gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

[Wall]

Hebrews 8:7[ A New Covenant ] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Hebrews 8:13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

So you think the covenant of Hebrews 8 {7-13} is already here.

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Although we are to try and walk as if Gods law was written in our heart, has the covenant of Hebrews 8 already arrived?

Verse 8- I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not a gentile mentioned anywhere. Are you from either house homwardbound? Which tribe?

Verse 11- Does EVERYONE know the Lord? Not even close. There will come a time.

Verse 13- Hebrews 8 was written AFTER the crucified Christ and the scripture clearly says that the old covenant (10 commandments) is WAXING OLD and GETTING READY to vanish. Aint vanished yet! Yes there are some books that claim the ten are "obsolete" {a completely different word}. In them same books youll find in Hebrews 4 the name of Jesus being change to Joshua for the same reason.

Verse 10- When God writes His commandments in our heart you can bet the ranch we will be keeping them. Yes, even His sabbath. When will God write His laws in our hearts? At the time He does this quote takes place.. " I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people". Its after the gathering of His people to the 1000yr period of rest.

EZEKIEL 36 [24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, AND WILL BRING YOU INTO YOUR OWN LAND. [25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28] And ye shall dwell in the land that i gave to your fathers; and YE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE YOUR GOD.

Yup, youre jumping the gun on this covenant. That is unless you believe the gathering has already happened. And "everyone" on earth knows the Lord. And the old covenant isn't really waxing old.

 

[Grandpa]

That's pretty sad theology Wall.

You have the Lord saving bulls and goats but not men.

The Lord didn't save us so that our flesh could glorify before Him.

The Lord saved us so that we would KNOW that HE is the Way, the only Way and we must follow Him. Otherwise He would have told us right there that He is part of the Way and the 10 commandments are the other part...

The 10 commandments are a description of the Spirit that the Lord has put inside us. It is a description of what the Spirit causes us to do when we walk in the spirit.

Romans 7:18-25
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Flesh doesn't follow the Law. Flesh is the enemy of God. Carnality...

No one is saying that the Law is not good. It is just too GOOD for our flesh, mind and wills. We have to have another Way that is not of us, or we are doomed.

Thankfully the Lord Jesus didn't come to save the poor bulls and goats... He came to save us.

 

[Wall]

So go ahead and somehow manage to hold Ten apples under the water at the same time and have your own righteousness, but remember what paul said about this our own righteousness in Phillipians 3

Philippians 3:4-9 (KJV)
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


Once again. Taking a scripture which is speaking about circumcision and claiming its talking of the 10 commandments. Well....nothing about 10 apples here. To what end!

 

[Wall]

The Lord saved us so that we would KNOW that HE is the Way, the only Way and we must follow Him. Otherwise He would have told us right there that He is part of the Way and the 10 commandments are the other part...

He does tell us...if you believe the scriptures

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Wall]

That's pretty sad theology Wall.

You have the Lord saving bulls and goats but not men.


Thankfully the Lord Jesus didn't come to save the poor bulls and goats... He came to save us.

So grampa
Are you bearing false witness above. Could you show me where I said the Lord came to "save" bulls and goats and not men. Are you lying? Can you show me where I said this?

I understand you. You think you can lie and bear false witness and God doesn't care because you believe your not under the 10 commandments. You think you can do as you please and not obey God. Now theres a pretty sad theology. Good luck with that.

Now if you were not lying please post my words "only" where I made the claim God was saving bulls and goats and not men. If you are lying just write in your own words the story you wish to spread.

 

[notuptome]

He does tell us...if you believe the scriptures

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

This passage is not speaking about the church but Israel. Israel under assault of satan during the tribulation period.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wall]

So notuptome
Your saying that the Jews have to keep the commandments? Even those Jews that have the testimony of Christ? Do you make the claim the gentiles need not keep the commandments? 2 separate gospels...one for the believer who is a Jew and another gospel for the gentile believer?

 

[Wall]

This passage is not speaking about the church but Israel. Israel under assault of satan during the tribulation period.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Why couldn't they be part of church? The scripture says they followed the testimony of Christ. Wouldnt that make them part of the church? Youre not one of those "rapturist"..are you?

 

[Wall]

Flesh doesn't follow the Law. Flesh is the enemy of God. Carnality...

2 John 1:7 (KJV)
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


Didn't Jesus follow the law? Perfectly. Ofcourse He did. Did He follow the spirit of the law and not only the letter? Perfectly. Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

 

[resurrection33]

We have peace and salvation through His blood. We move on from that vantage point.

There are consequences to our actions. The consequences when we sin are not pleasant.

Yes, Jesus saves us from our sins, but he expects us to repent of our sin and he disciplines us when we don't.

 

[resurrection33]

Not God's part
Matthew 11:30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
and we are to take the above on all God and none of us except to vessels as a water glass is a vessel for us to use as we see fit. God is the same for me and all that trust, God willingly submit and the yoke and burden is light and easy just as Christ said

There is work to be done:

For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Matt 7:14 RSV

 

[resurrection33]

by putting forth the effort to keep from temptation brings temptation forward and we do what we do not want to do. This is a good start in showing us our comlete inability to obey law being in the flesh that is weak, unredeemed flesh. so by trying to stop shows our need because we can't stop when we sow (think) about stopping flesh it
Galatians 6:8

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Take on God's yoke and burden it is light and easy. No fear in perfect love, God is perfect love, no more man works,

Believe, see, recieve

We must repent of our sin:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

 

[resurrection33]

Our part is to believe trusting God to do in us what no man could ever do which is perfectly obey the Law as christpointed out so well to all prior to his going to the cross, where he by his death made us clean, took away all sins from Father's point of view he could present us Holy before God, and then God raises us back to life as he already did his son at the resurrection, we are made new in God by Christ, all done for us back at the cross, all we need to do is step out of death and into the new life done for us as a free gift and thus walk in the Spirit of God
Galatians 5:16[ Walking in the Spirit ] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

You can quote the Bible until the cows come home, but either you are an obedient Christian, or you are a disobedient one.

 

[zone]

This passage is not speaking about the church but Israel. Israel under assault of satan during the tribulation period.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

uh...no it isn't.

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

this is about the slaughter of the innocents - and the persecution of the 1st century christians, and even beyond.
it encompasses faithful Israel; who became the Christian Church.

THE CHURCH IS ISRAEL.

 

[haz]

Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

Did the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" keep the 10 commandments perfectly?

Or did that thief obey God's will (John 6:40) that we believe in Jesus?

I'm curious whether you consider a believer to be righteous even though they do not perfectly obey the law?

 

[Wall]

Did the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" keep the 10 commandments perfectly?

Or did that thief obey God's will (John 6:40) that we believe in Jesus?

I'm curious whether you consider a believer to be righteous even though they do not perfectly obey the law?

ROMANS 10 [4] For CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that believeth.

None of us can keep the 10 commandments perfectly. That's why Christ is the end of the law for righteousness

 

[notuptome]

uh...no it isn't.

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

this is about the slaughter of the innocents - and the persecution of the 1st century christians, and even beyond.
it encompasses faithful Israel; who became the Christian Church.

THE CHURCH IS ISRAEL.

The church is not Israel. Never was and never will be. That's just plain crazy. We will disagree about this but Israel's restoration is not until after the seven years of great tribulation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[haz]

Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

What did Paul think of his own perfect obedience to the law?
Phil 3:6-9
touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

So if a believer does not perfectly obey the law/10 commandments, are the still righteous, according to the doctrine you follow?

 

[haz]

Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

None of us can keep the 10 commandments perfectly.

Can you explain your contradiction above?

 

[notuptome]

So notuptome
Your saying that the Jews have to keep the commandments? Even those Jews that have the testimony of Christ? Do you make the claim the gentiles need not keep the commandments? 2 separate gospels...one for the believer who is a Jew and another gospel for the gentile believer?

What would cause you to postulate such an idea? The Jews must be saved the same way as the Gentiles. In the OT they looked for their Messiah to come. In the NT they and we look back to the cross to see the Messiah. The covenants were given to the Jews as they were God's chosen people to bear the word of God to the Nations. No argument that they have done a miserable job of that because of their apostasy. Christ will return to this earth in His glory to save Israel. He will descend from heaven and enter Jerusalem. He came the first time to His brethren Israel and He will return for them at the conclusion of the tribulation. We need to examine to whom were the commandments given and why were they given? I do not say we should ignore them but they cannot make one righteous.

For the cause of Christ
Roger