What are " conspiracy theorists " ?

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DragonSlayer

Guest
#1
1. Some new eccentric fashion victims who like to wear a tin foil hat :eek:

2. Yeah, I know that guy/gal, he/she just escaped from " put name here " asylum a few days ago :eek:

3. Some groups of spoiled brat teenagers who need to " shut the hell up " :mad:

4. Other ( Explain )
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#2
1. Some new eccentric fashion victims who like to wear a tin foil hat :eek:

2. Yeah, I know that guy/gal, he/she just escaped from " put name here " asylum a few days ago :eek:

3. Some groups of spoiled brat teenagers who need to " shut the hell up " :mad:

4. Other ( Explain )
4 Other:

a name of derision applied to people who investigate current events and history without assuming the official version is accurate or truthful.

the desired effect is peer-pressure and group-think; shunning and shutting down of critical thinking and individualism.

it works on the many, but does not work on the few.
it has the opposite effect:)
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#3
well said zone....that type of labeling is used a lot in society...tons of stuff that isn't even remotely conspiracy related......It's just a psychological trick that plays off of our social tendencies
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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#4
it works on the many, but does not work on the few.
it has the opposite effect:)
It works just as hard on the few who dive in and expend much or all of their energies to prove something said true or false. In this case, I include these folks as "it works on the many".
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#5
a conspiracy theorist is a person who theorizes about conspiracies...

the first known usage of the term 'conspiracy theory' appears in a discussion of a death in a mental asylum in 1871...and later in 1909 to refer to a theory about the kansas-nebraska act...though these theories were downright mundane by today's standards of conspiracy theory which are a different animal entirely...

more recently conspiracy theorists have taken exception to the term 'conspiracy theory'...but their protests are no more valid than those of evolutionists who want the term 'theory of evolution' to be replaced by 'fact of evolution'

at the same time the opponents of conspiracy theory have begun to tire of the conspiracy theorists' whining about the 'derogatory' nature of the term...as well as their tendency to use equivocating arguments such as 'watergate was a real conspiracy therefore it is legitimate to theorize that there is a conspiracy to hide evidence of space aliens'

some people have taken to using the term 'conspiracism' to refer to the entire worldview of conspiracy theory...personally i have tried coming up with other terms that reveal the often unrecognized or unacknowledged postmodernist and deconstructionist basis of conspiracy theory...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#7
An example:

Acts 5

And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, 28Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. 29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
that is what we ought to do my friends.

So if men attempt to tell you something different about life or this world.. or change your mind on what is acceptable.

Always adhere to the Word of GOD.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#8
'critical thinking' about current events and history...maybe you would be interested to know where -that- comes from...

Critical theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
lol....huh?

i said critical thinking, rach.




Critical thinking is a way of deciding whether a claim is always true, sometimes true, partly true, or false

Etymology[edit]

One sense of the term critical means crucial; a second sense derives from κριτικός (kritikos), which means discerning judgment.[2]

Skills[edit]

The list of core critical thinking skills includes observation, interpretation, analysis, inference, evaluation, explanation, and meta-cognition. There is a reasonable level of consensus that an individual or group engaged in strong critical thinking gives due consideration to establish:

Evidence through observation
Context skills[clarification needed]
Relevant criteria for making the judgment well
Applicable methods or techniques for forming the judgment
Applicable theoretical constructs for understanding the problem and the question at hand

In addition to possessing strong critical-thinking skills, one must be disposed to engage problems and decisions using those skills. Critical thinking employs not only logic but broad intellectual criteria such as clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, significance, and fairness.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

etc.
it just means thinking for yourself.
using God-given reason and logic, and common sense.
and above all, trusting one's own observation (eyes and discernment) FIRST before believing anything.

i would make the obvious exception to The LORD and the Revelation of Christ as this is Divinely revealed.

i mean in this world of mice and men.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#9
It works just as hard on the few who dive in and expend much or all of their energies to prove something said true or false. In this case, I include these folks as "it works on the many".
but....what if this is where you met the LORD?
i was researching Freemasonry years ago (innocently i thought) due to having a family member who had been a member.
one thing led to another....and i discovered much.

what i have discovered is that there are many many lost people seeking answers (to what they don't yet know)....and are having a sort of awakening that evil is real. that there's something bigger than what they "see".

this has opened the door for many (not a few) many opportunities to evangelize.
and in a few cases i know of certain, eventually the LORD added those to the number of the redeemed.

people are coming to Christ through coming out of the conditioning they've been under.
we know satan has blinded the minds of those who are perishing.

some are waking up.
whether anyone believes or accepts this matters little to me.
i see results.
i see people coming to Christ.

Amen
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
#10
Regardless of anyone's view for, or against, any particular conspiracy (or anything else for that matter) the term "critical thinking" is commonly used to refer to the practice of adhering to rules of logic in debate or discussion, rather than falling victim to logical fallacies.

Since atheists generally won't listen to scripture, I often use "critical thinking" to engage them.
The atheist will always hold to many illogical premises, which can often be unraveled fairly easily.
If you do this politely, and gently, you have a basis to begin to witness.
Critical thinking, by this definition, is a good thing, and a very biblical thing... it simply means to think logically.

I am always shocked at how discussions here, of one thing or another, often dive headlong into absurdity as we start applying equivocation to even simple, common terms.

Have we all become so illogical in our culture that we can't discuss facts, and do it politely?

Once I saw an article where someone claimed that Billy Graham was a shape-shifting lizard alien.
Dealing with this is very very simple;
supply some solid evidence, or sit down and shut up.
Doesn't that make everything incredibly simple?

I don't care if you're a lizard or not, I don't care if the moon is really made of cheese, and I don't care if pigs can fly...
but supply evidence, or be quiet.
If however, there IS evidence for something, then we probably need to at least investigate it.
How simple is that?

For the record... the moon IS made of cheese.
: )
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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#11
but....what if this is where you met the LORD?
i was researching Freemasonry years ago (innocently i thought) due to having a family member who had been a member.
one thing led to another....and i discovered much.

what i have discovered is that there are many many lost people seeking answers (to what they don't yet know)....and are having a sort of awakening that evil is real. that there's something bigger than what they "see".

this has opened the door for many (not a few) many opportunities to evangelize.
and in a few cases i know of certain, eventually the LORD added those to the number of the redeemed.

people are coming to Christ through coming out of the conditioning they've been under.
we know satan has blinded the minds of those who are perishing.

some are waking up.
whether anyone believes or accepts this matters little to me.
i see results.
i see people coming to Christ.

Amen
Good point and well taken. But we also see many people coming to Christ by just hearing the Gospel, and that's biblical!
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#12
Have we all become so illogical in our culture that we can't discuss facts, and do it politely?
The vast majority of the human population does not think logically or argue/debate logically......we are primarily driven by emotion....not logic.....We tend to use the appearance of logic (Fallacy) to support our underlying emotional preferences. Very few people are more advanced than that when it comes to intelligence/wisdom.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#13
Good point and well taken. But we also see many people coming to Christ by just hearing the Gospel, and that's biblical!
absolutely Bookends.
but something happens (the Holy Spirit) stirs their fears/consciences/senses - we are supposed to FEAR (without Christ).
i have zero doubt God is opening eyes to the total depravity and evil this world lies in:

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

once people who have twigged to these grand schemes by bad guys (who are following the prince of the power of the air)....and they see how big the thing is...they get scared. or they say "i knew there was something going on"

though as a rule i don't discuss any feeble works i do - i walked a high level freemason out of his lodge and into a church.
it cost him everything.
it involved 3 months x3 weekly at AA first - to get him SOBER.
and because i had the goods on his society and he didn't - he crumpled in fear and disgrace.

some time with an online exit ministry, and he repented and is a powerful Christian now....who ministers specifically to masons:)

yes...it's tiresome at times. mostly because of the ridicule from other christians i'm afraid to say. but that's okay.
but worth it.
i LOVE seeing this happen.

i love it. ALL GLORY TO GOD.
His Wisdom is amazing.

my testimony of God's Working is true for jews i have been in dialogue with for years.
they're harder to get to....but we did get ONE:)

THANK YOU LORD
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#14
The vast majority of the human population does not think logically or argue/debate logically......we are primarily driven by emotion....not logic.....We tend to use the appearance of logic (Fallacy) to support our underlying emotional preferences. Very few people are more advanced than that when it comes to intelligence/wisdom.
well, since WW2 we have been PC'd to death.
codes of silence imposed.
we have to be 'nice' and tolerant at all times, of everything.
even if we know it's wrong.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#15
lol....huh?

i said critical thinking, rach.

it just means thinking for yourself.
using God-given reason and logic, and common sense.
and above all, trusting one's own observation (eyes and discernment) FIRST before believing anything.
that is exactly what the 'critical theorists' claim to be doing in the study of sociology...for example...

"Critical social theory is, in contrast, a form of self-reflective knowledge involving both understanding and theoretical explanation to reduce entrapment in systems of domination or dependence, obeying the emancipatory interest in expanding the scope of autonomy and reducing the scope of domination."

is this not exactly what conspiracy theorists claim they are doing? freeing people from propagandistic intellectual 'systems of domination' and getting them to 'expand the scope of autonomy' by thinking for themselves?

some criticial theorists have even admitted and complained that conspiracy theorists are using their methods...

it is also funny that the word 'discernment' is used so much by defenders of conspiracy theory...

"The two meanings of critical theory — from different intellectual traditions associated with the meaning of criticism and critique—derive ultimately from the Greek word kritikos meaning judgment or discernment, and in their present forms go back to the 18th century."

conspiracy theory is 'discernment' the frankfurt way...surprise!
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#16
this has opened the door for many (not a few) many opportunities to evangelize.
and in a few cases i know of certain, eventually the LORD added those to the number of the redeemed.
this has -also- opened the door for those who are more inclined towards intellectual consistency to go all the way down the 'zeitgeist' path and reject christianity as an ancient conspiracy instead of stopping where you did...

and we saw -those- people out in force at the 'occupy wall street' protests...

i don't see the results you see...i see people getting drawn into the occult...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#17
Once I saw an article where someone claimed that Billy Graham was a shape-shifting lizard alien.
Dealing with this is very very simple;
supply some solid evidence, or sit down and shut up.
Doesn't that make everything incredibly simple?
if only it were that easy...

the problem with conspiracy theory is that...as a pursuit based on postmodernist foundations...it involves extremely subjective selection and evaluation of evidence...

due to the very nature of conspiracy theory...the conspiracy theorists are free to accept whatever data they find in support of their conspiracy theory...usually fatally flawed data when examined objectively...and they are free to reject all of the rest of the data that would otherwise disprove their conspiracy theory...dismissing it as 'propaganda'...

conspiracy theorists don't regard this practice as the 'cherry picking' of data that it really is...instead they actually view it as a virtue...as 'discernment' and 'critical thinking'

in many cases the lack of evidence for a conspiracy is taken as evidence of a conspiracy to cover up the evidence!

to apply all of this to your 'billy graham is a shapeshifting lizard alien' example...consider the fact that nobody has ever seen billy graham's lizard form... now a rational person would take this fact to mean there is no evidence to support that theory...but the conspiracy theorist will just take this as proof of billy graham's incredible shapeshifting ability...

conspiracy theories are set up so that they cannot be proven wrong...at least not to the conspiracy theorist...and unfalsifiable hypotheses are basically irrational by definition...
 
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DragonSlayer

Guest
#18
if only it were that easy...

the problem with conspiracy theory is that...as a pursuit based on postmodernist foundations...it involves extremely subjective selection and evaluation of evidence...

due to the very nature of conspiracy theory...the conspiracy theorists are free to accept whatever data they find in support of their conspiracy theory...usually fatally flawed data when examined objectively...and they are free to reject all of the rest of the data that would otherwise disprove their conspiracy theory...dismissing it as 'propaganda'...

conspiracy theorists don't regard this practice as the 'cherry picking' of data that it really is...instead they actually view it as a virtue...as 'discernment' and 'critical thinking'

in many cases the lack of evidence for a conspiracy is taken as evidence of a conspiracy to cover up the evidence!

to apply all of this to your 'billy graham is a shapeshifting lizard alien' example...consider the fact that nobody has ever seen billy graham's lizard form... now a rational person would take this fact to mean there is no evidence to support that theory...but the conspiracy theorist will just take this as proof of billy graham's incredible shapeshifting ability...

conspiracy theories are set up so that they cannot be proven wrong...at least not to the conspiracy theorist...and unfalsifiable hypotheses are basically irrational by definition...
What are you talking about ? Even if you would've talked in French my native language I would've understood almost nothing of what you said !

This is simple really ! Facts are facts ! Evidence is evidence ! What's so complicated about that ?

Btw, did you buy the official version of 9-11 ? Just asking.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#19
What are you talking about ? Even if you would've talked in French my native language I would've understood almost nothing of what you said !

This is simple really ! Facts are facts ! Evidence is evidence ! What's so complicated about that ?

Btw, did you buy the official version of 9-11 ? Just asking.
if you look hard enough and you are gullible enough you can find 'evidence' to support just about anything...likewise if you rationalize enough and you are stubborn enough you can reject any contradictory evidence no matter how decisive it is...

the problem with conspiracy theorists is that their evaluation of the evidence is not based on any objective standard of quality but rather on what they want to see...who they want to implicate and in what crimes...
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#20
if you look hard enough and you are gullible enough you can find 'evidence' to support just about anything...likewise if you rationalize enough and you are stubborn enough you can reject any contradictory evidence no matter how decisive it is...

the problem with conspiracy theorists is that their evaluation of the evidence is not based on any objective standard of quality but rather on what they want to see...who they want to implicate and in what crimes...
rachel.
can we put aside everything for one moment.

please look at this photo:




an airliner struck the top of the building and it disintegrates like this at virtual free fall?
not one tower....but two?

just yes or no you believe it or doubt it or whatever:)

......

as for believing what we want to in spite of contradictory evidence or suspicious circumstances so we can blame who we want to....did 19 arab cave dwellers do all this?

.....

personally, i trust no one who looks at the photos and video of what happened to those buildings (and the round hole in the Pentegon) and denies something other than the official narrative is likely.

there's something very wrong with anyone, no matter how learned who can look at the images and still claim airliners did this.
nope. deniers at this point are highly suspect.
 
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