Cessationism or Continuationism: What Does Scripture Say?

[zone]

Isaiah 2:2 Bible Knowledge commentary:

2:1-2a. The message recorded in these verses is what Isaiah... saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem (cf. 1:1). The prophets in Israel had at one time been called “seers” because of their divinely given power to “see” or foretell what would happen (1 Sam. 9:9). Here Isaiah was foretelling the future of Jerusalem and Judah. In the prophecies of restoration which are prominent in Isaiah’s book, he was not specific as to the exact time when they would be fulfilled (perhaps he did not know; cf. 1 Peter 1:10-11). Here he simply said in the last days. Other Bible passages make it clear that these predictions will be fulfilled in the Millennium, Christ’s 1,000-year reign on the earth.Because of God’s covenant promises to Abraham, Moses, and David, Isaiah knew that Israel will again be in the land and will again have a superior position among the nations.
The mountain of the Lord’s temple refers to the mount where the temple was built (and where the millennial temple will be built, Ezek. 40-43). Often in the Scriptures mountains denote governmental authorities (Dan. 2:35; Amos 4:1). Here God’s rule from the temple will be preeminent (chief). The theme of the prominence of the temple mount in Jerusalem is repeated often in Isaiah’s prophecies all the way to the end of the book (Isa. 11:9; 25:6-7; 27:13; 30:29; 56:7; 57:13; 65:11, 25; 66:20). Isaiah clearly wanted his readers to be aware that God will protect His covenant nation despite their spiritual insensitivity and even though they would go into captivity.
2:2b-3. When these events take place many nations will be attracted to Jerusalem (cf. 14:1; 27:13; 66:23; Zech. 8:23; 14:16) and to God’s house (the temple, Isa. 2:2a). The attraction will be the Lord’s ways... paths... Law, and Word which will be made known from that place. In fact the Lord Himself will give forth the Law (51:4). (Zion, referred to dozens of times by Isaiah, more than by any other author of Scripture, is here a synonym of Jerusalem; cf. 4:3; 40:9, 52:1; 62:1. See comments on Zech. 8:3.) In the Millennium, people everywhere will realize that God’s revelation is foundational to their lives. They will want to know it (He will teach us) and to live according to it (walk in it).

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: Old & New Testament, 2 Volumes
Edited By: John F. Walvoord, Roy B. Zuck
By: Edited by John F. Walvoord & Roy B. Zuck
David C. Cook / 1989 / Hardcover

Product Description

Edited by John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary features insightful exposition and commentary on the entire Bible from members of the distinguished Dallas Theological Seminary faculty. For commentary from the historical-grammatical and premillennial perspectives, it's hard to beat this commentary, and the commitment to scriptural inerrancy is unmatched. Thoroughly conservative and Evangelical, this commentary showcases what Dallas Theological Seminary has become world famous for, and offers all students of the Bible an insightful and applicable commentary.

...............

Dispensationalism is an evangelical, futurist, Biblical interpretation that understands God to have related to human beings in different ways under different Biblical covenants in a series of "dispensations," or periods in history.

As a system, dispensationalism is expounded in the writings of John Nelson Darby (1800–1882) and the Plymouth Brethren movement,[1]:10 and propagated through works such as Cyrus Scofield's Scofield Reference Bible. The theology of dispensationalism consists of a distinctive eschatological end times perspective, as all dispensationalists hold to premillennialism and most hold to a pretribulation rapture. Dispensationalists believe that the nation of Israel is distinct from the Christian Church,[2]:322 and that God has yet to fulfill his promises to national Israel. These promises include the land promises, which in the future world to come result in a millennial kingdom and Third Temple where Christ, upon his return, will rule the world from Jerusalem[3] for a thousand years. In other areas of theology, dispensationalists hold to a wide range of beliefs within the evangelical and fundamentalist spectrum.[1]:13

With the rise of dispensationalism, some conservative Protestants came to interpret Book of Revelation not as an account of past events (with specific reference to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, a position known as Preterism) but as predictions of the future.[4][5][6]

Estimates of the number of followers of Dispensationalist beliefs vary between 5 and 40 million in the United States alone.[7]

Distinction between Israel and the Church
All dispensationalists hold to a clear distinction between Israel and the Church. Israel is an ethnic nation[8] consisting of Hebrews (Israelites), beginning with Abraham and continuing in existence to the present. The church consists of all saved individuals in this present dispensation—i.e., from the "birth of the Church" in Acts until the time of the Rapture.[9] The distinction between Israel and the Church is not mutually exclusive, as there is a recognized overlap between the two.
[1]:295 The overlap consists of Jewish Christians (such as Peter and Paul - although the Apostle Paul was also a Roman citizen, by birth, he was of the tribe of Benjamin and a strong Jewish nationalist in heart (Rom 9:1-3)) who are ethnically Jewish and also have faith in Jesus Christ.

Dispensationalists also believe that toward the end of the Tribulation, Israel as a nation will turn and embrace Jesus as their messiah right before his second coming during the Great Tribulation. The spectrum of teaching on Israel and the Church may be depicted as below:[10]

Classical dispensationalists refer to the present day Church as a "parenthesis" or temporary interlude in the progress of Israel's prophesied history.[11] Progressive dispensationalism "softens" the Church/Israel distinction by seeing some Old Testament promises as expanded by the New Testament to include the Church. However, progressives never view this expansion as replacing promises to its original audience, Israel.[12]

.....



Dispensationalism has become very popular with American evangelicalism[citation needed], especially among nondenominational Bible churches, Baptists, Pentecostal, and Charismatic groups.


Protestant denomiminations that as a whole embrace covenant theology reject dispensationalism. For example, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church USA termed it "evil and subversive" and regards it as a heresy.[24]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism




okay.
that's all from me.
take care.

 

[Stephen63]

In view of previous comments by zone, I will remove Isaiah 2:2 & Micah 4:1. The rest remain intact. I'm only gonna do this once.

Anyone who looks up "last days" or "latter days" on the internet bible sites or their own software would conclude that this is not true.

Daniel 2:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28[/SUP] But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; Not completely fulfilled yet

Daniel 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days. Not completely fulfilled yet


Hosea 3:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine.
[SUP]2[/SUP] So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley:

[SUP]3[/SUP] And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee.
[SUP]4[/SUP] For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. Not fulfilled yet

Acts 2:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Still being fulfilled

2 Timothy 3:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. Not completely fulfilled yet

2 Peter 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3[/SUP] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, Not completely fulfilled yet

The last days goes to the end of all things written in scripture. How can anyone not possibly see that?

 

[zone]

Daniel 2:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28[/SUP] But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; Not completely fulfilled yet

Daniel 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days. Not completely fulfilled yet

Hosea 3:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine.
[SUP]2[/SUP] So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley:

[SUP]3[/SUP] And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee.
[SUP]4[/SUP] For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. Not fulfilled yet


Acts 2:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Still being fulfilled

In view of previous comments by zone, I will remove Isaiah 2:2 & Micah 4:1. The rest remain intact. I'm only gonna do this once.

are you open to seeing Scripture itself testify that the above passages have also been fulfilled?
would you consider it if the Bible confirms it?

 

[Stephen63]

Proof that cessationism has been false doctrine for 1700(?) years
[HR][/HR]
Justin Martyr (a.d. 100-165) boasted to the Jewish Trypho "that the prophetic gifts remain with us" (Dialogue with Trypho, 82).

Irenaeus (a.d. 120-200) also bears witness to the presence of the gifts of the Spirit.
He writes:
• "We have heard of many of the brethren who have foreknowledge of the future, visions, and prophetic utterances; others, by laying-on of hands, heal the sick and restore them to health" (Against Heresies, 2:32,4).
• "We hear of many members of the church who have prophetic gifts, and, by the Spirit speak with all kinds of tongues, and bring men's secret thoughts to light for their own good, and expound the mysteries of God" (Against Heresies, 5:6,1).
• "It is impossible to enumerate the charisms which throughout the world the church has received from God" (Against Heresies, 2:32,4).

Eusebius himself concludes that the charismata were all still in operation down to the time in which Irenaeus lived (Ecclesiastical History, 5:7,6).

Apollinarius is quoted by Eusebius as saying that "the prophetic gifts must continue in the church until the final coming, as the apostle insists" (EH, 5:16,7).

Epiphanius, perhaps the most vocal opponent of the Montanists, did not attack them because they practiced the gifts of the Spirit. Indeed, he declared that "the charism [of prophecy] is not inoperative in the church. Quite the opposite. . . . The holy church of God welcomes the same [charisms] as the Montanists, but ours are real charisms, authenticated for the church by the Holy Spirit" (Panarion, forty-eight).

Augustine (354-430), early on espoused cessationism. However, in his later writings he retracted his denial of the ongoing reality of the miraculous and carefully documented no fewer than 70 instances of divine healing in his own diocese during a two-year span (see his City of God, Book XXII, chps. 8-10). See especially the articles by Richard Riss, "Tongues and Other Miraculous Gifts in the Second Through Nineteenth Centuries," Basileia, 1985.

Charles Spurgeon is a case in point. This is taken from his autobiography:
“I could tell as many as a dozen similar cases in which I pointed at somebody in the hall without having the slightest knowledge of the person, or any idea that what I said was right, except that I believed I was moved by the Spirit to say it; and so striking has been my description, that the persons have gone away, and said to their friends, ‘Come, see a man that told me all things that ever I did; beyond a doubt, he must have been sent of God to my soul, or else he could not have described me so exactly.’ And not only so, but I have known many instances in which the thoughts of men have been revealed from the pulpit.”
(The Autobiography of Charles H. Spurgeon, [Curts & Jennings, 1899], Vol. II, pp. 226-227).

All of the above was taken from:
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com...hurch-history/

 

[zone]

Proof that cessationism has been false doctrine for 1700(?) years
[HR][/HR]
Justin Martyr (a.d. 100-165) boasted to the Jewish Trypho "that the prophetic gifts remain with us" (Dialogue with Trypho, 82).

Irenaeus (a.d. 120-200) also bears witness to the presence of the gifts of the Spirit.
He writes:
• "We have heard of many of the brethren who have foreknowledge of the future, visions, and prophetic utterances; others, by laying-on of hands, heal the sick and restore them to health" (Against Heresies, 2:32,4).
• "We hear of many members of the church who have prophetic gifts, and, by the Spirit speak with all kinds of tongues, and bring men's secret thoughts to light for their own good, and expound the mysteries of God" (Against Heresies, 5:6,1).
• "It is impossible to enumerate the charisms which throughout the world the church has received from God" (Against Heresies, 2:32,4).

Eusebius himself concludes that the charismata were all still in operation down to the time in which Irenaeus lived (Ecclesiastical History, 5:7,6).

Apollinarius is quoted by Eusebius as saying that "the prophetic gifts must continue in the church until the final coming, as the apostle insists" (EH, 5:16,7).

Epiphanius, perhaps the most vocal opponent of the Montanists, did not attack them because they practiced the gifts of the Spirit. Indeed, he declared that "the charism [of prophecy] is not inoperative in the church. Quite the opposite. . . . The holy church of God welcomes the same [charisms] as the Montanists, but ours are real charisms, authenticated for the church by the Holy Spirit" (Panarion, forty-eight).

Augustine (354-430), early on espoused cessationism. However, in his later writings he retracted his denial of the ongoing reality of the miraculous and carefully documented no fewer than 70 instances of divine healing in his own diocese during a two-year span (see his City of God, Book XXII, chps. 8-10). See especially the articles by Richard Riss, "Tongues and Other Miraculous Gifts in the Second Through Nineteenth Centuries," Basileia, 1985.

Charles Spurgeon is a case in point. This is taken from his autobiography:
“I could tell as many as a dozen similar cases in which I pointed at somebody in the hall without having the slightest knowledge of the person, or any idea that what I said was right, except that I believed I was moved by the Spirit to say it; and so striking has been my description, that the persons have gone away, and said to their friends, ‘Come, see a man that told me all things that ever I did; beyond a doubt, he must have been sent of God to my soul, or else he could not have described me so exactly.’ And not only so, but I have known many instances in which the thoughts of men have been revealed from the pulpit.”
(The Autobiography of Charles H. Spurgeon, [Curts & Jennings, 1899], Vol. II, pp. 226-227).

All of the above was taken from:
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com...hurch-history/

one at a time i suppose.
this is really underhanded....unless you just have continuationist quickie-resources and use them without investigation.
in any case, you may want to revise your 'proofs' list:



Spurgeon said:
"I have been the subject of such impressions, myself, and have seen very singular results. But to live by impressions is often times to live the life of a fool and even to fall into downright rebellion against the revealed Word of God. Not your impressions, but that which is in this Bible must always guide you."

....


Charles Spurgeon was a cessationist. He regarded the charismata as apostolic signs—unique gifts for a unique era. He taught (as did virtually every evangelical preacher of his era) that the miraculous gifts described in Acts and 1 Corinthians (including the ability to command physical healing or speak in tongues) ceased before the end of the apostolic era.

Nonetheless, Spurgeon is sometimes cited by contemporary charismatics as someone who would be sympathetic with the idea of modern supernatural prophetic utterances, because he himself occasionally acted upon strong subjective impressions as if they were special revelatory messages from the Holy Spirit. Here are a couple of examples from his sermons:

- see examples at site -

On the other hand, whenever Spurgeon discussed such things, he nearly always warned of the dangers of such mysticism. Here are a few of his famous comments on the subject:

"Our Manifesto" (sermon 2185):
I hope that none of us will ever fall into the snare of following the guidance of impressions made upon us by texts which happen to come prominently before our minds. You have judgements, and you must not lay them aside to be guided by accidental impressions.


"The Holy Spirit in Connection with Our Ministry" from Lectures to My Students, Vol. 3:
I need scarcely warn any brother here against falling into the delusion that we may have the Spirit so as to become inspired. Yet the members of a certain litigious modern sect need to be warned against this folly. They hold that their meetings are under "the presidency of the Holy Spirit:" concerning which notion I can only say that I have been unable to discover in holy Scripture either the term or the idea. I do find in the New Testament a body of Corinthians eminently gifted, fond of speaking:, and given to party strifes—true representatives of those to whom I allude, but as Paul said of them, "I thank God I baptized none of you," so also do I thank the Lord that few of that school have ever been found in our midst.

- see more examples at site -

PyroManiac: Spurgeon on private prophecies and new revelation


tbc

 

[zone]

are you open to seeing Scripture itself testify that the above passages have also been fulfilled?
would you consider it if the Bible confirms it?

did you consider this post stephen?
because the Bible itself declares clearly the passages you cited were fulfilled.
are you willing to see that?

 

[zone]

"Phonity. noun: superficial unity for which fundamental differences are ignored."

“As long as Reformed—which I assume to be cessationist*—and Charismatic Christians continue to pretend the differences between them are minor and sweep them under the couch, their unity is fake, false, phony, fraudulent, and fraught with failure.” Phonity

sharperiron.org

 

[Stephen63]

This may help explain things more clearly about Dispensationalism

<span style="font-size: 13px;">[video=youtube;cH9ID7fJ75E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH9ID7fJ75E&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Abiding]

Stephen...good work. I love civilized debate......but when
its over no matter who wins.....i hope we are still allowed
to "to test all things" because it seems judging gifts is as
illegal as talking about the "state" of Israel.

 

[GreenNnice]

Prophecy and tongues speaking and healing are miracles.

What I find amazing is that whoever denies miraculous healing has to become a doctor because they are denying the truth that a doctor , in January, for example, , had someone in their office diagnosed with cancer, and, the next month, in Feb., they return, after having been prayed over by church members , and, that cancer is gone. No treatment started even.

 

[Abiding]

Prophecy and tongues speaking and healing are miracles.

What I find amazing is that whoever denies miraculous healing has to become a doctor because they are denying the truth that a doctor , in January, for example, , had someone in their office diagnosed with cancer, and, the next month, in Feb., they return, after having been prayed over by church members , and, that cancer is gone. No treatment started even.

yes and i know heathen without prayer that have had diseases go away and the doctor
marvelled at that also.....was it God? I think so.

whos denying the truth? what truth?

 

[GreenNnice]

As far as tongues and prophesying go, why do you NEED to see them , done?? Why not just believe without even one 'cast' of doubt that direction? By saying you do not believe God today, through His Spirit in us, works today through these 'two' means, what does this say your 'state' of belief is in Christ? Are we not to boast of Christ alone, His power worked through us and in is, and, IF we are doubting His ability to work through His workmanship (that's us ) then what does that say of our confidence in Christ, ultimately, faithfully trusted as our Lord?

 

[Abiding]

As far as tongues and prophesying go, why do you NEED to see them , done?? Why not just believe without even one 'cast' of doubt that direction? By saying you do not believe God today, through His Spirit in us, works today through these 'two' means, what does this say your 'state' of belief is in Christ? Are we not to boast of Christ alone, His power worked through us and in is, and, IF we are doubting His ability to work through His workmanship (that's us ) then what does that say of our confidence in Christ, ultimately, faithfully trusted as our Lord?

Who are you talking to?

 

[Stephen63]

I have noticed that there is no place in the epistles to the churches that their future generations are to ignore or remove certain portions of scripture, for it's not for them. We are taught that this is the full canon of scripture , that's it's complete. We are taught not to take away or add to it.

Joel 2:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: [SUP]29 [/SUP]And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Acts 2:14-18 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

 

[Stephen63]

Here's a good video of Jim Cymbala on Tongues, it misuse, its abuse, & its true use.

<font size="3">[video=youtube;xQvzW06x_Gg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQvzW06x_Gg[/video]

 

[GreenNnice]

Why not have faith, abidingsquirrel, why not give the glory to God when someone rises out of a wheelchair, why do we judge that gift as fake? I, for one, believe Christ did miraculously heal that person, rise them from that wheelchair as they had faith in Him . Some like to think someone is false, fake, a phony, as ohZone, puts it, when, in reality, in his/her/their own way they are just believing in Christ's work in that healed person's life and, also, God's work in their life . But, point is, we can't play doctor, and, we can't play God, we should TRUST that He does 'work' all the time in others today in this 9+ billion populated world, that, occassionally, not as a degreed doctor, but, in His way for us we too see miracles done before our eyes. why not boast in the Lord for that work instead of boasting the person is fake, phony, being led by Satan ? Or, just saying, 'it's fake,' does that then, when you utter those words, give glory to The Devil

yes and i know heathen without prayer that have had diseases go away and the doctor
marvelled at that also.....was it God? I think so.

whos denying the truth? what truth?

 

[GreenNnice]

I have noticed that there is no place in the epistles to the churches that their future generations are to ignore or remove certain portions of scripture, for it's not for them. We are taught that this is the full canon of scripture , that's it's complete. We are taught not to take away or add to it.

Joel 2:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: [SUP]29 [/SUP]And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Acts 2:14-18 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Two more keys to understanding are: afterward and on all flesh

 

[psalm6819]

Why not have faith, abidingsquirrel, why not give the glory to God when someone rises out of a wheelchair, why do we judge that gift as fake? I, for one, believe Christ did miraculously heal that person, rise them from that wheelchair as they had faith in Him . Some like to think someone is false, fake, a phony, as ohZone, puts it, when, in reality, in his/her/their own way they are just believing in Christ's work in that healed person's life and, also, God's work in their life .

I have the utmost respect for you, GreenNnice buti in defence of Zone I will say this: When I posted about my husband's healing she didn't call me fake or phony or dishonor God in any way.

God4982. sozosode'-zo: to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively); heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole
won't force us to accept His gifts and blessings any more than He forces us to accept salvation. (in the greek-sozo)
4982. sozosode'-zo: to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively); heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole So if ppl don't want to believe for more I don't condemn. I don't have to win the debate because the Holy Spirit changes hearts and minds-not me. NOTHING is impossible for God (except to lie) but He will always respect our free will. The gifts and blessings are there for the taking.

 

[zone]

I have noticed that there is no place in the epistles to the churches that their future generations are to ignore or remove certain portions of scripture, for it's not for them. We are taught that this is the full canon of scripture , that's it's complete. We are taught not to take away or add to it.

the prophet Joel prophesied in :

c. 835 BC

Joel 2:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: [SUP]29 [/SUP]And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

according to peter, Joel's prophecy came to pass in :

c. 30 AD

Acts 2:14-18 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Peter said in 30 AD:

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel

FULFILLED.

I have noticed that there is no place in the epistles to the churches that their future generations are to ignore or remove certain portions of scripture, for it's not for them. We are taught that this is the full canon of scripture , that's it's complete. We are taught not to take away or add to it.

Peter said the promise they were promised CAME TO THEM.
in 30AD.

We are taught not to take away or add to it.

i wonder why people don't believe the Bible.

 

[zone]

"Phonity. noun: superficial unity for which fundamental differences are ignored."

“As long as Reformed—which I assume to be cessationist*—and Charismatic Christians continue to pretend the differences between them are minor and sweep them under the couch, their unity is fake, false, phony, fraudulent, and fraught with failure.” Phonity

sharperiron.org

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Why not have faith, abidingsquirrel, why not give the glory to God when someone rises out of a wheelchair, why do we judge that gift as fake? I, for one, believe Christ did miraculously heal that person, rise them from that wheelchair as they had faith in Him . Some like to think someone is false, fake, a phony, as ohZone, puts it, when, in reality, in his/her/their own way they are just believing in Christ's work in that healed person's life and, also, God's work in their life . But, point is, we can't play doctor, and, we can't play God, we should TRUST that He does 'work' all the time in others today in this 9+ billion populated world, that, occassionally, not as a degreed doctor, but, in His way for us we too see miracles done before our eyes. why not boast in the Lord for that work instead of boasting the person is fake, phony, being led by Satan ? Or, just saying, 'it's fake,' does that then, when you utter those words, give glory to The Devil

you don't even know what the issue is.