The Best Church for You - By Brother James L. Melton
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Well Sarah, what I was referring to is the following:
You claim that the NIV is talking about a different morning star in Isaiah 14:12 because it is lowercase. What I pointed out to you is that that is not the case because in 2 Peter 1:19 morning star is not capitalized, its all lowercase:
2 Peter 1:19 NIV
19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
So why didn't they capitalize it here Sarah?
I mean who is it that rises in out hearts?
Are you starting to see the confusion here?
God is not the author of confusion Sarah. Read 1 Cor. 14:33.
And why isn't morning star capitalized in Revelation 2:28?
Revelation 2:28-29 (NIV)
28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
So which morning star are they talking about now?
Again, if the NIV makes a distinction between the two, then surely they would have at least capitalized morning star in this passage. So if they didn't capitalize it here, then that just mean that according to the NIV it was Jesus who fell from Heaven. That's what I was referring to when I said distinction, you just misunderstood what I was saying. In other words, the NIV calls Jesus both the morning star (lowercase) and the Morning Star (capitalized). So the NIV (Non Inspired Version) doesn't make a distinction between Lucifer or Jesus, and the reason it does not is because the NIV makes Jesus and Lucifer one.
There is no error and there is no confusion. King James refers to Lucifer in Isaiah 14, thats the latin designation for morning star. King james also uses lower case when morning star is referenced.
I see no confusion, yet again its saying exactly the same thing, but different words. It is clear that morning star is not a unique title designated to one person, just as antichrist is not unique.
the only confusion is coming from your cult to promote its twisted perverted agenda and to allow your cult to worship the king james 1611 Bible.
I see no confusion, yet again its saying exactly the same thing, but different words. It is clear that morning star is not a unique title designated to one person, just as antichrist is not unique.
the only confusion is coming from your cult to promote its twisted perverted agenda and to allow your cult to worship the king james 1611 Bible.
J
jinx
Guest
We have a "grace bible church" in our town, it can be jammed packed. Have you ever heard of the murder trial of chris coleman? Well, his parents are the pastors of the grace bible church here where I live. I have heard some strange garbage coming from other people who there all the time. One time Chris's dad told the congregation that if they didn't believe in his sons innocence they could just get up and leave the church. I have also heard that they actually teach people to talk in tongues. all kinds of garbage. So when you said the word "grace" in that church name I wondered if this church was the same thing. Because they all sound wack over there.
Your missing the whole point Agricola.
And yes the NIV's rendering of Heylel as morning star is in error and creates much confusion. Because here you have lowercase "morning star" falling from Heaven in Isa. 14:12, but then you have the "morning star" (also lowercase) in 2 Peter 1:19 rising in our hearts. So which morning star is it?
That is confusion.
And no, it is not saying the same thing.
The NIV makes Jesus and Lucifer one. That is why they don't bother to capitalize morning star in 2 Peter 1:19 or Revelation 2:28.
Morning Star is a title for the Lord Jesus Christ. So, rendering of the Hebrew word Heylel as Lucifer in the King James Bible is correct. Because you can see who it is that is falling from Heaven. It is clear. Plus, it is really the only account of the Fall of Lucifer.
Go and ask any Christian you know who the morning star is, and see how they respond.
And then ask them who Lucifer is. And see the difference.
The only twisted agenda here Agricola is Satan's attack on the word of God. Satan does not want you to have a perfect Final Authority. Satan rather have you ignorant on the Bible Version Issue. It looks like he has you right where he wants you. And you are definitely ignorant in regard to this issue, if you don't see the serious issue that the NIV creates in Isaiah 14:12, then you lack spiritual discernment.
As I said before Chosenbyhim, anyone with half a brain cell can work out which morning star is being referred to, its not an exclusive title, just as King is not an exclusive title. As pointed out before, the study bible versions of the NIV actully point this out, so they are not hiding anything. You and your cult are seeing things that are not there, you are paraniod deleduded fools who see Satan behind every change in punctuation , every upper and lower case change, every word change that differs from the 1611, including later re-writings of the King James.
The problem with cults and the same which your cult does, is take verses out of context and tell people what they really mean. people are not allowed to think for themsleves, with help of study notes and aids and the ability to read several versions of the Bible, people can see what the real message is.
I would just let you get on with it, but like all cults only you do things right dont you. You only read the correct Bible and everyone else must follow your cult leaders and read King James, otherwise if people do not read King James, well we have our salvation questioned and by reading another Bible we are condemning our souls and following Satan.
This is the rubbish that I object to and is dangerous and miss-leading which will drive people into bondage.
I do not see Satan behind NIV or anything else, I see Satan behind King James Only Cult, as forcing people to read a Bible which is difficult for them to understand will just make them give up and not bother reading Gods Word.
The problem with cults and the same which your cult does, is take verses out of context and tell people what they really mean. people are not allowed to think for themsleves, with help of study notes and aids and the ability to read several versions of the Bible, people can see what the real message is.
I would just let you get on with it, but like all cults only you do things right dont you. You only read the correct Bible and everyone else must follow your cult leaders and read King James, otherwise if people do not read King James, well we have our salvation questioned and by reading another Bible we are condemning our souls and following Satan.
This is the rubbish that I object to and is dangerous and miss-leading which will drive people into bondage.
I do not see Satan behind NIV or anything else, I see Satan behind King James Only Cult, as forcing people to read a Bible which is difficult for them to understand will just make them give up and not bother reading Gods Word.
We have tons of denominations in the world. We have had division in the church since the bible was first published. We have post tribbers, pre tribbers, futurists, preterists, some whacko in Florida who thinks he is Jesus, Benny Hinn, and the Westboro baptist church...... Yet you're biggest concern is satan is deceiving many because of the lack capitalization of two words?
Elizabeth,
If I am catching what he is really saying if taken to the end result is that none of the new translations will point to Jesus,that He is the way the truth and the life,our desperate need of a savior,that Jesus is the Christ,who died and rose from the dead on the third day. That all the new translations will keep us from God,because they are Satanic versions. Somehow that the new translations don't point to Jesus deity,but somehow remove that from Him. That the new translations are NOT God's Words. To be a two edged sword,to teach us God's ways,and anyone who uses them are deceived and do not have the truth. And it is impossible for those using them to come to the truth using those versions because they are Satanic versions.
Seriously though how many people are going to read those passages and think "oh Jesus is satan therefore I will cant be bothered being a Christian so i will follow satan instead"? People come to Christ through belief and listening to other believers, then receiving the HOly Spirit, I dont know of anyone who has read the Bible first and become a Christian, that is the argument of atheists.
The perceived changes are so no existent and buried that they do not register with anyone. As I said before, if we were only told we could use one version of the Bible, then yes deliberate changes could be made without us knowing, but the changes are not "hidden", as we have shown many times, the changes King James Only cult are concerned over are actually pointed out in NIV study bible etc, so they are not actually hiding anything, there is no Satanic agenda, its all in thier head. The minor points about nose rings are conveniently overlooked,
I will remind people again, a house with a flawed foundation can not stand for long, King James Only Cult has flawed foundations. They will tell you that 1+1 =4, then ignore that hiccup and tell you they can teach you advanced mathematics, anyone taking that offer up knowing they can not get the basics right, will be foolish.
I have also had the question "if all Bibles are Satans Bibles, then why does the Holy Spirit allow me to use them?" go ignored and not answered.
The perceived changes are so no existent and buried that they do not register with anyone. As I said before, if we were only told we could use one version of the Bible, then yes deliberate changes could be made without us knowing, but the changes are not "hidden", as we have shown many times, the changes King James Only cult are concerned over are actually pointed out in NIV study bible etc, so they are not actually hiding anything, there is no Satanic agenda, its all in thier head. The minor points about nose rings are conveniently overlooked,
I will remind people again, a house with a flawed foundation can not stand for long, King James Only Cult has flawed foundations. They will tell you that 1+1 =4, then ignore that hiccup and tell you they can teach you advanced mathematics, anyone taking that offer up knowing they can not get the basics right, will be foolish.
I have also had the question "if all Bibles are Satans Bibles, then why does the Holy Spirit allow me to use them?" go ignored and not answered.
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Just food for thought for you, take it or leave it, All in love to you, for your growth as being God's child through Christ
Actually it sounds as if he was or is mesmerized, which is the case in many circumstances,
For as I see it God is our teacher in the Holy Ghost, who lives in us and sheds God's love abroad in and thorough us if we are a willing participant in the miraculous gift of God to us through his Son Christ
[h=3]Hebrews 8:10-13[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The above new covenant is what we are in today, and God is just waiting for us to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the work of self efforts, and respond to him bt what he has already done for us
Hebrews 10:17
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more
After the cross this has taken place, just not all believe that it is done, and go out and work their tails off, being stressed out as the Israelites were having to sacrifice year after year reminding them of their sin and never having their consciences purged, as what Christ's last sacrifice and last shedding of blood was for
Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
From what I have seen, our worship services are missing the above scripture, in that Christ came to take sin away first from his Father's vantage point, then he is able to present us to Father as blameless, and we see we are forgiven past tense 100% so we then can receive new life in the Spirit of God via the resurrection, here and now in God's Spirit, and thus walk in God's Spirit one day at a time
Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just some food for thought about the deception of the enemy, that has gotten most of us to take our eyes off of Christ.
The enemy can careless what we do, go to Church, feed the homeless, do all the good we can possibly do as long as God is not getting the credit, we end up like the Pharisees, worshipping with our lips, and our hearts being far from God. Oh yes we may praise God, but are we really worshipping God or just using God to fleece the flock, to get what we want here and now.
Was not Satan, an Angel, that deceived one third of the angels of God, that wanted all the Glory? Did not God create all?
So was Satan who fell and cast to earth an angel of light? Where did he get all his deceptive power?
Was not his name Lucifer? At one time was he not a part of God, but chose to be the leader over God? And to me having free choice proves that God does just love me.
What else is there? I made my Choice to believe and trust God, knowing God will teach me truth, and I will respond as I have already, whether I use this or that Bible or no Bible at all. God is for me and all that believe, and God is our teacher
Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Just some food here for you for thought, about what Christ said about if his name is preached to leave them alone. Is Christ preached, in all these demonic translations as you see it and show by the different versions?
Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
Luke 11:18
If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Matthew 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
[h=3]Philippians 1:15-19[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
So thank you for your thoughts and showing us to be aware, yet watch out for contention that is now beginning to cause.
Proverbs 13:10
Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.
Proverbs 17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.
Proverbs 18:6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
Proverbs 18:19 A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.
1 Corinthians 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR, DO WE NOT ALL BELIEVE THIS?
1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
So shall we not all be careful here and trust our heavenly Father who has accepted us, and died for us and rose again for us too!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you really think that the KJV is God and God breathed, not man written? Christ is preached as all other translations are as well, and anyone that belongs to God, God is able to make them stand no matter what version they might read, true or false?
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Are we not here to edify one another, and not cause divisions? The division only one is Flesh and blood against the Spirit of God, yes?
Please think about what is possibly being caused here and repent from this dogma, please and love your neighbor as Christ has already loved you, before you and I were ever born here on earth
It seems to me we are straining out a gnat and missing out on the Love of God given to us, being like the Pharisees were, taking a magnifying glass and being possibly destroyed by the letter. Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
So let us not then follow along and
Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Agricola, again, this is something you are just going to need to pray to the Lord on. Because it doesn't seem like you are even beginning to realize the true issue being discussed here. The real issue of the Bible Version Debate is whether or not we have a perfect Final Written Authority that is the real issue here. When you have multiple versions ( about 233+ out there) and they all contradict each other, that leads to utter confusion and doubt as to the authenticity of the word of God.
If you and anyone else want to continue to use the modern versions, then that is your choice. You can do that, but don't expect to grow spiritually as you ought.
What we King James Bible believers question is the salvation of those who know about the Bible Version Issue and yet constantly attack the King James Bible. I know that I for one, question anyone's salvation who would attack God's perfect word after being shown the truth of the Bible Version Issue. If a person has the Holy Spirit living in them, that person will not be attacking God's perfect word.
Now there are a lot of people who use the modern versions ignorantly. Okay? I was one of those Christians who once used an NLT and then an NIV but again I did not know any better until I was shown the truth. I allude to Bryan Denlinger's Testimony a a lot, because I can relate to him. Before being shown the Bible Version Issue, he used an NIV for 15 years. But he used it out of ignorance, at the time he just didn't know any better.
But again Agricola, the real issue is whether or not we have a perfect Bible today. All 233+ English translations that are out on the market today cannot all be God's word. They all do not say the same thing.
God is not the author of confusion.
In fact, in a week or two I am going to be sharing a video which Bryan Denlinger did on the sin of blaspheming the word of God. And one of the main causes for the atheists, evolutionists, and Muslims for attacking and blaspheming God's holy word is because of the multiple, contradicting bible versions that are on the market today.
The new version promoters who have bought into the Alexandrian lie believe that no translation can be perfect or inspired. Well, what I can say is that if there is no perfect Bible today then we are all in trouble. Because if all bibles have errors and there is not one that is the perfect and inspired word of God, then how do we now know that John 3:16 is not in error? or how do we know that 1 John 2:25 is not in error?
So one thing you need to ask yourself Agricola is whether or not you truly believe that the Bible is God's perfect, inerrant and inspired word.
Because God's true word will not and cannot contain any errors in it. For God cannot lie.
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; - Titus 1:2 (Holy Bible)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (Holy Bible)
Elizabeth, my biggest concern is over the Final Written Authority. The attack on the Holy Bible is the greatest from Satan that it has ever been. No where in History can it be said that there was as much confusion back then as there is today as a result of all the modern bible versions that all differ with each other in hundreds of places.
The issue here Elizabeth as I told Agricola, is the issue over Final Authority. A Perfect Book that is the ultimate standard for every Christian to live by.
Without God's perfect word, we are all lost. We need to have a perfect Standard to be submissive to. Without a perfect Bible, we all would be left up to our own feelings and preferences as to what is right and wrong. And whenever we lean on our own preferences in regard to what is truth, it always leads to sin. Always. That's why we must have a perfect Bible that is our Final Written Authority.
What I showed Sarah in regard to the NIV not capitalizing morning star in 2 Peter 1:19 and Revelation 2:28 is that the NIV makes no distinction between Satan and Jesus.
In Isaiah 14:12, morning star is not capitalized in the NIV, but wait, it is not capitalized in 2 Peter 1:19 either!! So that must mean that according to the NIV, the one who fell from heaven in Isaiah 14:12, is the one who arises in our hearts?! Can't you all see the utter blasphemy which the NIV commits?
The point Sarah was trying to make was that because morning star is capitalized in Revelation 22:16, that the NIV must be making a distinction between Jesus and Satan. But what I said to Sarah was; if that were truly the case, then the NIV would have also capitalized morning star in 2 Peter 1:19 and also Revelation 2:28. Look at the sequence here in the NIV. And just see how confusing it is.
Isaiah 14:12
New International Version (NIV)
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
2 Peter 1:19
New International Version (NIV)
19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
Revelation 2:28-29
New International Version (NIV)
28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Revelation 22:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
So why didn't the NIV also capitalize morning star in 2 Peter 1:19?
Because obviously the one who arises in our hearts in 2 Peter 1:19 is the Lord Jesus Christ.
So if the NIV wanted to be consistent and truly make a distinction between our Lord Jesus Christ and Satan, then they would have capitalized morning star also in 2 Peter 1:19. It is that simple. And that was the point I was making to Sarah; showing her that the NIV does not make a distinction between the Lord Jesus Christ and Satan, but in fact, makes them one and the same!!
Chosen,
You keep leaving out Revelation 22
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
You leave the fact in this that Jesus uses a descriptive adjective before Morning Star. In the verse from both Job and Isaiah that adjective is not used (It's a qualifier)
Two you have to take the verses OUT OF CONTEXT to prove your point. Context will tell you what is meant by the word. When the Bible talks about a serpent is it a snake or Satan?
Morning star in the Bible has multiple meanings and if you take it out of context you will end up in a wrong place. It can mean a star or planet,angels,a specific angel,or it is a title that Jesus uses.
2 Peter 1
19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
You're trying to force that verse to say Jesus.
Revelation 2
26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[b]—just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
That passage is speaking of authority. Doesn't the Bible also say we will RULE OVER ANGELS?
You're trying to force that passage to make it say that it's Jesus. We are not going to have authority over Jesus so what authority is Jesus speaking about? That is the context of that verse.