Cessationism or Continuationism: What Does Scripture Say?

[1still_waters]

The ceasing of scripture has little to do with this topic, nor does it make any sense because scripture isn't a spiritual gift. To me this seems like confusion. I think we have enough of that already.

Actually the gift of revelation for writing scripture is a spiritual gift.
It certainly isn't an unspiritual gift.

 

[SarahM777]

We tend to acknowledge a ceasing of spiritual gifts because people in history wrote about it. So they did, big deal. It seems fishy to me that people would believe those that wrote things in earlier centuries were true on the grounds that they said so, but won't believe living, breathing christians that say they've experienced it. Did anyone know if these historians traveled all over the known world to prove cessationism to themselves? Or did they just take the word of people in the religious hierarchy & write it? I hear that you want proof. That is justifiable. Who in the first 15 centuries was able to go everywhere enough to know the gifts ceased? Are we gonna make demands of today's church without making such demands from religious historians? Especially catholic ones that we never agreed with in the first place? I have come to understand the history I grew up with was tainted, to say the least. World history was hijacked to say whatever it's leaders wanted. Should we believe christian history is as pure as the driven snow? I don't think so.

Correct me if I am wrong but this is what it sounds like you are saying.

1. You do acknowledge that it is recorded that the spiritual gifts did cease.

2. In essence it sounds like you are saying that it could be for three different reasons

A. The gifts ceased because the purpose that God had for them was complete.

B. It could be a lack of faith.

C. It could be possible that they didn't cease but we really don't know for sure.

 

[GreenNnice]

green:

do you speak in tongues?

just yes or no for now please.

Oh, are we gonna have fun later then, ohzone, OH, CAN WE, CAN WE,

 

[NiceneCreed]

If I may, I would like to answer the question directed toward Galatians2-20. It seems he should not have made the statement, "Cessationism is nothing more than bad theology based on even worse Eschatology." While we do live in the end times, it is an incorrect view to believe tongues will continue in the new heaven and new earth; Scripture does not support this view. In fact, Scripture clearly states, ". . . where there are tongues, they will be stilled. .." (1 Corinthians 13:8, New International Version, 2011). However, I believe Galatians2-20 was trying to express spiritual gifts will remain present on earth until the"perfect" or "completeness" comes (1 Corinthians 13:10). There is a dispute as to what the term"perfect" represents in this particular passage. Cessationists of course hold the view the"perfect" represents the completion of the Canon (. . . coming intothe full knowledge of Christ). On the other hand, Continuationists take to the view the "perfect"represents (In most cases, anyway) the 'Second Coming' of Christ. The Canon is without a doubt the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. Yet I am uncertain if Christians have a "full knowledge of Christ." The scriptures are sufficient for us to come to know and believe in our Lord; yes, but there is much about God we do not understand.

While 1 Corinthians talks about spiritual gifts extensively, we should not look to spiritual gifts as signs of salvation. Indeed, Christ has already extended to us salvation through the gift of grace. Jesus Himself said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah" (Luke 11:29). However spiritual gifts are not present in unbelievers, but they are present in believers. If believers then have spiritual gifts, the spiritual gifts themselvesare not what have drawn the faith of the believers to Christ. The spiritual gifts are present in the believers because they already have faith in Christ. Therefore, spiritual gifts are nothing more than God working through believers by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I have concluded spiritual gifts will cease when the “perfect” comes. Whether or not the “perfect” refers to Christ’s ‘SecondComing’ is open to interpretation. Yet I do not believe the “perfect” refers to the closing of the canon. While we are privileged to have God’s complete Word, we are far from being in the "full knowledge of Christ" as long as we live in the world we do.

Grace and Peace!

 

[Stephen63]

Well your last post did even worst......had nothing to do with gifts.
Had to do with believing in the messiah and to with with Gods word.
Never met a cessationists that lacked that.

Are you saying if someone doesnt believe all the manifestations are
in operation today....they are unsaved? Is that what your saying?
If not i think you need verses that apply

I don't know what you're talking about on your first paragraph, & in the 2nd it sounds like you don't know what I'm talking about, either.

 

[Abiding]

I don't know what you're talking about on your first paragraph, & in the 2nd it sounds like you don't know what I'm talking about, either.

whats new?

 

[Stephen63]

Actually the gift of revelation for writing scripture is a spiritual gift.
It certainly isn't an unspiritual gift.

What gift would you list it under?

 

[SarahM777]

What gift would you list it under?

The gift of knowledge.

 

[Stephen63]

Correct me if I am wrong but this is what it sounds like you are saying.

1. You do acknowledge that it is recorded that the spiritual gifts did cease.

2. In essence it sounds like you are saying that it could be for three different reasons

A. The gifts ceased because the purpose that God had for them was complete.

B. It could be a lack of faith.

C. It could be possible that they didn't cease but we really don't know for sure.

All I'm saying is if cessationists are going to critique every dispensational belief, fine. But if you're going to do your belief justice, you should also critique those old writers that had no real way of knowing everything everywhere that they wrote about. Even with the internet today, everything cannot be known, for there's some totally off the grid. So how did these old writers know so much without our modern advantages? This isn't just about what we believe. It's about proving the accuracy of past history. On both sides, there's not a one of us that doesn't know that history gets written by people that steers it the way they think it ought to be.
Everyone deserves to know that they know about their beliefs, not just know what they've read.

 

[Stephen63]

The gift of knowledge.

Good answer! Now how can we know everything about the Bible if that gift has ceased? For example, the "sons of God" of Genesis? The Nephilim? Since there are no solid answers on these things as well as others, don't we need the gift of knowledge?

 

[Stephen63]

Behold the irony; if we all had clear knowledge about this thread, there would be nothing to talk about right now . We would all agree.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Ok. I am only half sane at the moment, but wouldnt knowledge pass away with prophecy, tongues etc as it is said in 1 cor 13:8?

I am not here to argue, just trying to understand.

 

[GreenNnice]

Actually the gift of revelation for writing scripture is a spiritual gift.
It certainly isn't an unspiritual gift.

The writers of the bible wrote inspired; there words were 'God-breathed' to the 'pages.'


So, in other words, they were chosen by God as one of the ones to write Scripture.

The act of writing Scripture itself, I believe, is what stephensix&3 is referring as not a 'spiritual gift,' stilledwater, if this makes any sense . Scripture, the noun, is not a spiritual gift, I think its what's being said. Now, yes, the verb of 'writing' would be a gift of revelation, that I agree with, stilled.

Is this kind of understanding correct, stevestephen

stephen:

The ceasing of scripture has little to do with this topic, nor does it make any sense because scripture isn't a spiritual gift. To me this seems like confusion. I think we have enough of that already

 

[psalm6819]

Greetings brothers and sisters,

I can't quote a scripture that someone else has not yet quoted but I can say this: my husband was in a wheelchair after being diagnosed with another stroke,neuropathy, and Alzheimer's Disease. His prognosis for survival was very poor. There was no hope. No medicine could bring back the section of the brain affected. I got my Bible and started reading about healing and I started praying. My only hope was God. Within two months Tom began walking, talking,and he knows what's going on. Do I believe God's gift of healing is still available? You bet I do, every morning I see a miracle get outta bed.

 

[GreenNnice]

Originally Posted by Stephen63

I don't know what you're talking about on your first paragraph, & in the 2nd it sounds like you don't know what I'm talking about, either.

whats new?

Yeah, quit it, squirrel, you're starting to make stevestephen think you are me

 

[Stephen63]

Ok. I am only half sane at the moment, but wouldnt knowledge pass away with prophecy, tongues etc as it is said in 1 cor 13:8?

I am not here to argue, just trying to understand.

1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. [SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

V12 is context for V8. "Face to face" means face to face with Christ. Most bibles have these verses sectioned together, because they belong together

1 John 3:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

When we are like Christ in our heavenly bodies, there will be no need for spiritual gifts, For we will wholly be the sons of God. Who needs to be healed in Heaven? Who will need anything in Heaven? This is "that which is perfect"(complete).

 

[Abiding]

Good answer! Now how can we know everything about the Bible if that gift has ceased? For example, the "sons of God" of Genesis? The Nephilim? Since there are no solid answers on these things as well as others, don't we need the gift of knowledge?

Orrrrrrrrrrrrr we dont need to know

 

[Abiding]

Behold the irony; if we all had clear knowledge about this thread, there would be nothing to talk about right now . We would all agree.

D 29:29

 

[Abiding]

Yeah, quit it, squirrel, you're starting to make stevestephen think you are me

I am u...just a updated version

 

[Abiding]

let him play with that awhile