Cessationism or Continuationism: What Does Scripture Say?

[zone]

The gift of knowledge.

[i would prefer not to use completion of canon - maybe rather the last word recorded* - canonized scripture came later, still obviously Holy Spirit inspired, but not the point. the point was the completion of the revelation of God's Plan]


........

1 Cor 13:8-13: Gifts ceased upon the completion of the canon

Setting the context:

In 1 Cor 13 Paul discussed spiritual gifts from two angles.


V1-7 He singled out tongues, prophecy, inspired knowledge and supernatural faith (as representative of all spiritual gifts) and contrasted them with love as their superior (vs. 1-7).

This contrast has to do with the value of spiritual gifts.

V8-13 Then Paul referred to the three gifts of prophecies, tongues, and knowledge (again obviously representing all spiritual gifts) and contrasted them with the Christian virtues of faith, hope and love (vs. 8-13).

This contrast has to do with the duration of spiritual gifts. As long as earthly life shall last, faith, hope and love will abide (v. 13), whereas spiritual gifts were going to "cease" or be "be done away" (v. 8). The termination of the gifts would be "when that which is perfect is come" (v. 10).

CESSATION OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS: Exposition of: 1 Cor 13:8-13


........


*
Revelation 22
16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

17The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

 

[zone]

The writers of the bible wrote inspired; there words were 'God-breathed' to the 'pages.'


So, in other words, they were chosen by God as one of the ones to write Scripture.

The act of writing Scripture itself, I believe, is what stephensix&3 is referring as not a 'spiritual gift,' stilledwater, if this makes any sense . Scripture, the noun, is not a spiritual gift, I think its what's being said. Now, yes, the verb of 'writing' would be a gift of revelation, that I agree with, stilled.

Is this kind of understanding correct, stevestephen

stephen: [/SIZE]

okay....so since we assume our scriptures are complete, what authority do we have today that is equal to it?
i mean men...what men are walking around today equal in inpsiration and infallibility to the Lord, His Apostles and prophets (the foundation) OR our Holy Writ?

who or what is the authority equal to it?

 

[zone]

Greetings brothers and sisters,

I can't quote a scripture that someone else has not yet quoted but I can say this: my husband was in a wheelchair after being diagnosed with another stroke,neuropathy, and Alzheimer's Disease. His prognosis for survival was very poor. There was no hope. No medicine could bring back the section of the brain affected. I got my Bible and started reading about healing and I started praying. My only hope was God. Within two months Tom began walking, talking,and he knows what's going on. Do I believe God's gift of healing is still available? You bet I do, every morning I see a miracle get outta bed.

amen.
all Glory to Our God.

no cessationist says God doesn't heal today or answer prayers.
none i know of.

 

[zone]

What type of "knowledge" is this passage talking about?

just like all those gifts, it's referring to supernaturally instantly revealed knowledge.
knowledge the disciples didn't have previously.
just like the languages - they didn't know them, yet miraculously spoke in them at Pentecost.

knowledge of what God was saying - what He wanted recorded.
what His instructions and guidance for them was - they didn't have all the information we have.
their knowledge of God's Will was partial compared to what we have with our Bibles.

Paul said several time that he was revealing a MYSTERY - something no one knew yet.
i.e. - the mystery that the gentiles were always intended to be fellow heirs in the Church - he said that mystery had been hidden in previous ages but was NOW (then) made known. that hasn't been a mystery since Paul received it via supernatural revelation knowledge.)

also:

Romans 16:25
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past.....

Colossians 1:26
the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord's people.

this is so clear...i dunno


Ephesians 3:4
In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ

in reading what was infallibly revealed and recorded, he said we will be able to understand HIS insight into the mystery of Christ.

i don't know how much clearer it could be really.

 

[zone]

"Think of 1 Cor 13:8-13 as Paul's sermon outline entitled "Partial Vs Complete Knowledge" It has an introduction that states the main point, two illustrations of this main point, and a conclusion that restates the point!


A. Introduction: States the main point plainly in V9-10

The contrast is between partial and complete KNOWLEDGE

B. Illustrations: Uses two illustrations to explain main point:

FIRST: child/man v11 (see 1 Cor 14:20 gifts referred to as childish)

SECOND: mirror darkly/face to face V12 (polished brass mirror)

C. Conclusion: Restates main point again plainly: V13

contrast is once again between partial and complete KNOWLEDGE

CESSATION OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS: Exposition of: 1 Cor 13:8-13

 

[zone]

It is often forgotten that words can have MULTIPLE meanings. Knowledge is one of them. Paul was given words of knowledge IE "I show you a mystery...." ,James had it too when he said "if any of you are sick...."

Would you agree you have to take the passage within the context and also within the whole council of God? If so then there is a bit of a problem when you have words in the Old Testament like knowledge and wisdom. In the Old Testament you have verses like this

Psalm 119

Do good to your servant
according to your word, Lord.
​

66​

Teach me knowledge and good judgment,
for I trust your commands.
​

67​

Before I was afflicted I went astray,
but now I obey your word.

Proverbs 1


1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:​

2 for gaining wisdom and instruction;
for understanding words of insight;
3 for receiving instruction in prudent behavior,
doing what is right and just and fair;
4 for giving prudence to those who are simple,[a]
knowledge and discretion to the young—
5 let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance—
6 for understanding proverbs and parables,
the sayings and riddles of the wise.[b]​

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools[c] despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 2

2 My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding—
3 indeed, if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
7 He holds success in store for the upright,
he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
8 for he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones.


​

So if they are using those same words in the Old Testament it can only mean one of two things when both those words are used in the Old and New Testaments. A. The Old Testament believers had the gifts of the Holy Spirit or B. They learned knowledge,wisdom and discernment by the hearing and preaching of the word.
If it is B through the hearing and preaching of the word then they are NOT one and the same.

Go through Proverbs and see how many times both wisdom and knowledge are used and see how many times it is implied about discernment. Those things are in the Old Testament also. And it can only be of two things either they had the gifts of the Holy Spirit or they learned them. And they are not one and the same.

Hebrews 1
1Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Revelation 22
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

 

[Stephen63]

The nouns "prophecy" and "knowledge" (vs. 2, 8) are feminine in the Greek. But in verses 9 and 10 we have verbs, not nouns, thus requiring neuter modifiers. In verse 9 the verbs "know" and "prophesy" are both modified by the adverbial expression ek merous ("in part"). But in verse 10 those verbs and their modifiers are brought together and replaced by the single substantive expression to ek merous ("that which is in part"). Whatever is partial in verse 9 is "that" which is partial in verse 10. And since to teleion ("the perfect") is the counterpart to to ek rmerous ("that which is in part"), it is absolutely clear that the "perfect" also refers to those same verbs. Therefore, the word "perfect" describes the completion of inspired preaching and points to the consequent cessation of the spiritual gifts which enabled and confirmed that preaching.

CESSATION OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS: Exposition of: 1 Cor 13:8-13


why would this be the ONLY place Paul would refer to Jesus Second Coming or our eternal state in this way.
it's obvious it's not what he's talking about.

What are your sources that I can look into this further?

 

[SarahM777]

Ummm... no. The context is too plain to consider it another way.

UMM Stephen,

Then help me out with this,because if Paul is saying that all knowledge of God is imparted by the spiritual gift of knowledge, then doesn't that mean the old testament believers also had the spiritual gifts?

 

[zone]

What are your sources that I can look into this further?

CESSATION OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS: Exposition of: 1 Cor 13:8-13 < click

Cessationism Resources < click

Cessationism - Cessationist - Spiritual Gifts - The Ultimate Cessationism Resource < click

 

[GreenNnice]

[i would prefer not to use completion of canon - maybe rather the last word recorded* - canonized scripture came later, still obviously Holy Spirit inspired, but not the point. the point was the completion of the revelation of God's Plan]

........

1 Cor 13:8-13: Gifts ceased upon the completion of the canon

Setting the context:

In 1 Cor 13 Paul discussed spiritual gifts from two angles.


V1-7 He singled out tongues, prophecy, inspired knowledge and supernatural faith (as representative of all spiritual gifts) and contrasted them with love as their superior (vs. 1-7).

This contrast has to do with the value of spiritual gifts.

V8-13 Then Paul referred to the three gifts of prophecies, tongues, and knowledge (again obviously representing all spiritual gifts) and contrasted them with the Christian virtues of faith, hope and love (vs. 8-13).

This contrast has to do with the duration of spiritual gifts. As long as earthly life shall last, faith, hope and love will abide (v. 13), whereas spiritual gifts were going to "cease" or be "be done away" (v. 8). The termination of the gifts would be "when that which is perfect is come" (v. 10).

CESSATION OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS: Exposition of: 1 Cor 13:8-13


........


*
Revelation 22
16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

17The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

oh zone, why would Paul put 'meet face to face' if it was Scripture? Why not just say 'we don't see all of the Scripture now, just a part.'


Why does Paul paint something as simple to explain as this ^ in such an obscure, confusing way as you dispensationally say?

Faith, hope, and, love = prophecy, tongues healing parallel .

Again, highly dispensational view point. You ARE reading into things, ohzone, that just aren't there


While were at it, I did another thread on the great and coming of the Lord 'in the last days,' and, asked what are 'the last days,' are they the last days of life on Earth before Rapture, or, are they just the Day of Pentecost, or, some other time. (three choices).
Again, you NEED to use great dispensation to think 'in the last days' refers to not the last days of time.

So, mazel tof!, you are 3-for-3, milady ! Batting a .1000 You , dispensationalist, you .

 

[zone]

oh zone, why would Paul put 'meet face to face' if it was Scripture? Why not just say 'we don't see all of the Scripture now, just a part.'

green, could you spend the time reading the sources please?
this has been addressed many many times.

the face to face reference is used in connection with -

NOW (in his time) we see through a glass darkly (a blurry mirror) but THEN (when the complete comes) we will see face to face (clearly).

the illustration he is using is a MIRROR.
you don't see Jesus when you look in a mirror, you see yourself more clearly.

it's not talking about seeing Jesus face to face.
it's talking about the mirror no longer being cloudy or blurry - it's an allegory or illustration about KNOWLEDGE - complete VS partial.

cloudy or blurry vs clear and complete.

Why does Paul paint something as simple to explain as this ^ in such an obscure, confusing way as you dispensationally say?

huh...
peter said his sayings were hard to understand and some would wrestle them to their destruction.
we should pay attention to this.

it`s not confusing at all.
its crystal clear.

Faith, hope, and, love = prophecy, tongues healing parallel .

Again, highly dispensational view point. You ARE reading into things, ohzone, that just aren't there

what are you talking about.
just read it as an historical record. him speaking right to living ppl in his day.
i dunno.
its clear.

While were at it, I did another thread on the great and coming of the Lord 'in the last days,' and, asked what are 'the last days,' are they the last days of life on Earth before Rapture, or, are they just the Day of Pentecost, or, some other time. (three choices).
Again, you NEED to use great dispensation to think 'in the last days' refers to not the last days of time.

So, mazel tof!, you are 3-for-3, milady ! Batting a .1000 You , dispensationalist, you .

please.
im not a dispensationalist, i dont find this funny.

the last days are since Christ walked the earth, but specifically in places it referring when jews are discussed, it means the last days of the Jewish national Temple system and Old Covenant.....just before 70AD

look up Hebrews 1

 

[Stephen63]

the last days are since Christ walked the earth, but specifically in places it referring when jews are discussed, it means the last days of the Jewish national Temple system and Old Covenant.....just before 70AD
look up Hebrews 1

Anyone who looks up "last days" or "latter days" on the internet bible sites or their own software would conclude that this is not true.
Isaiah 2:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. Hasn't happened yet


Daniel 2:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28[/SUP] But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; Not completely fulfilled yet


Daniel 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days. Not completely fulfilled yet


Hosea 3:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine.
[SUP]2[/SUP] So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley:

[SUP]3[/SUP] And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee.
[SUP]4[/SUP] For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. Not fulfilled yet


Micah 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. Not fulfilled yet


Acts 2:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Still being fulfilled


2 Timothy 3:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. Not completely fulfilled yet


2 Peter 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3[/SUP] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, Not completely fulfilled yet


The last days goes to the end of all things written in scripture. How can anyone not possibly see that?

 

[zone]

Anyone who looks up "last days" or "latter days" on the internet bible sites or their own software would conclude that this is not true.

oh.
well, i'll come back and help you with that.
ya kinda missed it - on several counts.
a couple i agree with your conclusions.

BUT - what was it I SAID you claim IS NOT TRUE?

the last days are since Christ walked the earth, but specifically in places it referring when jews are discussed, it means the last days of the Jewish national Temple system and Old Covenant.....just before 70AD

look up Hebrews 1

the last days are since Christ walked the earth
in places .....it means the last days of the Jewish national Temple system and Old Covenant

you say this is not true.
okay

let`s take a look at each passage you posted.

Isaiah 2:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. Hasn't happened yet


Daniel 2:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28[/SUP] But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; Not completely fulfilled yet


Daniel 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days. Not completely fulfilled yet


Hosea 3:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine.
[SUP]2[/SUP] So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley:

[SUP]3[/SUP] And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee.
[SUP]4[/SUP] For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. Not fulfilled yet


Micah 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. Not fulfilled yet


Acts 2:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Still being fulfilled


2 Timothy 3:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. Not completely fulfilled yet


2 Peter 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3[/SUP] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, Not completely fulfilled yet

The last days goes to the end of all things written in scripture. How can anyone not possibly see that?

the last days are since Christ walked the earth, but specifically in places it referring when jews are discussed, it means the last days of the Jewish national Temple system and Old Covenant.....just before 70AD

so you see some huge difference between what i posted and what you posted in the 2 above boxes.

that`s fine. there isn`t.
but your wrong about what is and is not fulfilled.
ill give it a go. if youre willing to consider the passage that say what is fulfilled and accept them at face value.

if we are gonna argue with what the text specifically says in the face of it.....then im out.
no more energy for it.
peeps gon believe what dey want.

 

[NiceneCreed]

Tru Dat. Fo Sho!

 

[Stephen63]

Tru Dat. Fo Sho!

Which one?

 

[NiceneCreed]

It's for no one in particular. I just felt inspired to say it. Silly, right?

 

[zone]

Anyone who looks up "last days" or "latter days" on the internet bible sites or their own software would conclude that this is not true.

Heb 1 is specifically saying God isn't speaking to the jews through prophets any more.

this places the last days from Christ's speaking to the people face to face, and, is within the transitional time between the Old and New Covenants (though the New came with Christ, the temple was still standing and the people - including believing jews were still involved in the Old Temple system...for a few more short years).

this does not mean in these last days doesn't extend to the LAST DAY. it does.



remember - if these things were NOT fulfilled for the lost sheep of Israel to Whom ALONE He was sent, not one of us is saved.




1) c. 68AD

Hebrews 1:2
New International Version (©2011)
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

New Living Translation (©2007)
And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.

English Standard Version (©2001)
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Isaiah 2:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. Hasn't happened yet

we've already seen Hebrews tell us the last days began with Jesus First Advent.
agree?

Hebrews 1:2 c.68AD
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

okay.....

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.


- what is the mountain of the Lord's House? will it be the Temple Mount again?

- will the christians be gone to heavenly Zion but jews will gather in Old Jerusalem on a mountain?

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him

- or is it saying all along just what Jesus said - His Kingdom is not of this world?


Psalm 2
"I have installed my king on Zion, my holy mountain."

- where is Jesus now? He is ruling from Heavenly Jerusalem, Heavenly Zion.
He IS THAT holy mountain.

Hebrews 12 c.68AD
18 For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest 19 and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. 20 For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” 21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Isaiah 2:3
1The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. 3And many people shall go and say, Come you, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem

Luke 24
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
36As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” 37But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. 38And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish,b 43and he took it and ate before them.

44Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. 49And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

- PENTECOST..and the did receive power from on high - the miraculous powers and gifts for the foundation of the Church.

Isaiah 2:3
1The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. 3And many people shall go and say, Come you, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem


- did out of Zion go forth the law - the commandments of Jesus, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem? YES.
- are we expecting Mosaic Law or some other law we don't know yet to come forth from Old Jerusalem? NO.


Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

Acts 13:38
"Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you.

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Isaiah 2:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. Hasn't happened yet

ya....it has.
His Name is Wonderful.

it's talking about His Kingdom - not of this world. all nations ARE flowing into it.




additional consideration - commentaries:

Verses 2-4. - PROPHECY OF THE LAST DAYS. The resemblance of this prophecy to Micah 4:1-3 is so close as to necessitate the conclusion either that one of the two prophets copied from the other, or that both copied from an earlier document. The latter view, which is that taken by Rosenmüller, Maurer, De Wette, Meier, and Mr. Cheyne, seems preferable. Verse 2. - In the last days; literally, in the sequel of the days; but generally used of a remote future (Genesis 49:1; Numbers 24:14; Deuteronomy 4:30, etc.). The mountain of the Lord's house; i.e. the Church, the true Zion, which is to be the antitype of the existing Zion, and is therefore given its material attributes. Spiritually, it would be a "mountain," as "a city set on a hill," which "could not be hid" (Matthew 5:14); and again, as occupying a position from which it would command the whole earth. In the top of the mountains; rather, at the head of the mountains; i.e. with pre-eminence over them. The metaphor is drawn from the common physical fact of a high mountain range culminating in a single supreme eminence. So Mount Hermon towers above the rest of the Antilibanus, Demavend over Elburz, Rowandiz over Zagros. The "mountains" above which the true Zion shall tower are the kingdoms, or perhaps the religions, of the earth. All nations; literally, all the nations; i.e. "all the nations of the earth" (comp. Psalm 72:11). Shall flow; or, stream. A constant accession of converts from all quarters is intended. These are represented as continually streaming upward into the holy mountain of God's house.
Pulpit commentary



And it shall come to pass in the last days,.... The days of the Messiah, as Aben Ezra rightly interprets it; and it is a rule laid down by Kimchi and Ben Melech, that wherever the last days are mentioned, the days of the Messiah are intended. The days of the Messiah commenced in the latter part of the Old Testament dispensation, or Jewish world, towards the close of their civil and church state, at the end of which he was to come, Habakkuk 2:3 and accordingly did, which is called the end of the world, and the last days; that is, of that state, Hebrews 1:2 and ushered in the world to come, or Gospel dispensation, which is properly the days of the Messiah, reaching from his first to his second coming; the first of which were the times of John the Baptist, Christ and his apostles
Gill



forgive typos etc....short on time

TBC

 

[Abiding]

this thread has not ceased
many still continue

 

[zone]

Anyone who looks up "last days" or "latter days" on the internet bible sites or their own software would conclude that this is not true.
Isaiah 2:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. Hasn't happened yet

Isaiah 6 was fulfilled in Christ's day, but Isaiah 2 was not?

Isaiah 6:9
He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'

Matthew 13:14
Isaiah's prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says: You will listen and listen, yet never understand; and you will look and look, yet never perceive.

Daniel 2:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28[/SUP] But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; Not completely fulfilled yet

really?

Daniel 2
Daniel Interprets the Dream
31“You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. 32The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36“This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. 39Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these.

ROME. ^

41 And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.

44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”


in the days of those kings.
fulfilled.

in the very days of those kings in that dream and image the Kingdom CAME. Christ came. He is the Stone.


the Roman Caesars mixed with the Herods and apostate jews < THOSE KINGS.


Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Matthew 1:1
This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Luke 2:11
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Luke 1:32
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

Luke 1:33
and he will reign over Jacob's descendants forever; his kingdom will never end."

Matthew 3:2
and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Ephesians 2:14
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

Ephesians 2:15
by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace

Hebrews 12:28
Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,

...

Matthew 2:16
16Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. 17Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, 18In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not


Jeremiah 31:15
This is what the LORD says: "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more."

FULFILLED ^

TBC later.

 

[Stephen63]

Isaiah 2:2 Bible Knowledge commentary:

2:1-2a. The message recorded in these verses is what Isaiah... saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem (cf. 1:1). The prophets in Israel had at one time been called “seers” because of their divinely given power to “see” or foretell what would happen (1 Sam. 9:9). Here Isaiah was foretelling the future of Jerusalem and Judah. In the prophecies of restoration which are prominent in Isaiah’s book, he was not specific as to the exact time when they would be fulfilled (perhaps he did not know; cf. 1 Peter 1:10-11). Here he simply said in the last days. Other Bible passages make it clear that these predictions will be fulfilled in the Millennium, Christ’s 1,000-year reign on the earth.Because of God’s covenant promises to Abraham, Moses, and David, Isaiah knew that Israel will again be in the land and will again have a superior position among the nations.
The mountain of the Lord’s temple refers to the mount where the temple was built (and where the millennial temple will be built, Ezek. 40-43). Often in the Scriptures mountains denote governmental authorities (Dan. 2:35; Amos 4:1). Here God’s rule from the temple will be preeminent (chief). The theme of the prominence of the temple mount in Jerusalem is repeated often in Isaiah’s prophecies all the way to the end of the book (Isa. 11:9; 25:6-7; 27:13; 30:29; 56:7; 57:13; 65:11, 25; 66:20). Isaiah clearly wanted his readers to be aware that God will protect His covenant nation despite their spiritual insensitivity and even though they would go into captivity.
2:2b-3. When these events take place many nations will be attracted to Jerusalem (cf. 14:1; 27:13; 66:23; Zech. 8:23; 14:16) and to God’s house (the temple, Isa. 2:2a). The attraction will be the Lord’s ways... paths... Law, and Word which will be made known from that place. In fact the Lord Himself will give forth the Law (51:4). (Zion, referred to dozens of times by Isaiah, more than by any other author of Scripture, is here a synonym of Jerusalem; cf. 4:3; 40:9, 52:1; 62:1. See comments on Zech. 8:3.) In the Millennium, people everywhere will realize that God’s revelation is foundational to their lives. They will want to know it (He will teach us) and to live according to it (walk in it).