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Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
The Lord Jesus Christ came precisely for this reason.
The Lord Jesus leads us into paths of righteousness.
The law given because of transgression causes you to see your transgression. It doesn't cause righteousness. It doesn't cause love. But in some circumstances it causes people to cry out to their Saviour. It causes some to seek mercy and forgiveness.
When we have found this grace we don't then abandon it in favor of our trying to be morally good by our own fleshly power.
We stay in this Grace and leading of the Spirit.
If you don't believe the Lord has fulfilled the Law then I can see how you would so vehemently declare we are all still under it. And yet you are still wrong.
Was He just kidding when He said come to me and I will give you rest? Did He really mean just rest from sacrificing poor bulls and goats?
Galatians 5:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
When our Lord said "It is finished," it has always been taught He finished delivering the Good News and fulfilled all that was written about Him. If you wish to join the revisionist theologians in this "interpretations," I cannot stop you, however there is no manner you will convince anyone that He was speaking of only the law. He came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it. And when He taught this, He said not to teach against the law. To say "It is finished" is to be interpreted the law is destroyed is not only wrong, it is an affront to God.
When I went to the trouble of giving you many of Christ's teachings on the commandments and the law, you never answered to the post. I reposte, no reply. Now you come back with a partial quote and out of context..........and you expect me to take you seriously as one who considers the Word in heart, mind and soul. Forgive me, but you are not serious.[QUOTE=Grandpa;1096266]
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
The Lord Jesus Christ came precisely for this reason.
The Lord Jesus leads us into paths of righteousness.
The law given because of transgression causes you to see your transgression. It doesn't cause righteousness. It doesn't cause love. But in some circumstances it causes people to cry out to their Saviour. It causes some to seek mercy and forgiveness.
When we have found this grace we don't then abandon it in favor of our trying to be morally good by our own fleshly power.
We stay in this Grace and leading of the Spirit.
If you don't believe the Lord has fulfilled the Law then I can see how you would so vehemently declare we are all still under it. And yet you are still wrong.
Was He just kidding when He said come to me and I will give you rest? Did He really mean just rest from sacrificing poor bulls and goats?
Galatians 5:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.[/QUOTE]
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
The Lord Jesus Christ came precisely for this reason.
The Lord Jesus leads us into paths of righteousness.
The law given because of transgression causes you to see your transgression. It doesn't cause righteousness. It doesn't cause love. But in some circumstances it causes people to cry out to their Saviour. It causes some to seek mercy and forgiveness.
When we have found this grace we don't then abandon it in favor of our trying to be morally good by our own fleshly power.
We stay in this Grace and leading of the Spirit.
If you don't believe the Lord has fulfilled the Law then I can see how you would so vehemently declare we are all still under it. And yet you are still wrong.
Was He just kidding when He said come to me and I will give you rest? Did He really mean just rest from sacrificing poor bulls and goats?
Galatians 5:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.[/QUOTE]
What people fail to understand is that all of the Bible is still relevant. If we want to deny the law, we are right because we are looking at it through the eyes of the flesh. If we endorse the law, and believe in the salvation of Jesus Christ, we are seeing the law as Spiritual and good as Paul describes it. The argument then comes from whether we are of a carnal mind, or a Spiritual mind, and then it becomes a personal attack for the ones that see the law as Spiritual. If believers endorse the law, then the ones that don't endorse it sound as if they are condemning them as being in the flesh, and the works of the flesh. In the other direction the ones who deny the law feel condemned because they are labeled as having a non-repentant heart. There would be agreement on all counts if they both saw the Word of God (all of it, no less or no more than the rest of Gods Word) through the Spiritual eyes that the Bible clearly endorses.
1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (KJV)
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
So, you have the right to deny the Mosaic Law through the capability of “choice” which God gave us, but the question remains: what is the purpose of denying the law? There is only one reason – you can’t see, or don’t want to see, the spiritual reality of it. Further, if anyone endorses the law in the flesh, they are not walking in the Spirit either. Think about the caul and the kidneys burnt on the altar of sacrifice in the Old Testament. They represent nothing else but the exception of what the soul of man digests through the ways of the world. See the point that the law endorses spiritually? Those things weren’t destroyed on the altar once – it was a scheduled statute, day after day, week after week, depending on the sin because it was a peace offering. I will submit one more scripture reference so you can understand where I am coming from.
Philippians 4:8-9 (KJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (KJV)
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
So, you have the right to deny the Mosaic Law through the capability of “choice” which God gave us, but the question remains: what is the purpose of denying the law? There is only one reason – you can’t see, or don’t want to see, the spiritual reality of it. Further, if anyone endorses the law in the flesh, they are not walking in the Spirit either. Think about the caul and the kidneys burnt on the altar of sacrifice in the Old Testament. They represent nothing else but the exception of what the soul of man digests through the ways of the world. See the point that the law endorses spiritually? Those things weren’t destroyed on the altar once – it was a scheduled statute, day after day, week after week, depending on the sin because it was a peace offering. I will submit one more scripture reference so you can understand where I am coming from.
Philippians 4:8-9 (KJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
E
Yes, the animal skin is the first.
So tell me, Did God cover their nakedenss because they obeyed God, Or because they trusted God first??
all OF THE LAW IS THE SCHOOLMASTER. The MORAL LAW proves to us, WE HAVE FAILED and NEED THE SACRIFICE to begin with.
without the moral law. We would not know we have sinned and fall short. and would never seek Christ.
The moral law also gives man no excuse (rom 1) because we can not lie and say we never sinned are not rightly judged.
So tell me, Did God cover their nakedenss because they obeyed God, Or because they trusted God first??
all OF THE LAW IS THE SCHOOLMASTER. The MORAL LAW proves to us, WE HAVE FAILED and NEED THE SACRIFICE to begin with.
without the moral law. We would not know we have sinned and fall short. and would never seek Christ.
The moral law also gives man no excuse (rom 1) because we can not lie and say we never sinned are not rightly judged.
This really isn't complicated.
We abide in Christ. He is our provision. He is our Righteousness. We accept His Grace.
If we go back to working at the law we are condemned. Thats what the ministry of condemnation does. It condemns. It was given because of transgression.
But there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. Its because He has made us clean.
We didn't make ourselves clean by trying to keeping commandments by our own flesh and will. So after we come to Him why would we go back to that?
Galatians 5:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
We abide in Christ. He is our provision. He is our Righteousness. We accept His Grace.
If we go back to working at the law we are condemned. Thats what the ministry of condemnation does. It condemns. It was given because of transgression.
But there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. Its because He has made us clean.
We didn't make ourselves clean by trying to keeping commandments by our own flesh and will. So after we come to Him why would we go back to that?
Galatians 5:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
S
[/QUOTE]
Ok in saying all this ....I believe Jesus was the ultimate blood atonement by which our sins are forgiven, so when people try to live by the commandments and the commandments ONLY they are in error, the commandments are still in place but we are forgiven our sins through Christ. therefore no longer are we under the curse of trying to live by them and them only. Am I making sense or am I in error?
Ok in saying all this ....I believe Jesus was the ultimate blood atonement by which our sins are forgiven, so when people try to live by the commandments and the commandments ONLY they are in error, the commandments are still in place but we are forgiven our sins through Christ. therefore no longer are we under the curse of trying to live by them and them only. Am I making sense or am I in error?
If it is truly finished, you and I missed salvation...Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. So is this finished? Were we left behind in an eternal manner? We're just done for? Help me out here, please explain.
And that is exactly what we have been saying. The Law is still in effect, but Christ came to extend grace...The unearned, undeserved pardon and forgiveness for breaking the Law. There is a camp here that espouses the idea the Law no longer applies. If that is the case, then we do not need a Savior, What is He to save us from? Sin is, after all, the breaking of the Law...
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And after we are forgiven, what is the instruction Christ gives...
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
*Edit* Man I fouled that one up by the numbers.
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E
No, then I would (as some claim) be teaching licentiousness.
The question we must ask ourselves is this.
1. Do these people have true faith which comes from true repentance (the answer would be no)
2. Can a person be saved who has no faith and has not repented.? the answer is again no.
then we must ask ourselves another question.
Is not perfect obedience the only way to be saved by law? If perfect obedience is required, then how could we EVER obey good enough to earn eternal life?? If I can never earn it, then why are people preaching we MUST obey to be saved? When we CAN"T fullfill the law, even after we are saved.
Those who have TRUE faith and repetnance, WILL show a changed life. Will obey Gods commands (though not perfect) and will feel it when they mess up.. So they ARE the people who Obey God because they love him..it is nt a question of will they.. Because they WILL!!
The question we must ask ourselves is this.
1. Do these people have true faith which comes from true repentance (the answer would be no)
2. Can a person be saved who has no faith and has not repented.? the answer is again no.
then we must ask ourselves another question.
Is not perfect obedience the only way to be saved by law? If perfect obedience is required, then how could we EVER obey good enough to earn eternal life?? If I can never earn it, then why are people preaching we MUST obey to be saved? When we CAN"T fullfill the law, even after we are saved.
Those who have TRUE faith and repetnance, WILL show a changed life. Will obey Gods commands (though not perfect) and will feel it when they mess up.. So they ARE the people who Obey God because they love him..it is nt a question of will they.. Because they WILL!!