Cessationism or Continuationism: What Does Scripture Say?

[GreenNnice]

you could have just walked by the Krishna's not prayed at all walked by turned
around and they were gone..because they had places to go....why would God have made them leave?
didnt they obviously go somewhere else? if they went somewhere else would
they be less evil there? Does God make evil go away if we pray for it?
Why? Go where? There is a thing called superspiritual where we "think"
we are movers and shakers. And interpret everyday things as if we played
a superspiritual part. I know this personally.

A believer prays for a friend for three months and his friend is healed from a disease.
His neighbors wife is a pagan so is he and he doesnt pray and his wife is healed from a disease.
The believer says his prayer caused the healing. What caused the pagans healing?

Just to answer your last question with a question, squirrelfriendabiding?

If God heals the pagan what is that to you ? God convicts those in unbelief of Christ, why can't He 'convict' them through a healing?

Who can know the mind of God, so says 1 Cor. , but we have 'the mind of Christ,' and, that's to let us know that we have seen The Way of Jesus Christ on Earth, so, we have, too, those who choose Him, been imputed His righteousness . But NONE of us know the mind of God. Scripture is clear, think it's the end of chapter two in 1 Cor. , to be specific.



And, far as evil goes, again, why do some die? Why do some good people die? Why do bad people die? Why is there evil in the world; who created it? God .He KNOWS who's 'going down,' and who is getting raised up , knew so before they were born, even. He just knows, yes, we can make choices, but God is omniscient. He KNOWS. Therefore, He knows evil. He created EVERYTHING--evil, too, and, it's USED to bring those who don't Love Him DOWN, as Scripture says, there are ends for all, even to those who are wicked in their due time.

His purposes are known to those who know Him, His sheep hear His voice, they do not do evil, even though they can testify to it being a true reality in the world.

 

[Abiding]

Just to answer your last question with a question, squirrelfriendabiding?

If God heals the pagan what is that to you ? God convicts those in unbelief of Christ, why can't He 'convict' them through a healing?

Who can know the mind of God, so says 1 Cor. , but we have 'the mind of Christ,' and, that's to let us know that we have seen The Way of Jesus Christ on Earth, so, we have, too, those who choose Him, been imputed His righteousness . But NONE of us know the mind of God. Scripture is clear, think it's the end of chapter two in 1 Cor. , to be specific.



And, far as evil goes, again, why do some die? Why do some good people die? Why do bad people die? Why is there evil in the world; who created it? God .He KNOWS who's 'going down,' and who is getting raised up , knew so before they were born, even. He just knows, yes, we can make choices, but God is omniscient. He KNOWS. Therefore, He knows evil. He created EVERYTHING--evil, too, and, it's USED to bring those who don't Love Him DOWN, as Scripture says, there are ends for all, even to those who are wicked in their due time.

His purposes are known to those who know Him, His sheep hear His voice, they do not do evil, even though they can testify to it being a true reality in the world.

just wondering why you like to use my posts to show you missed
the point and to make irrelevant comments...cant you just post a comment?

 

[GreenNnice]

It's perfectly understandable, just read it through, and, then, ask Him for understanding, otherwise , it will sound like wah-wah-wah-wah-wah-wah. You do understand Charlie Brown's teacher, I hope, squirrelhouse

 

[Abiding]

It's perfectly understandable, just read it through, and, then, ask Him for understanding, otherwise , it will sound like wah-wah-wah-wah-wah-wah. You do understand Charlie Brown's teacher, I hope, squirrelhouse

If God has to reveal what your talking about ...no thanks
thats your job.

 

[GreenNnice]

If God has to reveal what your talking about ...no thanks
thats your job.

He will , give Him time

 

[RickyZ]

just wondering why you like to use my posts to show you missed
the point and to make irrelevant comments...cant you just post a comment?

Sorry Ricky,

Not enough info to say one way or the other. You never saw what happened to them,you don't give the time during the day in which this happened,no description of the boardwalk. IE are there shops along the boardwalk? The time that one thinks has passed is often very subjective,most people have no idea how much time has actually passed. From your description it may be from the Lord and again it may not be. You also have no idea what you actually prayed for so was it actually an answer to a pray and do you really know?

you could have just walked by the Krishna's not prayed at all walked by turned
around and they were gone..because they had places to go....why would God have made them leave?
didnt they obviously go somewhere else? if they went somewhere else would
they be less evil there? Does God make evil go away if we pray for it?
Why? Go where? There is a thing called superspiritual where we "think"
we are movers and shakers. And interpret everyday things as if we played
a superspiritual part. I know this personally.

A believer prays for a friend for three months and his friend is healed from a disease.
His neighbors wife is a pagan so is he and he doesnt pray and his wife is healed from a disease.
The believer says his prayer caused the healing. What caused the pagans healing?

See now, this is where rtfs comes into play in not missing the points. Clear your mind of the pre-programmed negativity and actually understand and consider what has been said instead of taking the typical knee-jerk reaction to it, and you might actually learn something.

Missed point no. 1: This is where the Krishnas RECRUIT. It is unlikely that as they were all gathering for that purpose they suddenly decided to go shopping instead.

Missed point no. 2: No I didn't time our walk-on, but we only went half a block. How long does it take you to walk half a block? I doubt it's a full five minutes. And again, Krishna recruiting masses rarely last only 5 minutes. They can go for hours. Nearly 2 dozen people gathered for a purpose totally dissapear in a matter of minutes? That's not normal I woud say.

Missed point no. 3: Yes I do know what I was praying, as stated I was praying to silence, bind and disperse them. Just like Jesus said we would.

Missed point no 4: I prayed in the Spirit of God to disband a gathering of evil, and the gathering of evil disbanded. Be VERY careful what you ascribe that to, or take away from.

Missed point no. 5: My gawd, I shake my head in sadness and disbelief at how you've hardened your hearts to the Holy Spirit acting in concert with a faithful servant to achieve the goal of thwarting evil and advancing a win for the kingdom of God! How empty your spiritual experience is!

Fill your lamps with oil and be a good steward of the gifts of God! Stop burying your talents in the ground or you will for sure share in that unfaithful servant's punishment!

 

[RickyZ]

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
and there we have it!

haha. sorry.
it's just so ridiculous.

I cry for you zone. It kills me to see someone so full in the head yet empty in the heart.

 

[SarahM777]

See now, this is where rtfs comes into play in not missing the points. Clear your mind of the pre-programmed negativity and actually understand and consider what has been said instead of taking the typical knee-jerk reaction to it, and you might actually learn something.

Missed point no. 1: This is where the Krishnas RECRUIT. It is unlikely that as they were all gathering for that purpose they suddenly decided to go shopping instead.

Missed point no. 2: No I didn't time our walk-on, but we only went half a block. How long does it take you to walk half a block? I doubt it's a full five minutes. And again, Krishna recruiting masses rarely last only 5 minutes. They can go for hours. Nearly 2 dozen people gathered for a purpose totally dissapear in a matter of minutes? That's not normal I woud say.

Missed point no. 3: Yes I do know what I was praying, as stated I was praying to silence, bind and disperse them. Just like Jesus said we would.

Missed point no 4: I prayed in the Spirit of God to disband a gathering of evil, and the gathering of evil disbanded. Be VERY careful what you ascribe that to, or take away from.

Missed point no. 5: My gawd, I shake my head in sadness and disbelief at how you've hardened your hearts to the Holy Spirit acting in concert with a faithful servant to achieve the goal of thwarting evil and advancing a win for the kingdom of God! How empty your spiritual experience is!

Fill your lamps with oil and be a good steward of the gifts of God! Stop burying your talents in the ground or you will for sure share in that unfaithful servant's punishment!

Ricky,

Go back and read what I said,

1. I said there is not enough to say one way or the other that it was or was not.

2. People can disappear in less then 30 seconds depending on the area.

3. Do you have any idea if they went to get something to eat and drink? I didn't say shopping,you did.

4. What time of the day was it? Was it at lunch time,dinner time,do you know if they were already leaving because they had already been there for some?

5. Our task is to preach the gospel,where in there did you ever do that? The will of the Father is that all men would believe on Jesus.

6. I never said it was NOT from God but there is not enough to say for sure that it WAS.

7. Before you sit there and say that my "spiritual experience" is empty please be aware that I have seen God do great things through pray and fasting,just as the Bible says He will. I just have a problem with people saying that it still happens through the sign gifts. Can any show where outside of tongues where you still have people being healed in an instant in the name of Jesus after being lame,blind or any of those type of things,people being raised from the dead,etc?
Paul is very clear that the gift of tongues is the LEAST of the gifts,yet the rest were also part of it and yet no one can point to and verify that those things still happen.

For 49 years I had a living breathing answer,to prayers and the power God working through pray and fasting just as God said would happen. My oldest sister was a drop ether baby,my mom worked as an emergency room nurse during the 50's and early 60's,she was born with multiple severe birth defects,three times in her life she was declared clinically dead before the age of 10. She was born with a half a brain,Arnold Chari defect,which affects the head and face,a spina bifida and a hole in her heart. The doctors wanted my folks to put her into a place like the Lutheran home Bethesda,which is a place for people with these type of issues. They never thought she would walk or talk. Not one of the doctors can explain her life. They never thought she would live past the age of 2. She not only learned to walk and talk,she graduated from college and became a PT. (Try getting through anatomy class and see how easy it is)

I have seen people saved out of their addictions and sins and be saved. I have so many other things in my life that it can ONLY be by the hand of God. I walked away from a roll over in which the car was totaled,and I was not wearing my seat belt. For my foolishness for not doing so I did get a lump on my head. I have seen the Lord heal me of infections in less then 24 hours,and I could not afford to see the doctor. I have seen God work in the middle of Bourbon street during Mardi Gras. But not once in there can I ever say that it was because of the "sign gifts". It was ALWAYS in prayer,supplications, thanksgiving and fasting,just as the Lord said He would do it.

 

[zone]

Missed point no. 3: Yes I do know what I was praying, as stated I was praying to silence, bind and disperse them. Just like Jesus said we would.

Missed point no 4: I prayed in the Spirit of God to disband a gathering of evil, and the gathering of evil disbanded. Be VERY careful what you ascribe that to, or take away from.

I cry for you zone. It kills me to see someone so full in the head yet empty in the heart.

ricky, you said you were praying (i assume silently, in your mind) for something specific to happen.
you also, i assume are making the claim that praying in the Spirit means in tongues - it does not.

your prayer to disband the people may or may not have been answered by God - you can assume it was, and make that your testimony. but you don't know for certain either. if it was God answering your prayer with understanding, it would be because of the actual prayer (silent), and the glossolalia had zero to do with it.

what is your story a testimony to or of? - that (a) God answers prayer OR (b) tongues (known human languages) CONTINUED from Pentecost to today? it can't be (b) since you were not suddenly speaking to them in the languages in which they were born, and as Sarah said....proclaiming the Wonderful Works of God.

even as a testimony to answered (intelligible) prayer, it's still subjective and you don't know.

and please, as you gave a warning, heed one yourself:
one of us is 100% completely wrong on this matter.
and it's extremely serious.

 

[Abiding]

See now, this is where rtfs comes into play in not missing the points. Clear your mind of the pre-programmed negativity and actually understand and consider what has been said instead of taking the typical knee-jerk reaction to it, and you might actually learn something.

Missed point no. 1: This is where the Krishnas RECRUIT. It is unlikely that as they were all gathering for that purpose they suddenly decided to go shopping instead.

Missed point no. 2: No I didn't time our walk-on, but we only went half a block. How long does it take you to walk half a block? I doubt it's a full five minutes. And again, Krishna recruiting masses rarely last only 5 minutes. They can go for hours. Nearly 2 dozen people gathered for a purpose totally dissapear in a matter of minutes? That's not normal I woud say.

Missed point no. 3: Yes I do know what I was praying, as stated I was praying to silence, bind and disperse them. Just like Jesus said we would.

Missed point no 4: I prayed in the Spirit of God to disband a gathering of evil, and the gathering of evil disbanded. Be VERY careful what you ascribe that to, or take away from.

Missed point no. 5: My gawd, I shake my head in sadness and disbelief at how you've hardened your hearts to the Holy Spirit acting in concert with a faithful servant to achieve the goal of thwarting evil and advancing a win for the kingdom of God! How empty your spiritual experience is!

Fill your lamps with oil and be a good steward of the gifts of God! Stop burying your talents in the ground or you will for sure share in that unfaithful servant's punishment!

Nope, I have no unbelief in that the Holyspirit works through people.
I have doubts in people working the HolySpirit

 

[enoch1nine]

Miraculous works. Except through isolated exceptional servants, He's saves them up for grand finales. It's all through the old testament.

Joel 2

It's about an army of healers that come to steal modern false prophecies, and the jealousy and heartbreak of those who waited on those false prophecies of bloodshed.

Same thing happened to the pharisees. Same thing being preached today.

Prophecy repeats itself, thunder has an echo.

"Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for Salvation will do great things."

 

[zone]

Joel 2

It's about an army of healers that come to steal modern false prophecies, and the jealousy and heartbreak of those who waited on those false prophecies of bloodshed.

pardon?
explain please.

 

[GreenNnice]

ricky, you said you were praying (i assume silently, in your mind) for something specific to happen.
you also, i assume are making the claim that praying in the Spirit means in tongues - it does not.

your prayer to disband the people may or may not have been answered by God - you can assume it was, and make that your testimony. but you don't know for certain either. if it was God answering your prayer with understanding, it would be because of the actual prayer (silent), and the glossolalia had zero to do with it.

what is your story a testimony to or of? - that (a) God answers prayer OR (b) tongues (known human languages) CONTINUED from Pentecost to today? it can't be (b) since you were not suddenly speaking to them in the languages in which they were born, and as Sarah said....proclaiming the Wonderful Works of God.

even as a testimony to answered (intelligible) prayer, it's still subjective and you don't know.

and please, as you gave a warning, heed one yourself:
one of us is 100% completely wrong on this matter.
and it's extremely serious.

God was in control of the banding or disbanding, the only real subject of debate is HOW was God in control. I think, we can all agree with that, can't we If not , and, you THINK, Satan was in control of Job, go read the book and you will "think again"

 

[enoch1nine]

pardon?
explain please.

Before Jesus came, the religious leaders of the day expected a messiah who would come and rally the people into a jihad.
That's why the pharisees wouldn't accept Jesus. They wanted the terminator or rambo.
Instead they got a humble healer that eventually allowed them to kill Him to make a point.
Christianity and Islam today both likewise await a return of God that includes all kinds of doom and gloom, nukes, religious world wars, etc.

Some points on the passage referenced:
verse 1 - blow the trumpet in Zion, we are reading about the final showdown, the "tribulation", even instructed to blow the trumpet. Therefore, "Toot"
verse 2 - the army will be a great darkness. darkness means people can't understand what's around them. Nothing to do with being "evil"
verse 3 - the army has the goal of restoring paradise, and leaves people in the wilderness, being tested on their beliefs
verse 4-5 - they are unstoppable
verse 6 - "why can't *I* do that?! I don't understand! I've gone to church all my life!
verse 10 - the army is the light of the world
verse 13 - God executes brotherly love, not hatred
verse 14 - what does it really take to get peoples attention?
verse 16 - The power of Jesus manifested in His bride
verse 17 - Servants cry out for the salvation of the world, not for armageddon
verse 19 - grain, wine and oil. Finished words, overwhelming happiness, genuine relationships with God
verse 20 - doom and gloom prophecy smells bad and has ruined Jesus' reputation. It's going down.
verse 23 - preparation, the former rain that a servant has experienced and power to help mankind, the latter rain, what servants wait for
verse 25 - the army eats up the weak modern interpretation of what God will do, it is replaced with the truth
verse 31 - the current state of affairs
verse 32 - deliverance comes from Jesus, through the hands of the remnant.

Jesus prepares His people to do His works, not to fly away from man's version of armageddon.
He comes like a thief, to steal away misunderstandings, not bodies. In a cloud, something that can look like anything the imagination desires, but it's really just life giving water.

The world is looking for the wrong kind of return of Christ. The name Jesus Christ means you believe you can be anointed with what Jesus was anointed with, love made power. It's not a simple last name or title.

God says His people won't fear the last days. But most every Christian today is scared to death of a microchip, because deep down inside, they worry about being "left behind"

A reader can believe that passage is about eclipses, airplanes that sound like chariots, a northern russian army, etc.
Or a reader can "rend your heart, and not your garments"

 

[zone]

Before Jesus came, the religious leaders of the day expected a messiah who would come and rally the people into a jihad.
That's why the pharisees wouldn't accept Jesus. They wanted the terminator or rambo.
Instead they got a humble healer that eventually allowed them to kill Him to make a point.
Christianity and Islam today both likewise await a return of God that includes all kinds of doom and gloom, nukes, religious world wars, etc.

Some points on the passage referenced:
verse 1 - blow the trumpet in Zion, we are reading about the final showdown, the "tribulation", even instructed to blow the trumpet. Therefore, "Toot"
verse 2 - the army will be a great darkness. darkness means people can't understand what's around them. Nothing to do with being "evil"
verse 3 - the army has the goal of restoring paradise, and leaves people in the wilderness, being tested on their beliefs
verse 4-5 - they are unstoppable
verse 6 - "why can't *I* do that?! I don't understand! I've gone to church all my life!
verse 10 - the army is the light of the world
verse 13 - God executes brotherly love, not hatred
verse 14 - what does it really take to get peoples attention?
verse 16 - The power of Jesus manifested in His bride
verse 17 - Servants cry out for the salvation of the world, not for armageddon
verse 19 - grain, wine and oil. Finished words, overwhelming happiness, genuine relationships with God
verse 20 - doom and gloom prophecy smells bad and has ruined Jesus' reputation. It's going down.
verse 23 - preparation, the former rain that a servant has experienced and power to help mankind, the latter rain, what servants wait for
verse 25 - the army eats up the weak modern interpretation of what God will do, it is replaced with the truth
verse 31 - the current state of affairs
verse 32 - deliverance comes from Jesus, through the hands of the remnant.

Jesus prepares His people to do His works, not to fly away from man's version of armageddon.
He comes like a thief, to steal away misunderstandings, not bodies. In a cloud, something that can look like anything the imagination desires, but it's really just life giving water.

The world is looking for the wrong kind of return of Christ. The name Jesus Christ means you believe you can be anointed with what Jesus was anointed with, love made power. It's not a simple last name or title.

God says His people won't fear the last days. But most every Christian today is scared to death of a microchip, because deep down inside, they worry about being "left behind"

A reader can believe that passage is about eclipses, airplanes that sound like chariots, a northern russian army, etc.
Or a reader can "rend your heart, and not your garments"

Joel 2 was all fulfilled.
so dunno what you're talking about.

 

[RickyZ]

and please, as you gave a warning, heed one yourself:
one of us is 100% completely wrong on this matter.
and it's extremely serious.

Yes it is extremely serious, as it borders on blaspheme. But here's the picture you need to see:

When I stand before God, we will recount the numerous times I made myself available to the moving of His Spirit to bring miraculous things into this world.

When you stand before God, you'll recount how you believe that He sat on His @ss in 70 AD and didn't make yourself available to anything.

Study the unfaithful servant who hid the talents his master gave him.

 

[zone]

Yes it is extremely serious, as it borders on blaspheme. But here's the picture you need to see:

When I stand before God, we will recount the numerous times I made myself available to the moving of His Spirit to bring miraculous things into this world.

When you stand before God, you'll recount how you believe that He sat on His @ss in 70 AD and didn't make yourself available to anything.

Study the unfaithful servant who hid the talents his master gave him.

disgusting.

but typical reaction from Pentecostals when they know they're faking most of what they do.

and this?:

When I stand before God, we will recount the numerous times I made myself available to the moving of His Spirit to bring miraculous things into this world.

oh Lord, it's hard to be humble when you're so used of God in these mighty charis....eh.

good luck to ya.

if making myself available means i gibber in pagan blabberings and think i'm moving mountains, well, i'll be happy praising Jesus for all His Marvelous Works...and leaving MY Miraculous anything out of it.

this is exactly the heart of Pentecostalism - PRIDE AND SELF.

 

[RickyZ]

Ok another example to consider:

My friend Vicki is spiritually very strong and sensitive, even more than she knows. I knew from what she is involved with (heavily into Kabala) that the ‘darkies’ (I don’t like the word demons because there’s so much misinformation and mis-guided thought about them) were present around her. The first time I went to visit her they kept their distance while we chatted. But the moment I stepped out her door, two of them escorted me down the hall, down the stairs, into the street to my car, and watched me drive away. Plain as day, they don't even try to hide from me anymore because they know God's made me wise to them.

When I prayed for her (and I mostly pray in the Spirit), I often got this visual impression where it's night time, and I'm elevated like up in a tree to where I can see across the rooftops. Off a mile or so is her apartment building. Buildings usually give off some ambient light, but the light from her building was much brighter than the surroundings. Bright enough that it shines up upon the bottom of what at first looks to be some very dark tumultuous clouds. But looking closer, I can see it is instead a thick black swirling cloud of dark spirits. They're like a ginormous nasty swarm of mosquitoes, just looking for way in to draw blood, being held back solely by the light.

So one night I'm praying for her, and it’s concerted prayer; the swarm is thick and heavy and really agitated - pressing in to the point where they were smothering out the light. I got a sense of real urgency, that something really bad was happening. So in the Name of Jesus I travailed in prayer to bind and silence and swat at a few of them. But I was just one man against a swarm, definitely outnumbered. So I commanded angels to fight and occupy the enemy; and I saw angels start charging into the darkness. And then I command more of them to move in and get her out and to a place of safety. And I see more of them rush off into the scene. And so that is how I fight, in the Spirit of God claiming the Authority of Christ to bind and silence the darkies; and commanding the angelic host to go and do battle and occupy the them while others get in and get her out. And I'm watching this happen in my vision; I don't ever see her, but I see the heavenly forces rushing off to do battle against the swarm.

So the next day I'm talking to her, and before I can say anything she starts telling me about how she has always had trouble dealing with certain critical issues. They had been recently piling up and squeezing her to the point where she was starting to come apart and have a panic attack over how she was going to deal with them. She confessed that she’d dealt with it before by cutting herself (including her wrists) and that last night she was ready to do it again. Then she said, 'it was so weird, because all of a sudden this voice started telling me to get out, get out, leave, and something grabbed me by the arms and dragged me out of the apartment and down to my car.' She ended up on a bench at the beach where a Bible she found and people she encountered helped her find peace with the issue.

*

Ok, again, this came from God or it came from satan. Really, satan is going to use my supplications to Jehovah God and my covering in the Blood of Christ to stop his minions from wreaking havoc on someone? A house divided does what?


**Removed by admin.**

 

[RickyZ]

Sorry moderators. I understand if you have to infraction me for those.

 

[RickyZ]

this is exactly the heart of Pentecostalism - PRIDE AND SELF.

And that is the heart of hypocrasy... asking for evidence, then beating the messenger for having the audacity to provide it. I KNEW that was going to come up, altho I expected it from Abiding first. 'Hey, can anyone give me evidence of these things actually happening?" "why yes, here are some occurances that I have witnessed". "Well you pridefull boastful thing you."

I knew it.

LOLOLOLOL you say. I cry for you I say. For a mind so full of doctrine, you're heart's so empty of God.