The U.S. National Cathedral Rings Its Bells In Celebration Of Homosexual Marriage.

[didymos]

By the way you said it came across as if that is what you were saying. This is what you said



By what you said it was implied that God didn't say homosexual acts were wrong.

Nope, you just read that into what I 'said.' I made a few comments about how the Bible is translated and how it should be read, nothing more. I just don't like translations that were strongly inspired by the (political) agenda of its translators. God's Word should speak for itself, I believe, and not be distorted by any agenda, be it conservative or liberal.

 

[megaman125]

Why do I never hear that it should be illegal and punishable to call anyone 'father' except for God (Matthew 23:9)?

That passage doesn't fobid calling our biological dad "father." The Bible is not against that.

Why do I never hear that being drunk should be illegal and punishable (Ephesians 5:18)?

Actually, it is illegal, in this country anyways. It just usually isn't punished/enforced as much. But if you'd like to test that, get super drunk and walk down the street in broad daylight, find a cop, and he'll pull you over.

Why do I never hear that judging other people should be illegal?

Jesus told us to judge righteously. (John 7:24) He didn't tell us to walk around dumb and gullible unable to make informed decisions. Here's a simple example. Should we give a known drug adddict money? Answer: no. "But that's judging him, waaaaa." That's being wise, you know you don't give a drug addict money because he would only go and spend it on drugs. That's not helping anyone.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

terminallyCapricious, actually pederasty and statutory sexual relations sometimes are consensual in the modern world. They certainly were in ancient Greece when the adolescent boy or girl wasn't forced at all to engage in the practice and it was illegal to force them to but legal if they chose to and the adult involved was required by law to attend their education and financial betterment.

But it is still sexual immorality nonetheless and in modern times in Western countries very much illegal.

 

[Nautilus]

That passage doesn't fobid calling our biological dad "father." The Bible is not against that.



Actually, it is illegal, in this country anyways. It just usually isn't punished/enforced as much. But if you'd like to test that, get super drunk and walk down the street in broad daylight, find a cop, and he'll pull you over.



Jesus told us to judge righteously. (John 7:24) He didn't tell us to walk around dumb and gullible unable to make informed decisions. Here's a simple example. Should we give a known drug adddict money? Answer: no. "But that's judging him, waaaaa." That's being wise, you know you don't give a drug addict money because he would only go and spend it on drugs. That's not helping anyone.

Its not illegal to be drunk. Its illegal to be drunk in public. There is a difference. No cop is going to bust into your house here and arrest you for being drunk.

 

[Elizabeth619]

If you look at the literal interpretation of the Bible, of course gay marriage is not the right thing. But I have never understood why gay marriage is more or less the only thing (perhaps abortion as well) the only issue that is attacked by conservatives. Why do I barely hear that divorce should be illegal? Why do I never hear that there should be a law mandating people to turn their other cheek when they get punched in the face? Why do I never hear that it should be illegal and punishable to call anyone 'father' except for God (Matthew 23:9)? Why do I never hear that being drunk should be illegal and punishable (Ephesians 5:18)? Why do I never hear that judging other people should be illegal?

And these are only teachings from the New Testament.

If you live according to all of them and you try to fight for those rules as much as the one opposing gay marriage, I've got respect for that. If you do not, then please read Matthew 7:5: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

You're only hearing about hosexuality in this thread because this thread is about homosexuality. Not divorce. Not turning the other cheek etc.
like
I said to another in this thread, if it bothers you that this topic is discussed then dont enter the conversation.

Btw, divorce and marriage, adultery, formication is discussed often on CC.

 

[Aerendyl]

You're only hearing about hosexuality in this thread because this thread is about homosexuality. Not divorce. Not turning the other cheek etc.
like
I said to another in this thread, if it bothers you that this topic is discussed then dont enter the conversation.

Btw, divorce and marriage, adultery, formication is discussed often on CC.

I wasn't referring to this topic but about life in general; politics; sermons; day-to-day chat. I have never heard a presidential candidate fighting for any of the examples I gave.

And yes, divorce is often discussed here, but I rarely hear anyone saying that it should be illegal.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Amended for clarity: But it is still sexual immorality nonetheless and in modern times in Western countries very much illegal as it SHOULD be!

The liberal progressives are already out to make sex between humans and animals legal. Sex with children will most likely follow at some future date.

Normalizing Bestiality at Yale | National Review Online

 

[terminallyCapricious]

If you sick of religious people and what they say then why are you on a Religious forum? Don't get me wrong I
Am happy you're here, but if you don't like the Christian perspective and it upsets you then why even carry on a conversation about it with Christians? Why enter a thread that obviously speaks against homosexuality if you don't like what we say?

You are willfully continuing on with a conversation that you admit frustrates you. Why intentionally talk about this if you get mad about it?
If I don't like a thread I don't type in it.

Oh, I made a post recently about the reason I was here despite being non-religious, and it's a little long so in summary--
I'm here because I wanted to learn more about Christianity from actual Christians without having to attend a church.
Besides, I grew up religious and went to church until I was 15 (though I dropped out of the faith at 13) so I had heard plenty of times outside of Christian forum that homosexuality is wrong because my church liked to tell me that a lot because they had their suspicions about me.
I'm not blaming all of Christianity for this, not at all because I know you're not all the same, but I want to address that when I was at the Gay Pride Parade in Los Angeles a few weeks ago that there were a lot of protestors surrounding the parade holding up signs that read "God abhors you" and chanting various Bible verses. So even in a place that is supposed to be considered a safe haven for gay people, there were people there protesting how unaccepted by them we were, which wasn't very cool.

I made the mistake just once in my time here of defending my views on the creation of the world and I learned from that experience that it is not my place to say such things and I have apologised for doing that and never did it again.

However, on more personal things such as my homosexuality, I have had people here start up conversations with me and they'd go quite nicely and amicably until they found out I was gay, at which point they had started being very hostile towards me just for that one trivial fact. It was frustrating and I thought for a few days at one point if it was a good idea to let people here know that I was gay. And I had carefully decided that while it was not necessarily a *good* idea, I believed that it would be helpful to me to see what people say about it, knowing full well that those things would not be very nice, and I was right. It wasn't something I wanted to be right about, but I was quite disappointed that people--who are all genuinely kind and loving at their core--could think such things.

I'm not entirely sure if my wilfully continuing such a frustration conversation is for the sake of you or for the sake of people like myself everywhere, but all I can say is I know what I'm doing and I do not dislike any of you for what you say about homosexuality because they're just opinions, but I hope you will perhaps take something from what I am saying and consider being a little kinder to people who are different from you, not just me but anyone you meet.

 

[megaman125]

Its not illegal to be drunk. Its illegal to be drunk in public. There is a difference. No cop is going to bust into your house here and arrest you for being drunk.

So now you're moving the bar. First you claim it's not illegal to be drunk, then after showing a case where it is illegal to be drunk, you use the typical dishonest and underhanded tactic of moving the bar to "it's not illegal to be drunk in your house," instead of admitting you were shown to be in error.

 

[megaman125]

However, on more personal things such as my homosexuality, I have had people here start up conversations with me and they'd go quite nicely and amicably until they found out I was gay, at which point they had started being very hostile towards me just for that one trivial fact. It was frustrating and I thought for a few days at one point if it was a good idea to let people here know that I was gay. And I had carefully decided that while it was not necessarily a *good* idea, I believed that it would be helpful to me to see what people say about it, knowing full well that those things would not be very nice, and I was right. It wasn't something I wanted to be right about, but I was quite disappointed that people--who are all genuinely kind and loving at their core--could think such things.

That's interesting. I was in a Christian chat room, when someone came in and instantly accused us of hating homosexuals, not knowing anything about us other than that we were Christians. The conversation went something like this:

Q: So being a Christian means you hate homosexuals, right?
A: No.


“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34-35


There is no clause in here that says we don’t have to love homosexuals. The Bible also says this:


If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
1 John 4:20


Again, there’s no clause in here saying we can hate gay people. Anyone claiming to love God but hate gay people is lying to you according to 1 John 4:20.


Q: But what about God, doesn’t He hate homosexuals?

A: Again, no.


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16


“For God so loved the world…” there’s no clause in there that says “except for homosexuals.” The Bible says God loves everyone, which would include the homosexuals.


This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:3-4


God desires all people to be saved, it doesn’t say “all people, except the homosexuals.”


Q: But isn’t homosexuality a sin according to the Bible?

A:


If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Leviticus 20:13


The Bible also says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). So yes, homosexuality is a sin. Keep in mind though that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), homosexuality isn’t the only sin. The Bible states that breaking one law is the same as breaking them all (James 2:10). What these passages do is put us all on an equal level as sinners. Therefore, one person cannot boast for not commiting sin X but yet commits sin Y.


Most importantly, remember John 8:1-11, which is about how the Pharisees were going to stone a woman to death for prostitution. Then Jesus said, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” (John 8:7). Jesus then forgave the woman of her sins, and told her to go and sin no more.


Q: So I can’t be gay and be a Christian?

A: Often when I have this discussion with someone, the conversation will go similar to above, and then I’ll be asked this question in the middle of the conversation. At this point, I don’t like the way this question is worded. To me, it almost sounds like this is the question that’s being asked:


“Do I have to stop being gay BEFORE I can become a Christian?”

Absolutely not, nothing could be further from the truth. God accepts you the way that you are, and He loves you enough to not want to leave you that way.


All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 6:37


but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8

Q: Well, what about after I become a Christian? Can I continue a life of homosexuality?

A: Recall from the Gospel Message page that all sin separates us from God, and in order to break down these barriers you need to repent of your sins. Repenting involves not just confessing your sins and asking for forgiveness, but making an honest attempt to turn away from your sins. Also, in John 8:1-11 remember Jesus' words to the prostitute after forgiving her of har sins. Jesus told her to go and sin no more. There’s no fooling God here, because God knows your heart (1 Samuel 16:7). But you don’t have to depend on your strength alone to overcome sin, because our own strength is often not enough. That’s why we have Christ to help us through our trials and temptations.



Q: Why is homosexuality a sin anyways? It’s not hurting anyone else.

A: It is true that homosexuality isn’t a sin against other people the way rape and murder are sins against others. Homosexuality (and sexual sin in general) is a sin against your own body.


Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
1 Corinthians 6:18


God didn’t design us to be homosexual, and I believe God has bigger and better plans for those who are homosexual. But first you must take that first step towards God.

Therefore say to them, Thus declares the Lord of hosts: Return to me, says the Lord of hosts, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts.

Homosexuality
Zechariah 1:3

 

[terminallyCapricious]

Wait, that was really interesting, actually :O
I love how the first few verses kind of excuse each other. I don't mean that in a bad way! Like, I mean excusing more like explaining rather than pardoning.
I don't agree with the last bit but I really liked learning about those verses. Thanks, man.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Amazing job megaman125. You get an A. I love this part:

“Do I have to stop being gay BEFORE I can become a Christian?”

Absolutely not, nothing could be further from the truth. God accepts you the way that you are, and He loves you enough to not want to leave you that way.

That's exactly right. I've never been a homosexual but I have definitely struggled with my own stuff. When I am struggling God tells me, "I know what you do and I love you anyway."

I've gotten a lot healthier over the years as I've won battles over many things but I'm not perfect. So the world will continue to call me a hypocrite as soon as they find out I'm a Christian and I'll continue to listen to God tell me "I love you anyways. Keep going."

 

[Nautilus]

So now you're moving the bar. First you claim it's not illegal to be drunk, then after showing a case where it is illegal to be drunk, you use the typical dishonest and underhanded tactic of moving the bar to "it's not illegal to be drunk in your house," instead of admitting you were shown to be in error.

No you sai it was illegal to be drunk which is false. There is not a law against being drunk no more tha there is a law against being naked. There is a law against being drunk in certain places. Notice the emphasis is on the location not on the action. Same with nudity its illegality is dependent on the location not on the action.

 

[megaman125]

No you sai it was illegal to be drunk which is false. There is not a law against being drunk no more tha there is a law against being naked. There is a law against being drunk in certain places. Notice the emphasis is on the location not on the action. Same with nudity its illegality is dependent on the location not on the action.

Hey, let me try that with some of your copy/paste.

No you said it was never illegal to be drunk which is false. There is a law against being drunk in certain places. Notice the emphasis is on the location not on the action. Same with nudity its illegality is dependent on the location not on the action.

So in conclusion, there are instances where it's illegal to be drunk, and it is based on the action, not the location. It's not illegal to be sober in public, but it is illegal to be drunk in public. See, the location alone is not the problem, as you're claiming it is.

 

[zone]

In Africa, Obama lauds democracy but urges progress on gay rights

In Africa, Obama lauds democracy but urges progress on gay rights | Reuters

 

[DragonSlayer]

In Africa, Obama lauds democracy but urges progress on gay rights

In Africa, Obama lauds democracy but urges progress on gay rights | Reuters

No way ! So sodomite brainwashing propaganda would be forced in Africa too ? That's a wordless tragedy !

 

[Elizabeth619]

Oh, I made a post recently about the reason I was here despite being non-religious, and it's a little long so in summary--
I'm here because I wanted to learn more about Christianity from actual Christians without having to attend a church.
Besides, I grew up religious and went to church until I was 15 (though I dropped out of the faith at 13) so I had heard plenty of times outside of Christian forum that homosexuality is wrong because my church liked to tell me that a lot because they had their suspicions about me.
I'm not blaming all of Christianity for this, not at all because I know you're not all the same, but I want to address that when I was at the Gay Pride Parade in Los Angeles a few weeks ago that there were a lot of protestors surrounding the parade holding up signs that read "God abhors you" and chanting various Bible verses. So even in a place that is supposed to be considered a safe haven for gay people, there were people there protesting how unaccepted by them we were, which wasn't very cool.

I made the mistake just once in my time here of defending my views on the creation of the world and I learned from that experience that it is not my place to say such things and I have apologised for doing that and never did it again.

However, on more personal things such as my homosexuality, I have had people here start up conversations with me and they'd go quite nicely and amicably until they found out I was gay, at which point they had started being very hostile towards me just for that one trivial fact. It was frustrating and I thought for a few days at one point if it was a good idea to let people here know that I was gay. And I had carefully decided that while it was not necessarily a *good* idea, I believed that it would be helpful to me to see what people say about it, knowing full well that those things would not be very nice, and I was right. It wasn't something I wanted to be right about, but I was quite disappointed that people--who are all genuinely kind and loving at their core--could think such things.

I'm not entirely sure if my wilfully continuing such a frustration conversation is for the sake of you or for the sake of people like myself everywhere, but all I can say is I know what I'm doing and I do not dislike any of you for what you say about homosexuality because they're just opinions, but I hope you will perhaps take something from what I am saying and consider being a little kinder to people who are different from you, not just me but anyone you meet.

Never worry about what other Christians say. We are not the ones who give final judgement. Worry about what God says.
There are so many different interpretations of the scriptures and you and I both know people pervert the bible to fit their lifestyle.
I have a friend who ended up rejecting God because her husband used the bible as an excuse to beat her. He said he was doing Gods will. That's a prime example of people perverting Gods word. So it's best for you to search for your answers and not lean on others understanding.

Now, just because we speak against homosexuality doesn't mean we hate you. We are no better than you. We are all human. We have strengths, weaknesses and we also sin.
I certainly don't hate you. I don't even know you. I don't think you're a bad person, and you seem to be a very loving and caring individual. These are all admirable qualities.
But these qualities don't make is perfect and sin free. I do not agree with homosexuality. I do see where the bible says it is wrong. I also see where it is forgivable as well.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Is that all you have to say to me?
Do you know me at all? No, you do not. Therefore, you cannot say whether or not I've read the Bible.
Since you don't know me, let me tell you a bit about myself. I grew up Seventh-Day Adventist Christian. My entire family except for my uncle is religious. I went to Christian school from grades 4-9. I went to church every weekend since I was born until age 15. Up until age 12, I believed homosexuality was wrong and that homosexuals were amongst murderers, adulterers, drunkards, etc. and would not be allowed into heaven because that is what my schools and my church taught me. In grade 9, I was one of the many people who tormented the only openly gay student in our school just for being gay. We told him that it was wrong. That he was going to hell and that it didn't even matter he was a Christian just like we were. I was among the many people who were committed to letting him know that his homosexuality was not accepted by us nor his and our religion. Since I didn't want to be a stupid bully, I re-read the Bible looking for all the verses that supported our words against this student.
This whole time, I knew I was not straight. But I knew it was wrong, so I denied it in myself. When I was 18 I knew for sure that I was gay. And I looked back on what I had done when I was younger and realised that it was wrong, regardless of whether it was utilizing God's word or not.
Some of examples of the verses I had found:
In Leviticus I remember two verses. I'll paraphrase...
Man shall not lie with man as they may lie with a woman. It is an abomination.
If a man has lied with another man, they shall be put to death.
I remember the story of Sodom and Gomorrah but I didn't consider them to have anything to do with homosexuality, but rather, lack of hospitality. Sodom and Gomorrah fell because hospitality was illegal because the people were greedy and thought outsiders would take advantage of them. And when they found out Lot was taking in two outsiders, they send guards to rape them not because they were gay, but because they saw rape and domination fit as punishments. And I was only in grade 9 for goodness sake. If a child can recognise that, why can't adults?
In the New Testament, I remember homosexuality being one of the things listed as those that cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

When I was little, my favourite books of the Bible were Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. I thought Solomon was brilliant. Sometimes I think he still is.
I regularly read parts of the Bible today, even while no longer being a Christian because I want to be educated and I want to know what I am talking about.

I can't explain to you my opinions on why I don't interpret these verses the same way as you because you will only disagree with them. But the point of this reply is so that you may understand that you don't know anything about me. And that I may encourage you to think twice before making assumptions about me or anyone else, for that matter.

It was rather saddening, reading about what you did to the young lad. I hope some day you will repent of that.

Replying in bulk rather than in parts. To reply in parts would require re-arranging stuff.

The fact that you had an upringing familiar with religion really doesn't matter in this issue. The Seventh Day Adventism is cultic, but beside that point whether or not you at one time were immersed in the environment doesn't matter. A person can easily be raised in an environment, especially religious one's where it has no real bearing on the person. Maybe for a short time, as with you, but this is nothing more than a culture. Sure, you believed homosexual sin was just that, sin. Before I was a Christian, I believed certain things were wrong.


You say you have read the bible, and again I contend that you have not. Youre eyes may have met the pages, you may have thought about what your eyes digested. You never read it though, you never understood it. If you had, you would have repented then, just as you would be repenting now.

1 Cor. 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[jimmydiggs]

LMCS and other orthodox and faithful Pastors (according to Chris Rosebrough/Al Mohler) are already making plans for how they will deal with the coming legal requirement to marry homosexuals.

They have determined their only recourse will be to perform NO marriages.

They will advise their congregants to be married by a Justice of the Peace, then the Church will celebrate with a Matrimonial Service.

we'll see what happens.

I would probably stop getting state issue certificates after a certain point. Why would you want the states blessing for something it is so antagonistic toward?

 

[Nautilus]

Hey, let me try that with some of your copy/paste.

No you said it was never illegal to be drunk which is false. There is a law against being drunk in certain places. Notice the emphasis is on the location not on the action. Same with nudity its illegality is dependent on the location not on the action.

So in conclusion, there are instances where it's illegal to be drunk, and it is based on the action, not the location. It's not illegal to be sober in public, but it is illegal to be drunk in public. See, the location alone is not the problem, as you're claiming it is.

well then in that case it is only illegal to be drunk sometimes, not a blanket illegality as you originally stated. Certain actions in certain locations. which gives us both about 50% correctness