Can atheists prove that atheism is based on facts and not fantasy?

[Mo0448]

Chances are, that particular scenario probably never happened.

Its not about whether or not that happened but its an interesting comparison and observation. What I don't understand is you're demanding all the answers by asking all the questions...why don't you provide some answers instead of making us have all the answers for you? I mean as a Biochemist having studied science and everything else about it I believe that everything points back to a creator and that creator is God! While you make claim to other gods, put into perspective, if there were really many gods in the world, would we not be constantly bombarded with deity wars? Just a thought.

i suggest you youtube Ravi Zacharias and listen to his talk (he is an Apologist) [video=youtube;75Q37aMKidg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Q37aMKidg[/video]

let me know what you think


I suggest others that are curious to watch it as well he is a great speaker

 

[Shiloah]

View attachment 51415

It's hard to prove something as stupid as atheism. How rediculous to think nothing created everything and then believe in it.

I think this thread is a bit silly. No one can prove anything. Not human beings anyway. We just haven't got enough intelligence, resources, or information. Regardless, whatever is true remains true. All you're asking is if atheism can prove there isn't a God. That in itself takes defining. Do you mean, a creator?

All anyone can do is provide evidence for or against the belief in a divine creator. That's it and that's all, so a thread such as this can do nothing but present a no-win scenario.

 

[Shiloah]

I also don't think creating a thread where you're just throwing insults at atheists, calling them stupid, wins any hearts to Christ.

 

[MatthewMichael]

I think this thread is a bit silly. No one can prove anything. Not human beings anyway. We just haven't got enough intelligence, resources, or information. Regardless, whatever is true remains true. All you're asking is if atheism can prove there isn't a God. That in itself takes defining. Do you mean, a creator?

All anyone can do is provide evidence for or against the belief in a divine creator. That's it and that's all, so a thread such as this can do nothing but present a no-win scenario.

Thank you. Well put, and I agree. I wish you had posted this before I said anything

 

[danschance]

I assume you're all atheists in regards to Zeus, Thor, Baal, and the thousands
of other gods throughout history. Some people just go one more god further.

Let's all talk about things no one believes to avoid the obvious.

 

[Mo0448]

I'll speak for myself and say I have not called anyone stupid in any way...in fact I am trying to convince him otherwise by providing videos and information...now whether he chooses to look read and acknowledge anything that's on him and anyone else. Feel free to pm me about it there's many things to watch and read on the matter otherwise I think this will be my last post on this thread with all due respect

God Bless

 

[danschance]

I also don't think creating a thread where you're just throwing insults at atheists, calling them stupid, wins any hearts to Christ.

Does not the bible call atheists fools? In all seriousness, doesn't that make atheism pure stupidity?

I was giving atheists a chance to explain what they believe and instead they have discussed everything else. I think that proves the weakness in their arguments.

Professing to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1:22
The fool has said in his heart, there is no deity Psalms 14:1

Honestly, I have taken a liking to "Logical". He has at the very minimum posted a few things which although a bit misguided, he has at least given several attempts. He seems like a nice guy and seems to be well meaning. My only complaint is that he has not attempted to state what his beliefs are.

I don't know why he has tried several times to shift the focus to things not germain to my query and completely obfuscated on what he believes. I can't blame him as his beliefs are not an extrapolation from facts, figures or data. They are mere extensions of his spiritual condition. I am sure he is a smart person but atheism is always a dumb choice.

 

[danschance]

a·the·ism /ˈāTHēˌizəm/

[TABLE="class: vk_txt ts"]
[TR]
[TD]Noun
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]The theory or belief that God does not exist.



..The word "belief" is right there in the definition...
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Precisely my point. Atheism is based on one's own beliefs. That is why so many say that it is a form of a religion. I for one agree, but that could easily be the topic of another thread.

 

[danschance]

I think this thread is a bit silly. No one can prove anything. Not human beings anyway. We just haven't got enough intelligence, resources, or information. Regardless, whatever is true remains true. All you're asking is if atheism can prove there isn't a God. That in itself takes defining. Do you mean, a creator?

All anyone can do is provide evidence for or against the belief in a divine creator. That's it and that's all, so a thread such as this can do nothing but present a no-win scenario.

I think this thread is a bit silly. No one can prove anything. Not human beings anyway. We just haven't got enough intelligence, resources, or information.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. I don't know what you mean by "No one can prove anything. many things are indeed provable. Christianity is a faith based religion which I embrace and I do not believe there is proof out there that we can prove to that would cause others to conclude Christianity is true. We must approach God on faith.

All you're asking is if atheism can prove there isn't a God. That in itself takes defining. Do you mean, a creator?

No. I am not asking atheists to prove or disprove God or evolution. I am asking atheists to list reasons why they think atheism is true. Simple, right? I feel confident they have no facts or proof to support atheism. I am getting tired of Atheists who come to this site, day after day and demand Christians provide proof of God. Then they point to evolution as evidence that "proves Christianity is false.

Well if they can demand proof from us Christians, is not fair that I ask them for facts or proof as to their own beliefs? So far not a single atheist has done so. Instead "Logical has tried to reframe the discussion so he does not have to answer the simple things I have asked for. Yet he continues to remain silent on his beliefs.

I have used some frank and less than flattering terms in hopes they will rise up and answer my challenge. I was wrong. They so far have refused to state what they believe and on what do they base this belief.

 

[danschance]

Atheism is a belief like not collecting stamps is a hobby. You said it yourself atheism is a "lack of belief".
How is that a belief?

Oh Logical, you are not being honest. Atheism is defined as the belief that God does not exist. How can you argue with that?

Let me again give you another chance: How would you define atheism and what do you base that on?

I have asked this of you several times...still no answer.

 

[MatthewMichael]

I said it earlier, but I think this answers all the atheism stuff perfectly: (the bold is my emphasis only)

Romans 1: 18:20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[SUP][a][/SUP] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Atheists know there is a God. They choose to verbalize disbelief for their own reasons. I think Shiloah is just basically agreeing with that idea. That there is no use arguing with someone who chooses to believe something else.

 

[danschance]

I said it earlier, but I think this answers all the atheism stuff perfectly: (the bold is my emphasis only)

Romans 1: 18:20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[SUP][a][/SUP] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Atheists know there is a God. They choose to verbalize disbelief for their own reasons. I think Shiloah is just basically agreeing with that idea. That there is no use arguing with someone who chooses to believe something else.

Interesting verses. So far there have not been any arguments. Not one atheist has posted what it is that they believe and why. They seem fixated on "proving" christianity is false at the same time they refuse to discuss their own beliefs.

 

[kenisyes]

I assume you're all atheists in regards to Zeus, Thor, Baal, and the thousands
of other gods throughout history. Some people just go one more god further.

God created people who were mistakenly worshipped by others. If you trace the literature, most people felt God Himself was too remote to reach, so they interposed a group of creating angels or demigods. Then this group was confused with the children of the nephilim. Those children actually lived, and became the prototypes for these "gods". So we believe these creatures existed, just like we believe in the real God who created the fallen angels who created them. We just do not consider them gods.

 

[kenisyes]

Christianity is not a religion. It is 22,000 of them. We call the ones people do in groups, denominations. A religion is what a person does day-by-day to respond to God. Each denomination does different things. I have my own religion, too. I respond to Jesus according to the gifts God gave me, and it's just a little different from anyone else. And I can join anyone of the 22,000 for a period of time, because I respond to the same Jesus they do.

Christianity is the choice to follow Jesus. Obviously that is a choice that becomes possible only if you believe in God.

Atheism is a choice, also. An atheist says, "I have heard people speak of God, and I think those people are mistaken." He has given this some thought. An agnostic, by comparison, says "I do not know if there is a God or not."

Obviously, neither atheists nor agnostics can have religion in the sense I have defined it, since there is no God for them to respond to. Atheists but not agnostics can have a response to the lack of God if they choose. For example, an atheist might go on TV and give lectures against Christian beliefs. He might work as a cult deprogrammer. It is inconsistent for an agnostic to do such things, because in his own mind, he could be wrong; he has not yet reached a conclusion, as the atheist has.

Danschance has asked two questions: 1. Explain the reasoning that has led to your conclusion that God does not exist. 2. Explain what if anything you do to assertively bring your conclusion that God does not exist to the attention of others, and why you do it.

These are good questions, and I would love to see them addressed.

 

[JimJimmers]

It's a shame I have to point out this blaring fallacy. 50/50 chance God exists? Well, which god
are you referring to? You're failing to take into account the Muslim religion, the many Hindu gods,
Zeus, Apollo, Osiris, and I could go on forever.

That's not entirely accurate, as the existence of Zeus would still negate atheism. It would also negate Christianity, but that doesn't make the statement a fallacy.

 

[Tethered]

Danschance has asked two questions: 1. Explain the reasoning that has led to your conclusion that God does not exist. 2. Explain what if anything you do to assertively bring your conclusion that God does not exist to the attention of others, and why you do it.

1: [insert personal experience] -> a)Supernatural and spiritual claims, fail or avoid skeptical inquiry or testing. (Premises)
-> This reduces my options to non-theistic positions 'atheism (gnostic / agnostic), agnosticism, deism'.
-> Many common theologies have claims I can test. Of the theologies I know of, some claims can be supported but only to the extent of needing natural explanation, other claims can be considered against scientific understanding or contradictory. [I justify disbelief in those theological Gods aka atheism... however just because something is against scientific understanding does not rule out it may be true... hence agnostic atheism]
-> addendum: The deistic aspect of God is not contradictory or against scientific understanding. However as a rule of not appealing to ignorance, agnosticism becomes default; secondly, with my understanding of quantum physics and occams razor, I consider a higher being unlikely to have created the universe in contrast to an unconscious reason for the existence of the universe.

2. A shrewd question. Evidently a presence in a Christian forum leads to more chances of responding to questions. Why? I think a human desire to be acknowledged, the opportunity to do so is convenient in lieu of my common chatroom loitering.

 

[JimJimmers]

I'd didn't do any despising. I pointed out that he's acting like the other men here haven't had the exact same thoughts he has had, and that he's arguing with information that we've all heard before and don't believe. He believes he is right over other men much older than him who have studied this longer than him. That is a meaningful observation. This all boils down to belief on both sides.

I have wondered that before, I'll pose the question to the non-theists on the boards. Guys, (and gals, if there are any) I'm sure you've noticed that your peer group is mainly males between the ages of 16 and 30. Why do you think that is? Any thoughts on the matter?

Are you not wiser now than you were at half your age? And were you not wiser then than you were at half of that.

I don't see how I could possibly objectively determine that.

Also, you took that verse out of context. A non-believer preaching atheism is not who this verse was aimed at.

Naturally, Paul wasn't writing to an atheist, but I still find it unfair. If a 60-year-old came on here and was an atheist, would you bow to his age?

 

[Logical]

Oh Logical, you are not being honest. Atheism is defined as the belief that God does not exist. How can you argue with that?

Let me again give you another chance: How would you define atheism and what do you base that on?

I have asked this of you several times...still no answer.

I guess the best way to sum up how I feel is that I don't have "beliefs." I try to determine
what it most likely true and go from there. A probability scale, so to speak. I don't say
"There is no God." But I do think there is no convincing evidence for God. Most people
just assume God exists but when I actually investigate the matter it makes more sense
to me that there probably is no God or at least there's no God who interferes in human
lives. That's just my own interpretation of reality. But yes, there could be a God. I will never
count that out.

 

[JimJimmers]

Logical: Just out of curiosity, is there a name for someone who believes God does not exist? I know there are several people who state, flat out, "there is no God." I consider this illogical, as they are practically calling themselves omniscient, but nevertheless I have heard it before. What is the name for such a person?

 

[Logical]

Logical: Just out of curiosity, is there a name for someone who believes God does not exist? I know there are several people who state, flat out, "there is no God." I consider this illogical, as they are practically calling themselves omniscient, but nevertheless I have heard it before. What is the name for such a person?

By those terms that would be a gnostic atheist or hard atheist. Most atheists that
I've met and others I've seen on youtube are agnostic atheists or soft atheists.