty? They only focus on the guilty portion of it. Either they have been convinced that this man is guilty of the murder or he's not guilty. When they say "not guilty", it's saying that we are not convinced this man is guilty based on the presented evidence. It doesn't mean we believe he's innocent, just that we're not convinced of his guilt. That "not guilty" is atheism: we are not convinced of a god based on the presented evidence and until there is sufficient evidence, we will reject that it's guilty of existing.
I dont know how mich clearer we need to be, just citing a dictionary definition ain't gonna get you anywhere
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MatthewMichael
Guest
The definition is wrong, but the 17 year old boy is right?... L O L. I'm done here. You are all too wise. You ought to rewrite the definition, oh great one.
Lol thats funny, calling me bitter. I get a little irated when people don't have basic reasoning thats all.
Now getting to my point, atheism has nothing to do with the origins of the universe. I accept the big bang model because its proven with massive observational evidence. It is also been proven that something can come from nothing. Ill try to explain it simply.
Nothing by scientific definition is an empty vacuum devoid of matter and and antimatter. It doesn't violate any physical laws because when matter and anti matter come together, it produces absolute 0. That means that the universe came about with absolute 0 energy. Trippy huh?
Now i have shown it's possible, and it happens all the time, of something coming from nothing. Now what evidence do you have that a god exists? I don't care about who says that god exists, even the most brilliant mind, if they don't present the evidence their claim is as good as anyone elses. Your making an arguement from authority and again, you fall back on hving nothing
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MatthewMichael
Guest
Lol. There's not enough threads going to keep me out of here.
A.) You're right. I shouldn't have said the "bitter" part. That was a foolish assumption, and I apologize.
B.) You've proven nothing. We are aware of the experiment you spoke of. I said "meaningful" information.
C.) Proof of God is all around you and in you. If you cannot see it, you choose to turn your back on it. My "bitter" comment was, although wrong on my part, an attempt to point out that you seem to have a need to come here and argue with people who are older and probably more educated than you. For you to assume that the older men in this forum haven't studied this since before you were a twinkle in your mother's eye is absurd and insulting.
You are young. You have more testosterone in you body right now than you will ever have again (assuming you don't do steroids). It makes you (and men of your age in general til about mid 20's) very aggressive and "know-it-all" like. Just use your logic my friend. You are half the age of many men here - 1/3 the age even. Are you insinuating that these grown men are fools? and that you are some kind of wonderchild who just popped up with all these questions and answers that none of us have ever considered? Don't you think were 17 once? Don't you think we have questioned things as you are questioning things? and don't you realize that we've had much longer to think about the questions that you're asking?
So, back to your question: There are billions of bits (and probably even more) of CODE - meaningful information, in ONE strand of DNA. If you cannot find God's fingerprint in his creation, it's because you do not want to.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
A.) You're right. I shouldn't have said the "bitter" part. That was a foolish assumption, and I apologize.
B.) You've proven nothing. We are aware of the experiment you spoke of. I said "meaningful" information.
C.) Proof of God is all around you and in you. If you cannot see it, you choose to turn your back on it. My "bitter" comment was, although wrong on my part, an attempt to point out that you seem to have a need to come here and argue with people who are older and probably more educated than you. For you to assume that the older men in this forum haven't studied this since before you were a twinkle in your mother's eye is absurd and insulting.
You are young. You have more testosterone in you body right now than you will ever have again (assuming you don't do steroids). It makes you (and men of your age in general til about mid 20's) very aggressive and "know-it-all" like. Just use your logic my friend. You are half the age of many men here - 1/3 the age even. Are you insinuating that these grown men are fools? and that you are some kind of wonderchild who just popped up with all these questions and answers that none of us have ever considered? Don't you think were 17 once? Don't you think we have questioned things as you are questioning things? and don't you realize that we've had much longer to think about the questions that you're asking?
So, back to your question: There are billions of bits (and probably even more) of CODE - meaningful information, in ONE strand of DNA. If you cannot find God's fingerprint in his creation, it's because you do not want to.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
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Im sorry saying the proof of god is all around me is extremely vague. Is he just everything? Im sorry but in this case, age means nothing. If a 5 year old says 2 + 2 = 4 and the smartest known man on earth says it equals 5, he's wrong. So please, don't bring out the age here, it's not gonna look good.
I am not saying these older and more wise men are fools. If anything, i'm implying that they are being ignorant. And i know you're probably thinking im some dumb know it all 17 year old, but i look at evidence the same way any other rational person does. Age does not matter. I'm actually planning on advancing my education to this type of matter so i think im more then ok with challenging beliefs.
And sure there are a billion bits of code in one strand of DNA.....so what? Where's god in this? This is traced back to evolution so unless you can show a god did it, it's strictly naturalistic.
And why is my flying spaghetti monster any different then your bible? They're verses that believers and non-believers alike can agree on, so they have the same validity. Disprove the fsm
And again, when you bring up age, your admitting you have no better srguement to say. Not being rude, just telling it how i see it. So if you want to have a discussion, don't bring up age. Talk to me like you would anyone in this regard
I agree. Our Bible says to let no man despise your youth. It's not fair to choose something he had nothing to do with to fault him for.
Just because someone has the number 17 by their age on an internet forum doesn't actually mean the person is 17.
You should address the actually arguments instead of using strawmen fallacies.
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MatthewMichael
Guest
I'd didn't do any despising. I pointed out that he's acting like the other men here haven't had the exact same thoughts he has had, and that he's arguing with information that we've all heard before and don't believe. He believes he is right over other men much older than him who have studied this longer than him. That is a meaningful observation. This all boils down to belief on both sides.
Are you not wiser now than you were at half your age? And were you not wiser then than you were at half of that.
Also, you took that verse out of context. A non-believer preaching atheism is not who this verse was aimed at.
1 Timothy 4: 11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Command and teach these things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.
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MatthewMichael
Guest
He states: "i look at evidence the same way any other rational person does." And yet he insinuates the other men here aren't look at the evidence rationally.
It's a shame I have to point out this blaring fallacy. 50/50 chance God exists? Well, which god
are you referring to? You're failing to take into account the Muslim religion, the many Hindu gods,
Zeus, Apollo, Osiris, and I could go on forever.